Author Topic: Magus's Weakness to the Masamune  (Read 21479 times)

Zaperking

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #90 on: March 31, 2005, 05:32:49 pm »
No one knows what the amulet is made of. Only Schala's has been proven to be one made out of DreamStone, with later a Time egg placed into it.

And don't forget that the MasaMune is dreamstone aswell, so that kinda screws it up. Dreamstone vs dreamstone?

doug_protocols

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #91 on: April 01, 2005, 10:33:09 am »
Quote from: Zaperking
No one knows what the amulet is made of. Only Schala's has been proven to be one made out of DreamStone, with later a Time egg placed into it.


OK, so they decided to put in that intricate cutscene where you see Janus receiving the amulet for no reason whatsoever.  Why not a fancy cutscene to show Taban giving Lucca the sightscope, and Crono's mom giving him the headband, and King Guardia giving Marle the ribbon?  Because the amulet is special!

Quote
And don't forget that the MasaMune is dreamstone aswell, so that kinda screws it up. Dreamstone vs dreamstone?


"OH MY GOSH our enemies are wearing steel armor, that makes our steel swords useless against them, we shall have to use iron swords instead!!!"

DUH the Masamune is dreamstone.  THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT!

Doctor Shaft

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #92 on: April 01, 2005, 01:25:05 pm »
Hm.... so you think his strength then comes primarily from the dreamstone amulet?  I mean, the whole battle kind of hinges on you lowering his magic defense with the Masamune and then nuking him back as hard as you possibly can with your own magic (at least that's what I remember).  

But of all the explanations in this thread, the dreamstone amulet seems to be the best offer.  I'm not really buying Frog's will in this matter because Frog's will waxes and wanes a lot throughout the game.  

And call me crazy, but the SECOND time you fight Magus (if you so choose), the magic drain effect of the Masamune is gone. It's just a straight fight between you and the dark wizard (Off-Topic: Magus killing his own mom is greatness!).  

And one would imagine that in that battle Frog would be furious and craving blood. So it seems then that the dreamstone theory is the strongest one.

Magus in the first battle seems to fight you in some kind of ritual format. I don't think he uses his scythe to battle you, just magic powers. And he occasionally bolsters his magic defense (I think). So perhaps he is turning to face you and uses the dreamstone in some special way to basically turn himself into a powerful magical conduit. But the Masamune has the unique ability to diminish or cancel those powers, and so you break his defense and the other team members lay it on thick.

The Masamune also reveals the entrance to Magus' lair. Perhaps another trick he performed using the amulet?

SilentMartyr

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #93 on: April 01, 2005, 02:29:21 pm »
Do you have the Masamune equipped at the second fight? I know by then you have gotten at least one upgrade from Masamune II, so if you don't reequip it then obviously wouldn't drain his power.

And that amulet theory doesn't make sense, why would something that prevents status effects allow for a drop in magic defense if the wielder is damaged by dreamstone?

Doctor Shaft

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #94 on: April 01, 2005, 04:05:56 pm »
Well, I don't know. Just throwing the idea out there.

But then again, the amulet prevents status effects when you use it normally. The first battle with Magus is kind of special in that you need the masamune to lower his defense or else you won't really be able to do much to him (that's of course from a storyine perspective... gameplay wise you could conceivably beat him without the masamune, it would just be a pain in the neck i suppose).  

Perhaps the amulet has different properties if he uses it in a deliberate manner in the battle? The second fight I don't think hitting him with Masamune lowers his defense because he's not even using the "energy field" or whatever it is he used last time to fight.

But granted, I don't know since I wasn't using masamune but some other sword that was currently "better."

Zaperking

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #95 on: April 01, 2005, 08:25:16 pm »
If no one has noticed, the amulet if plotline.

Janus: Schala!!

Schala: Oh, you're back Janus!  Is something wrong?

Janus: The black wind...

Schala: You feel it too?  Don't worry, it'll be alright.  Now, hold onto this.

Janus: What is it?

Schala: It's a kind of amulet.  If something should happen, it'll protect
you.  I wish I could be with you always... But mother has other plans.

Janus: She's NOT our mother.  She looks like a mother, but inside she has
changed.

Schala: ......  Still I can't... Janus, I'm sorry.

^
If you haven't noticed, Schala wants Janus to be protected so that's why she gave him an amulet. It is even stated in the game that only 1 amulet was ever made out of the "same red rock" as the mammon machine and ruby knife.

V_Translanka

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #96 on: April 01, 2005, 08:53:00 pm »
And, as I bashed the Amulet being made of Dreamstone LAST time...

check out the Amulet HERE

or, here's the pic itself...



THAT's the Amulet...Doesn't look very dreamstone at all...It's just a charm that protects Magus from status effects...

Why was there a scene showing him getting it? Because it was dramatic fool! The same can be said with when Robo got the "Ribbon" from Atropos. Did the Ribbon do anything fantabulous? Not really, just upped some stats. But they made a whole scene for it! It must be speciol! Nope, just a clever bit of drama.

The giving of the Amulet showed Schala's protectiveness over Janus; it showed how close they were. It made Magus' plight that much more noble, in it's own twisted sort of way...It showed their relationship of older sister to younger brother...

Chrono'99

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #97 on: April 02, 2005, 06:41:14 am »
Quote from: Zaperking
It is even stated in the game that only 1 amulet was ever made out of the "same red rock" as the mammon machine and ruby knife.

You might be mistaking with this quote I think, which is about the Pendant not the Amulet :
Quote
[Young Man]
   Schala's pendant was made from the
   same red rock as the Mammon
   Machine.
   
   When she chants, the pendant glows.

Quote from: V_Translanka
THAT's the Amulet...Doesn't look very dreamstone at all...It's just a charm that protects Magus from status effects...

Well, in fact, items forged from Dreamstone/Red Rock are often not red at all :
   

As far as I recall, only primitive or uncompleted items made with Dreamstone keep the red color (like the Dream equipments from Prehistory, and Melchior's Red Knife).

Zaperking

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #98 on: April 02, 2005, 07:36:07 am »
Yeah, I was meaning something on the lines of that ^.^;

I'm guessing that anything that has had Lavos' energy added into it loses it's Red Dreamstone colour. This can give Magus' Amulet 2 options.

1) Magus' amulet is made out of dreamstone, charged and he was only hurt by the Masamune because he was around a gate that connected to Lavos (That means the Masamune should hurt Lavos cuz it is Dreamstone)
or
2) Magus' amulet is not Dreamstone but something like the Belthasar sealed door's that only open when Schala's pendant is used on it. (This works out because the Masamune is Dreamstone, if the amulet is something from the same metal as the sealed doors then the Masamune will have some kind of effect on it, or not)

Either way, my belief is that the amulet giving was pure drama to show how Schala knew that something bad was going to happen (black wind howling in that scene) so she decided to give him an amulet that would protect him.

BTW, what is the 2nd sword next to the thing that might be the masamune in your post Chrono'99?

Oh and on the note of Schala pendant, if it glows, i'd imagine it glowing red like in one of the Scenes with it. Maybe when it is used it's red, just like the scythe that Magus used against Lavos. It looked normal until it hit Lavos making it look red.

Chrono'99

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #99 on: April 02, 2005, 11:10:40 am »
Quote from: Zaperking
I'm guessing that anything that has had Lavos' energy added into it loses it's Red Dreamstone colour. This can give Magus' Amulet 2 options.

It may be possible, but I believe Marle's Pendant was blue/golden since the beginning of the game though, even though it was discharged.

The 2 swords are the Masamune, but the "Masamune II" is how it's mean to be after the Cyrus sidequest (I took that from the site encyclopedia). In the PSX version, that Masamune II has a small green jewel on the hilt too.

V_Translanka

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #100 on: April 02, 2005, 04:21:36 pm »
*100*

Yeah, damn, I knew there was a kink in that arguement...

Quote from: Zaperking
Magus' amulet is made out of dreamstone, charged and he was only hurt by the Masamune because he was around a gate that connected to Lavos (That means the Masamune should hurt Lavos cuz it is Dreamstone)


I don't think this works because technically  he's not really next to any gate at all...He's trying to summon Lavos, yes, but would a gate be involved in such a summoning at all? Besides the point, he never actually gets to because Crono & Co interrupt his summoning. And lastly because, the gate that we eventually see, was made by Lavos after the summoning failed because of the Crono & Co intervention.

I just don't see why the Amulet would be made of dreamstone when it's never said to be, but everything else made of dreamstone is...

Zaperking

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #101 on: April 02, 2005, 07:53:39 pm »
Just to correct myself on previous posts, Schala's pendant never had a timegg added into it. The Astral Amulet is the amulet that Lucca put a time egg into it, unless she acctually used Schala's pendant to do it, even though Lucca said that Schala gave her pendant to Kid so she would be out of harms way.

ZeaLitY

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #102 on: April 02, 2005, 08:12:50 pm »
Well, another thing to keep in mind is that the demonic Masamune of Chrono Cross is thought by some to be red because it is charged with Lavos/evil energy in general. I'm glad to see the Encyclopedia pictures coming to use. I'll buy that primitive theory:



My argument against the Amulet being made of Dreamstone is simply that the Gurus obviously had to make her a new pendant to store energy with and use to open doors and whatnot. This suggests the original amulet was incapable of holding Lavos energy; the real thing seems to just be a battery.

Akuma

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #103 on: April 03, 2005, 07:23:21 pm »
Yes, the Amulet is automatically special because it involves Schala. I mean really, it's just an amulet, just one of hundreds of items in the game. Really all the amulet does it "protect status". Quite a few items do that, including another item Magus gets, the Gloom Cape i believe. So the amulet is obsolete.

V_Translanka

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Magus's Weakness to the Masamune
« Reply #104 on: April 08, 2005, 08:29:46 pm »
Oh hey! I just noticed something about the Amulet that I never did before...And...I didn't really want to make a whole new topic just about this little blurb, so I'll mention it here since we're on the topic...

I was looking as a pic of Magus the other day (planning out the look of Kaeru in my Magness fanfic) when I noticed it!



This pic's a little better...



That damned thingy hanging from his side that I never knew what it was...I always thought it was just some wierd belt-thing...But then I remembered seeing it before!



Wow, I thought, that's crazy! It looks a hell of a lot bigger in the pics of Magus, doesn't it?