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46

Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Here's today's crackpot theroy from GameFAQs.

« on: December 19, 2004, 08:28:37 pm »

When Crono and company walked up to Son of Sun, it initiated battle with them, and they were forced to defend themselves. It's clearly a case of self defense. It's not like they walked up to SoS, and began stabbing at it. Lots of monsters in the CT game just talk to you and shoot the breeze. SoS just decided to be unfriendly. I guess. (yeah, that sounds good..heh... >_> )

Whew. At first for a moment there, I had thought that our beloved heros had gone and harmed a monster who was minding his own business. Man, it's weird, at first I didn't remember what fully happens at that part (it has been a long time since I've played CT and CC and sadly I don't have them anymore... ). But when I read your post, I clearly remember Crono and company running up and having the Son of Sun jump out and initiate battle with them first, and they were the one's who fought out of self defense.

47

Other Topics and the Prerelease / Zeal Dungeon (CTP)

« on: December 19, 2004, 08:24:39 pm »

What the hell?! It does look like something that would be in Illusion of Gaia!! I vaguely remember IoG and that does look familiar to a dungeon in IoG.

Question though. Zeal Kingdom has a dungeon? I don't ever recall being in a place that looks like that in Chrono Trigger, let alone Zeal Palace.

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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Here's today's crackpot theroy from GameFAQs.

« on: December 19, 2004, 08:15:57 pm »

Dude, that guy is fucking stupid. I didn't even bother to read all of his new theories that Hopeful Death posted. First off, when I read the first one, it went over my head. I don't even remember it because it was ludicrous.

For one, on the back of the CD case for Chrono Cross, it says that it's a sequel to Chrono Trigger.

Chrono Cross was the result of Lavos' demise in 1999 A.D. so there would be a peaceful future and for there to be a Time Crash to occur. And because of that, El Nido exists too so there could be a Chrono Cross story. So I don't know what that guy is talking about when he is trying to explain how CC isn't the sequel to CT. It was Crono and company's actions that eventually had the events in Chrono Cross occur. Think about it; Crono and co. kills Lavos, future is peaceful, Frozen Flame is discovered and is researched upon in Chronopolis, Frozen Flame is activated and the Time Crash occurs, Chronopolis is sent back in time to 7600 B.C. because it was hurled 10,000 years into the past, the Planet sends Dinopolis back from another dimension (Reptite's Dimension, where the Reptites killed off the humans and shit), they battle, Chronopolis wins, Fate uses the power of the Frozen Flame to break down the Dragon God into six lesser entity's, Fate seals them away and creates El Nido among other things (Records of Fate, etc), and the people of Chronopolis have their memories erased and they start new lives in the artificial archipelago that is now El Nido, and in 1020 A.D. we have the Chrono Cross story. Now, if any of this information is wrong then please feel free to correct me. My whole point was that CC is a sequel to CT because the events in CC occurred because of the actions of Crono and company in CT.

Radical Dreamers is the sequel to Chrono Trigger, and Chrono Cross is the remake of said sequel.

What more can we all say to obviously further prove that this person is full of shit when he says that CC is not a sequel to CT? I rest my case.

About the Son of Sun:

Well, when you think about it, there really is no justification for Crono and company's actions to just go and kill the Son of Sun. He didn't do anything to them except fight back when you initiate battle with him, and that isn't a bad thing either. You could say that the Moonstone, once the Sunstone, belonged in Zeal. However, Zeal fell and they are long gone, and this was in the bleak future, way after that. Nobody owned that stone anymore. You could say that they needed that stone, to recharge it, and make weapons to help Crono and company in their quest to defeat Lavos, a great Evil that must be stopped. However, the Son of Sun didn't have to die. So you do have a point there.

49

Magic, Elements, and Technology / Spekkio...

« on: December 18, 2004, 05:25:30 pm »

Now, when the Gurus and Janus were thrown into portals at the Ocean Palace, they popped out from Truce Canyon, Medina Village, Bangor Dome, and the End of Time... at exactly the same locations than the Entity's Gates that Crono can use. Crono and Gaspar entered the End of Time from the same spot (well, approximately since there are 9 Gates), but when Crono comes there is a ground which was not there when Gaspar arrived. So Gaspar most probably created it, and thus Spekkio should also be part of his creation.

Very true. I highly doubt Spekkio was already there when Gaspar arrived.

50

History, Locations, and Artifacts / Tower of Geddon - COMPANY 2400 - Arris Dome

« on: December 12, 2004, 01:55:13 am »

From reading these two posts, I came up with something. So correct me if I am wrong in my post.

I'm guessing there was a company who worked at Geddon Tower, in Arris Dome, in the year 2400 A.D. that was called Company 2400.

As for who says, "I love you so much. That is why I sometimes desire to smash you to bits!!!"

That was indeed Fate. In a way it was Serge's father but at the same time it wasn't, and all at the same time it is Fate. Let me just explain to lessen the confusion I may have caused.

Wazuki was Lynx, and Lynx was a physical representation of Fate. Remember how Lynx says that he is in a way, Fate? Or something like that, and then sinks into the ground when he was Dark Serge, and then you battle Fate? Well that's what I mean about Wazuki, being Lynx, who was ultimately Fate. See, you could say it was Serge's father who said it but his memory was erased and he became Lynx, who was the physical representation of Fate. So now you can also say it was Fate.

So ultimately, even though Lynx was once physically Wazuki, who lost his memory, and was a physical representation of Fate after being transformed, it was really Fate.

That's why I think it was Fate.

51

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Two questions and an observation about Kid.

« on: December 12, 2004, 01:20:00 am »

I always thought you could read those panels more than once. I might be wrong since it has been a long time since I've played Chrono Cross. If you can only read that panel once though, you could skip it (since it isn't required to read to advance further in the game) and come back to it later when you have Kid in your party, and read it with her in your group.

About the Cybots looking and acting like Gato:

Queen Zeal, the Mammon Machine, and the Black Omen were all part of Lavos. Lavos copied the DNA from every living creature on the planet, and I think the planet itself. I'm guessing the Black Omen also did the same, by copying the DNA of every living creature. So, because of this, the Cybots look like Gato. I also agree with Peaceman's theory on getting info from Lucca and finding out about Gato.

About the disappearance of the ghosts in Chronopolis after Fate's demise:

I'm guessing that Fate had something to do with the ghosts and monsters in Chronopolis, one way or another. Notice how, when you kill Fate, and go back to Chronopolis, you don't see any of the ghosts or any monsters? Well, with Fate gone, they ceased to live. Fate had something to do with them all one way or another. Seeing as how Fate had main control over Chronopolis too.

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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Questions about Lynx

« on: December 12, 2004, 12:38:46 am »

From what it sounds like, only Schala was freed and everything started over when the timeline was reordered. Wazuki was already Lynx before Serge even starts out on his adventure. Fate was still around too because Fate was responsible for what happened to Wazuki. Chronopolis was thrown back in time due to the time crash, and even with the timeline reordered, this would have still happened and Fate was in Chronopolis. I am also assuming that the timeline that was reordered was the the one where the events in Chrono Cross occurred.

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Magic, Elements, and Technology / Spekkio...

« on: December 12, 2004, 12:13:33 am »

When was the last time Square mentioned anything to help explain part of a game?

Exactly. And to answer your question, to my knowledge, I don't think Square ever has mentioned anything to help explain part of a game.

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Reality, Real-World Connections, and the Supernatural / Dreams and Reality in the Chrono Series

« on: December 12, 2004, 12:11:28 am »

Not dreams, but memories. The events happen in the memories of the Entity. This is what the party sees, but it is also their current reality.

What if this is the dream of the Entity? Nothing states that it was or wasn't.

-Melchior's dreams are embodied into Masa and Mune.

I have never took this as literal...but I suppose you could...

Maybe you don't take it as literal, but it obviously seems like others do. Nothing states that Melchior was or wasn't being literal.

-A theory claims that Spekkio is Gaspar's dream.

I don't believe this theory as it uses the previous quote as a way to prove it...

And if they were switched, it would have made no difference. Nothing specifically states that this was or wasn't true.

-Doreen says she might be the dream of a dream of a dream etc.

She says a bunch of crap that's mostly to just get you thinking about the way Zeal and the people think...She's no more a dream of a dream than she is a bowling ball.

But how do you know this for certain? Nothing specifically states that Doreen was or was not the dream of a dream of a dream of a dream etc etc.

-During the campfire scene, Lucca's dream of going back in time to save her mother's legs was fulfilled in reality.

Just because someone awakens during the night, that does not make the following event a dream sequence. She actually does that.

That's exactly what the quote says. Lucca regretted the fact that her mother was crippled. I'm sure Lucca would have wanted to of prevented that from ever happening. Mayhaps her dream or wish or whatever you want to call it, was so that her mother wasn't crippled. And yes, you are right, she actually does it by fulfilling her dream or wish of not having her mother crippled.

-Robo (even though he is a robot), kept preciously a seed in his circuits while replanting Fiona's forest, and was then able to create a "Green Dream".

For one, it wasn't a seed...wasn't it dew or something which he kept under pressure for 200 years?

Regardless of what it was, he was able to create a "Green Dream". I personally forget what it was, and these quotes are not my quotes. I already said they were taken from another forum, so I'll add that all of these quotes are not mine to begin with. And he kept it under pressure for 400 years, not 200. From 600 A.D. to 1000 A.D., and even though Robo was done replanting Fiona's forest in the Present or any time prior to the Present, he still had it kept under pressure in his circuits.

-In RD, Serge(s)'s adventure(s) sound(s) just like a huge dream repeating itself.

Actually, it's all a part of a journal featuring different dimensions more than it is any kind of dream...

But how do you know that all physical existence in any dimension or time was just a dream?


Again, the quotes that I posted previously in my first post, in this thread, are not my quotes, and were taken from another forum that I frequent. So please do not mistake any of these quotes to be mine. This is just in case anybody might have thought that they were.

55

Magic, Elements, and Technology / Spekkio...

« on: December 11, 2004, 11:46:20 pm »

Actually, no Nu says that. It's in a book in one of the hidden parts of Zeal. I believe that it's most believed to be the works of Belthasar...or Gaspar? I dunno...

It is in one of Belthasar's books. "All life begins with Nu, and ends with Nu. This is the truth, this is my belief, for now.."

I'm not sure if that is the exact quote but I do know that the first sentence is right and how it was his belief for the time being.

I've never believed that Melchior was being literal when he said that about Masa & Mune...

But that is what you believe, just as some of us believe that he was being literal. For all we know, he could have been. I have yet to hear Square announce or mention that Melchior was or wasn't being literal.

Also, we could also take into consideration that the End of Time is not an actual era. However, I heard that time passes while you're there, so if this is true, then it could be considered an era...yet by the looks of it, existence already destroyed itself one way or another, and ended.

I have yet to hear Square announce or mention that Spekkio was or wasn't the dream of Gaspar. He can use magic, he knows about Zeal Palace, him and Gaspar have some connection. Maybe Spekkio was already there and Gasper told him about Zeal and they formed a connection (like a friendship or something), but that doesn't explain where he gets his magic from. Maybe Spekkio is an actual god? I have yet to hear Square announce or mention that he was or wasn't, so it is a possibility. I still stand by how Spekkio is the dream of Gaspar unless Square said that he wasn't or there was obvious evidence that clearly made it certain that he wasn't.

56

Reality, Real-World Connections, and the Supernatural / Dreams and Reality in the Chrono Series

« on: December 09, 2004, 08:57:55 pm »

These quotes are from another forum that I go to. I wanted to make a thread about the dreams and reality in the Chrono Series.

What parts in the Chrono series were dreams or reality??

Dreams can be both dreams and reality in the Chrono world.

That sounds like the entire Chrono series was just a dream. Was it all just a dream? Was there any sliver of reality there??

...dreams and reality cross themselves in the Chrono world.

What does that mean? Now it sounds like there are more dreams put in with the reality? I am so confused...

In the series, everything is capable of dreaming... And all these dreams influence the time-space more or less:
-A CC song is called "The Dream That Time Is Dreaming".
-Belthasar's notebook in Zeal states humanity first became conscious thanks to a red rock which made them able to dream (Dreamstone).
-The Frozen Flame fulfilled humanity's dream of intelligence by evolving them faster.
-Melchior's dreams are embodied into Masa and Mune.
-A theory claims that Spekkio is Gaspar's dream.
-Doreen says she might be the dream of a dream of a dream etc.
-According to the Japanese game, the event at the Millenial Fair is a "dream" (see my previous post on the chapter titles) (Crono does dream of waking up in his house with Marle instead of his mom, after the first battle with Magus, before waking up in Ayla's hut "for real").
-During the campfire scene, Lucca's dream of going back in time to save her mother's legs was fulfilled in reality.
-Robo (even though he is a robot), kept preciously a seed in his circuits while replanting Fiona's forest, and was then able to create a "Green Dream".
-The Black Dragon's dream, in Another Marbule, materializes into the ghostly Lagoonates, in Home Marbule.
-The sleeping Acacia Dragoon, in Viper's Manor, materialized into Turnip, at Hermit's Hide-Away (what's more in the other dimension if I remember well).
-FATE's dream of reincarnating into a living species (that's what Marle says) made her possess Wazuki and turn him into Lynx.
-In RD, Schala's dream of not having destroyed Zeal, in 12,000 B.C., made her reincarnate into the innocent Kid, in 10xx A.D., thanks to the Frozen Flame.
-In RD, Serge(s)'s adventure(s) sound(s) just like a huge dream repeating itself.
-In CC, Kid's dream about Lucca's orphanage traps her into that event while her body is left unconscious.
-Schala says that living beings "are also perhaps nothing more than a dream dreamt by the planet before it is born."
-And many other stuff I forgot.

Some of these dreams aren't dreamt by living beings (time, the CT adventure, Robo, FATE, the Planet, etc.), yet they are there and influence reality, even in the past, the future, near, or far in space or time. The Planet's Dream could very well be...the Planet's one then.

But when did the actual reality occur? Yet more dreams?? I'm begining to think that everything was a dream..

-Belthasar's notebook in Zeal states humanity first became conscious thanks to a Red Rock which made them able to dream (Dreamstone).

So if humanity becomes conscious, making them able to dream, was reality ocurring before humanity picked up the Red Rock? Or was it humanity being able to create thier own dreams within more dreams? Or was it humanity waking up and being able to dream? Or something totally different?

And then you have Doreen who is the dream of a dream of a dream of a dream, etc etc....and how she seems to come from out of no where at random times, hence, her being able to transport in Enhasa and come out of no where when Masa and Mune talk in CC.... What is that all about?

You also have Spekkio's Origin too. I don't know where my thread went, might have been deleted by me. But..

A theory claims that Spekkio is Gaspar's dream.

..that can be another clue to Spekkio's Origin. He knows about magic, knew about Zeal Palace, him and Gaspar obviously have some connection.



Hopefully somebody can enlighten me on this matter. I am curious to know the answers to my questions and find out what events and parts in the Chrono series were indeed a dream or reality?

57

Magic, Elements, and Technology / Spekkio...

« on: December 08, 2004, 04:20:58 pm »

I agree with Chrono'99. I was going to theorize that Spekkio is Gaspar's dream. Just like Masa and Mune are the dreams of Melchior.