Messages

31

Reality, Real-World Connections, and the Supernatural / Dreams and Reality in the Chrono Series

« on: December 25, 2004, 09:32:03 pm »

For all we know, everything we knew in the Chrono series and in its existence, it could all just be some dream.

Let's not go there. (SO3 SPOILERS) Players of Star Ocean 3 were, in general, outraged to find out that the universe for the series was an artificial creation (even within the game). It takes away a lot of the meaning if you acknowledge within the game that it's fake (unless this is a breaking-the-fourth-wall joke like in Secret of Evermore). From the perspective of the real world, of course it's a dream. Within the game, it should be real.

I know what you're saying and anyone who can agree. We don't want it to be a dream, heck, I don't want it to be a dream either. But when I look at those quotes and kind of look at things..it made me think. Nobody in the other forum could answer my question about if the whole existence of the Chrono series was a dream or if maybe even parts of it were just dreams. That's why I brought it to the attention of you all. And you never know, it could be a dream, and I'm not saying it is, but it could be...we never know. Even parts of it could be merely dreams.

That was all very interesting, but wouldn't it be very anticlimatical if it were all a dream? I mean, Crono dies, gets resurrected, and defeats Lavos, all so that he can save the future. Then, we find out that it was all a dream and the future is still bleak. If the game was really like that, I know I wouldn't love CT as much as I do now!

I wanted to quote you at an earlier date, so I'll quote you now. I wanted to add that, while I agree with you and all, all of those events and memories could all be just a dream, or a dream of a dream etc, or parts of it could be a dream. I'm not saying it is or isn't..but, I'm not entirely sure if it's true or not.

Personally, I want everything in the Chrono series to have really happened and to be resolved someday in a possible new game. I was just taking some things into consideration.

32

History, Locations, and Artifacts / Tower of Geddon - COMPANY 2400 - Arris Dome

« on: December 25, 2004, 09:19:53 pm »

Yeah, but that quote occurs right after the battle with Miguel, nowhere near the battle with Lynx/FATE...I'm just confused as to how it could be FATE when it doesn't appear to be anywhere near anything around there...

Hmm. If I remember correctly, it occurred before the destruction of the Dead Sea, so it could revert back that part of the Sea of Eden without all of those ruins and such that had formed the Dead Sea. Maybe Fate was still somehow active in Home World and thus wanted to destroy that part of itself and all that became the Dead Sea, since it wanted the Frozen Flame destroyed in that dimension. I think the Frozen Flame was destroyed in that dimension. I think there were two since it long existed before the split between the timelines. No wait..that would mean there's only one, I think. Ahh! Okay, if there were two, then Fate had destroyed the Dead Sea to get rid of that one but if there's only one that's in Another World, then Fate just destroyed the Dead Sea and probably did it to maybe try and eliminate Serge or something. Please correct me if I'm wrong because I have horribly confused myself here..

As to how Fate could have done it. I think Fate might have still been partially active in Home World..but then again I'm not entirely sure. Maybe since Fate was able to scatter the six lesser beings of the once whole Dragon God on islands and have one set of three remain in one dimension while the other set were placed in the Home World dimension, maybe Fate was also able to destroy the Dead Sea from Another World since Fate seems to have some control over the dragons, including the ones that are in another dimension.

Also, when you enter the Tower, your party members (may) say that it looks like two buildings have been mooshed together...I simply assumed (after seeing the Arris Dome quote) that it was one part Company 2400 & one part Arris Dome...

I don't personally know anything about this. I was just giving my opinion and was trying to answer your questions from the first post.

33

Reality, Real-World Connections, and the Supernatural / Dreams and Reality in the Chrono Series

« on: December 25, 2004, 08:56:27 pm »

Oh, sorry about that dude. My apologies.

Well, in the 200 Year Reunion, it's assumed that what the party (Crono & Co.) saw were the memories of the Entity which was dying and in doing so was trying to show them something important in order to save their world. I was just stating my opinion (of course).

Well, it was really the 400 Year Reunion, unless it said somewhere it was the 200 Year Reunion and I missed it. But you do bring up an interesting point there. If it was the Entity's memories, these events would have to of happened in real life and not just a dream..but, you can never be sure. For all we know, everything we knew in the Chrono series and in its existence, it could all just be some dream.

Well, I was just trying to show that it's also possible that it isn't literal, that some people do not believe Melchior was being literal...I wasn't attacking anything personally dude-a-mong-o (what? I like the word-thingy!).

Same as above...

Sorry about that. Yeah, I see what you mean. Melchior could have been both literal or not literal about Masa and Mune and the sword being made from his dreams, or something like that. But Spekkio's existence seems suspicious..but maybe that's just me, I don't know.

Again, I don't know for certain, but she also says plenty of other things which she obviously is not...Or something...I mean, she ponders whether or not she is a plate of sashami as well...So if you accept that she is actually a dream of a dream, you must also accept she must be equally be a bowling ball...

You do have a point there. But, who knows, maybe if she is a dream of a dream etc, maybe she dreamt herself up as these things?? Just a thought.

Maybe I misread you then...But just to add, a lot of people believe that the Entity created this portal for her specifically...Others believe it was her own will that created it...The latter just seems less likely, if you ask me...

The former would seem to make sense. The Entity was responsible for the creation of most of the portals while Lavos' immense energy/power was responsible for a few others. The Entity could have made that Red Time Gate for Lucca so she could go and save her mom. Hmm, wow, I can't really see anything to add to this. It's possible the Entity could have done it, or the theory of how her dream influenced it or something like that..

For that one, I was just adding my own two-cents really...And again, I'm not attacking anything you or whoever you're quoting says, just providing alternate views...Don't take it as personal offence to you or something.

Oh, it's cool. I was probably uptight or something, but no worries.

You've lost me on this one...What do you mean?

What I mean by that, is everything. Dimensions, universes, planets, the Entity, humanity, life, the whole physical existence of everything that is and ever will be, EVERYTHING. Not yelling or anything, just trying to show you what I mean. And I mean all of this and all of what's beyond the universe and multi universes, etc etc. All the timelines. Everything. Everything that exists that hasn't passed on to the spiritual realm after death. Perhaps all of existence was just merely a dream of the Entity or whoever/whatever??

34

General Discussion / About the official Continuation of the series

« on: December 25, 2004, 01:37:44 am »

Yeah, pretty much most of what I was going to say has already been posted.

Square (I call 'em Square) had the rights to the titles of Chrono Break in the U.S. and Chrono Brake in Japan. Later, however, Square had given up the rights to the title of Chrono Break in the U.S. but still hold on to the rights of the title of Chrono Brake in Japan. There are absolutely no other Chrono titles that Square have rights to except for Chrono Brake in Japan. There has absolutely been no further news on Chrono Brake to my knowledge, but Square still keeps the rights to the title of Chrono Brake in Japan. This still means that they are at least thinking of making a new Chrono game to add to the series.

I noticed that CT for the SNES was made in 1995, RD for whatever system was made after CT around that time, CT for the PSX was made in 1999, and that CC was made in 1999 as well. Whether or not that these are exact years, notice the distance between the years of these game's being released. That amount of time has been exceeded so I had theorized that mayhaps they will release it sometime soon? Of course, I highly doubt that my theory is correct in any way and that the distance in years has nothing to do with when a game will be released, but it was something to merely think about. Also, as was already stated, Square could be waiting for the newest system (PS3 perhaps?) to come out so they could start making the game and such. I don't personally know but we can always hope since Square continues to hold the rights to the title of Chrono Brake in Japan.

I personally hope that Chrono Brake, if released, will answer all the questions that the series (mostly CC) has left us with, will fill in ALL the plotholes and mysteries that we have discovered, will involve Janus without a doubt, will perhaps tie in CC with CT a lot more, and conclude the series as a whole. And I hope that this will be a damn good game for such a great series and for such a long wait.

I would also like to add that I am glad, to my knowledge, that Square has scraped ALL other Chrono projects that include the 3D Chrono game, Chrono for PSP, etc etc. We do NOT need any of these remakes and such, what we need is Chrono Brake.

There's my two cents, and if any of the information that I have posted is incorrect, feel free to correct me anytime.

35

History, Locations, and Artifacts / The Frozen Flame

« on: December 24, 2004, 10:36:21 pm »

Personally, it sounds like the Frozen Flame had splintered off of Lavos upon impact of the Earth by accident. Think about it, did Lavos plan on having a part of himself splinter off upon impact of a foreign planet, with the sole purpose of achieving the perfect state of evolution, and producing spawns to repeat the cycle? Lavos just wanted to, in my opinion, find a planet, use all the DNA/data/etc etc on it and achieve its perfect or more perfect state of evolution, create spawns to pass these "genes" on to, destroy the said planet, and have the spawns depart the ruined planet and continue the process but in a more perfect state of evolution. I do not think that the Frozen Flame's existence (I say existence because it became existent after splintering off from its original source and becoming its own being/substance/whatever) was intended. I'm sure that Lavos, upon discovering the said piece of itself (the Frozen Flame), that it either wanted to merge back with a part of its self or destroy that piece for what ever reason. Schala was just unfortunate enough to somehow get involved in the Darkness Beyond Time because of the whole incident with the black (time)gates during the Ocean Palace incident. And Belthasar discovered Schala's involvement with the Frozen Flame and then we get into this whole mess with the Time Crash and shit. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

I also do not believe that the Frozen Flame was created by the Big Bang or any involvement in the Big Bang because somewhere in the game or its script, it says that the Frozen Flame was a piece that splintered off of Lavos upon impact of the Earth. And personally, I think Lavos was either one of many spawns from another Lavos or Lavos himself came from a distant planet where many of its own kind exist. Heck, their main planet might have rotted because Lavos tends to act like a parasite and the planet could have been a parasitic planet full of parasitic beings of Lavos' kind. This is all opinionated and if any information on here is incorrect, feel free to correct me any time.

Belthasar Sequence in Terra Tower . . .

Belthasar: Oh, my name is Belthasar... In the ancient, magical Kingdom of Zeal, I was known as a Sage of Reason... Well, that was up until the Queen of Zeal attempted to harness the power of Lavos... Let's just say, things got out of control and Lavos created a dimensional vortex that threw me far into the future! There, I seized the oppurtunity to study the science of the future... I was then able to apply to that the knowledge I brought from my own era, including magic, which was long lost in the future. Anyway, this led me to make huge progress in the research of time. Well, that researched to the creation of Chronopolis and to the Time Crash... You might think I really blew it, but perhaps it was really my finest hour! Ho-ho-hoh... Anyway... I created a compact time machine that I dubbed the "Neo Epoch." I used it to time warp to this age to learn of Chronopolis and FATE's plans, and to see how things were turning out.

Belthasar: Terra Tower is really a city of the Reptites from another dimension's future... It was originally "Dinopolis"... The castle of Azala's descendants, who achieved an evolution much more intimate with our planet. Dinopolis was drawn into this dimension's past about ten thousand years ago... This was done so that it would serve as a counter-balance against Chronopolis, which Lavos pulled here.

Belthasar: Needless to say, a fierce battle ensued... In the end, Chronopolis emerged as the victor, and the Reptite's fortress was sealed away by FATE... But more important now is the role the Dragons play in all of this... Originally, the whole Archipelago of El Nido was known as the Sea of Eden. This was because it was where the Dragon Gods resided. But then FATE sealed away the Dragon Gods' powers, in effect becoming a god itself. Thus the islands where the new godhead, FATE, existed came to be called the Sea of Eden instead. Perhaps you didn't realize it, but you were used by the Dragon Gods to eliminate FATE! It was not true that the Dragon Gods sealed away the Frozen Flame... Rather, it's quite the opposite... It was FATE that used the power of the Flame to seal up the Dragon Gods. In reality, the Dragon Gods are in opposition to man, while FATE itself was actually the protector of humanity! The Dragon Gods were originally a singular plasma life-form... ...A living accumulation of the planet's energy! Originally it was a biological machine used to control the powers of nature in the future society of the Reptites. In order to control the natural energy itself, FATE divided the one Dragon God entity up into six weaker plasma life-forms... Then scattered them across the land and sealed them away. Their dragon-like appearances are just pseudo-guises... ...Temporary forms they take so that they can appear in this dimension. But all that changed when FATE was vanquished and its powerhold was eliminated! At that moment, the seven Dragons who had been rendered almost powerless and forgotten... traveled across the dimensions to reunite into a single entity!

Party Member: Seven Dragons? I thought there were only six!?

Belthasar: There were six Dragons you knew of and one more hidden Dragon you didn't... Like the second moon that once was lost, but later found... Although the same planet, my world didn't have two moons! Look up at the night sky and you will see seven celestial bodies... Five stars and two moons... Five brother stars that correspond to the five colored Dragons, ruling like gods over the night skies... One moon that corresponds to the white Sky Dragon... And another darker, daughter moon to counterbalance them. The Fire Dragon, the Water Dragon, the Green Dragon, the Earth Dragon, the Black Dragon, the Sky Dragon, and one more... The final Dragon... The dark moon Dragon... The one who was to work to free the other Dragons from their bondage by the FATE computer... The child the others created on the night of the electric storm that temporarily caused FATE to loosen its hold on them... I believe you knew her as... Harle.

Party Member: ......!!! Unbelievable!

Belthasar: The Dragon Gods were the essence of nature on this planet... Perhaps we can consider what's happening as our planet's vengeance on us... To finally sweep away the unwanted humans from the face of the blue planet...

Party Member: First it was FATE, now it's the planet...?

Belthasar: Or vice-versa... But either way you look at it, now's the time to set things right. The future of mankind... The destiny of this planet... Everything depends on the next battle you will fight. But unfortunately the time for us to part has come...

I found this somewhere and figured that it could possibly contribute to all of this.

36

History, Locations, and Artifacts / Why does the Red Stone interact with Lavos so well?

« on: December 20, 2004, 11:55:07 pm »

I always thought that the Dreamstone's rarity was due to Zeal Palace's over excessive use of the stone. Think about it; Zeal used the Dreamstone aka the Red Rock to create many things such as the Pendant, Amulet (Janus' Amulet is made of Dreamstone last I heard), the Epoch, the Mammon Machine, Masamune, Red Knife, etc. It was used to keep the Zeal Palace Continents floating. And before that it was used as currency. Both Melchior and Gaspar mention how Dreamstone was once used as currency when you are trying to reforge the Masamune. Just talk to Gaspar when you are trying to find the Dreamstone to repair the Masamune and he'll mention it. So will Melchior when you speak to him and show him the piece of the Masamune.

I also noticed something. Lavos absorbs the Planet's energy, Dreamstone absorbs Lavos' energy, Dreamstone is from the Planet...Lavos draws the Planet's energy, Dreamstone draws Lavos' energy, Dreamstone is from the Planet....notice a circle here?

Another thing to take into consideration. The Planet is the Entity right? Well, Dreamstone came from the Planet, which means it came from the Entity right? Well, the Entity is capable of dreaming, and the Red Rock, which is the Dreamstone, gave man (humanity) the ability to Love, Hate, and Dream. Notice how Love and Hate were born and the ability to Dream all came from that Red Rock (Dreamstone) that man (humanity) found that came from the Entity (the Planet) that is also able to dream and possibly Love and Hate? If that made any sense, which I hope it did, do you guys see any connections here?

37

Other Topics and the Prerelease / Wow... (concerning CT prerelease stuff)

« on: December 20, 2004, 11:00:04 pm »

Ahh, so that was Singing Mountain. I saw that same pic of the inside of that mountain from some other site. Unfortunately this computer doesn't have sound, at least I don't think it does, so I can't really listen to them. But if I heard both songs, the unreleased battle/boss theme and the Singing Mountain theme, I would know it. It's ironic too because I haven't heard those songs for about four years, give or take some time, but I can still remember those songs like it was yesterday.

I hope it's not too much trouble, but could someone maybe post some links to where I could find these songs? I wanted to save them somewhere so whenever I am on a computer with working sound, I could listen to them. Those are truly great theme songs.

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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Psychological Disorders and Janus

« on: December 20, 2004, 08:04:54 pm »

Well, nihilism has its roots as a political philosophy. It was essentially used as an excuse for barbarism.

Hmm, well in that case, I stand corrected. I never even knew about Nihilism until I read this thread to be truthful.

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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Psychological Disorders and Janus

« on: December 20, 2004, 07:36:44 pm »

Has anyone ever considered that those who have felt displeasure, who finally achieve no feeling of displeasure or pleasure, may consider this pleasure since they aren't feeling the displeasure that they once felt? Obviously if your feeling displeasure, and you achieve the state of feeling nothing (not feeling pleasure or displeasure), that this to them may be considered pleasure. And like Hadriel said, Nihilism seems more of a behavior philosophy than a political one. That's just my thought about all of that.

As for the topic. I do believe that Janus has some sort of disorder. Whatever that disorder is, I leave that up to you all. However, it would appear that Janus would have AS because I've looked up on it. Janus does carry symptoms of AS. For instance, I read something about people who have AS who tend to have a repeating hand motion or something. I forget but if that's true, notice how Janus, as Magus, flexes his hand every time he risks casting a spell or is about to cast Dark Matter. Repeating hand motion right there. And he does seem to have some of the disorders that War mentioned. As for Janus seeking help; I highly doubt that he would.

40

Other Topics and the Prerelease / Wow... (concerning CT prerelease stuff)

« on: December 20, 2004, 07:20:51 pm »

Hmm. Well, I know for a fact that there were two unreleased songs for Chrono Trigger. One of them was a battle song, I think a boss fight or something. And the other one was a theme song for a location. It was called Sleeping Mountain or Snowing Mountain or something, if I'm correct. The website that had these two songs is unfortunately dead however. I tried going back to it after four years of discovering it but the site is gone I'm afraid. It was called Chrono Trigger Temple. The two unreleased songs were in the CT song section or whatever it was called. I don't know if this has been covered but I thought that I'd add this tid bit of information.

41

Other Topics and the Prerelease / Zeal Dungeon (CTP)

« on: December 20, 2004, 06:32:05 pm »

I have come to the conclusion that I will never understand this. I never even knew IoG was part of some larger series. Geez. What exactly was IoG about anyway? All I remember was the main character turning into another form with longer hair and better equipment, and a longer sword to boot. And how you used something for something else, blocks or something..my memory is really dull on this game. My friend had it so it was never really mine and he doesn't have it anymore and this was years ago, and I only played a little bit of it. The parts where the main character saves the princess or something, and somebody's family dies too, and I forget the rest except that the main character had some friends he talks to in the beginning. Heh, like I said though, my memory is obviously dull on the matter of IoG.

42

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Fate of Robo [Finalized]

« on: December 20, 2004, 06:20:27 pm »

I'm not saying you're wrong or anything but there's some things to consider, regarding the CT characters names. Now we know that Marle's name is Nadia Guardia and Magus' name is Janus Zeal. Robo's not human so I'll exclude him for this explaination. But what about Crono, Ayla, and Glenn? I'm more than sure that they would have at least have had last names. I mean, if Toma Levine, who is an NPC, has a full name, than I'm sure that our main characters all had full names. I just doubt that Square added them for whatever reason. I mean, what importance would Crono's last name serve in the CT adventure anyway, or even the CC adventure? However, Magus and Marle's last names served an importance because they are/were both of royalty. In CT, I'm guessing that Square didn't have a real reason to add a last name in for Lucca. But in CC, they might have added a full name since she served a more important purpose, such as creating the Promethius circuit or whatever, and then having Belthasar or whoever insert it into Fate.

43

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Fate of Robo [Finalized]

« on: December 20, 2004, 02:43:53 pm »

Personally, since Ashtear was never pronounced in CT, I think Lucca earned her last name some time between CT and CC. For acting heroically in the war of Guardia, or (at the contrary) because she provides stuff to Porre.

Note that Toma in 600AD was just called Toma and wasn't that famous, but he eventually got a particular grave at Choras cape, in which it's written "Toma Levine".

I always thought that Toma's last name was always Levine. Since, before you even do the Rainbow Shell side quest in CT, and you check out Toma's grave in 1000 A.D., it still says Toma Levine. But, if you didn't do the quest, people will just say how he failed to retrieve the Rainbow Shell, but he still has his last name. That's why I always thought that Lucca and Lucca Ashtear were the same, but her last name was never mentioned in CT like it was in CC.

44

Other Topics and the Prerelease / Zeal Dungeon (CTP)

« on: December 19, 2004, 09:48:02 pm »

Ohh okay, thanks.

It's possibly because the Zeal tileset (and the dungeon map design) is pretty generic and the style has probably been used in many games, IoG included.

Yeah, so I'm guessing that Square wanted Chrono Trigger to have its own style and shit. Makes sense really.

45

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Fate of Robo [Finalized]

« on: December 19, 2004, 09:31:40 pm »

Originally, I thought it was Robo who was deleted/terminated from Fate's system. Now, after reading this, I don't think it was Robo. Mayhaps Robo had a circuit made or something that was inserted in Fate? Remember, it was only a circuit, not his actually body. I mean, then again, Robo could have been made into a circuit but he had Atropos to live for.

Also, if Belthasar arrived in the future in 2300 A.D., how is he in 2400 A.D.? And when we say Lucca and Lucca Ashtear, this is the same person in one right? Sometimes I was getting the impression that they were two different people..