Author Topic: Crimson Echoes Task Schedule  (Read 4520 times)

Legend of the Past

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« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2005, 04:36:24 pm »
Quote from: ZeaLitY
I suppose so, but I'll explain all the instructions for it later. Everyone's going to be told to play the heck out of it and explore everything, and then report all bugs or complaints.


Well, thanks. I hope we find little to no bugs or problems, though. The game'll come out sooner, that way.

teh Schala

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« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2005, 04:57:26 pm »
Unfortunately I'm sure the first beta test will be CHOCK-FULL of bugs.  We are still learning how to use these events, after all.  The demo will probably work right if you do things exactly as you're told by characters, but the idea is to do things out of order if you can, and that's when things will start bugging and breaking.

Legend of the Past

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« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2005, 05:10:01 pm »
Quote from: Jake-A-Roonie
Unfortunately I'm sure the first beta test will be CHOCK-FULL of bugs.  We are still learning how to use these events, after all.  The demo will probably work right if you do things exactly as you're told by characters, but the idea is to do things out of order if you can, and that's when things will start bugging and breaking.


Well, yes, and to check that out we need to go everywhere, do everything and speak to everyone. I know, I just hope it'll be just a LITTLE, not a lot. That's just what I hope, though.

Shinrin

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« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2005, 12:19:46 am »
Quote from: Legend of the Past
Quote from: Jake-A-Roonie
Unfortunately I'm sure the first beta test will be CHOCK-FULL of bugs.  We are still learning how to use these events, after all.  The demo will probably work right if you do things exactly as you're told by characters, but the idea is to do things out of order if you can, and that's when things will start bugging and breaking.


Well, yes, and to check that out we need to go everywhere, do everything and speak to everyone. I know, I just hope it'll be just a LITTLE, not a lot. That's just what I hope, though.


there will be alot to do, beta testing isn't simple and some bugs you might find might not be game related since snes emulation isn't 100% perfect that of a real snes. i notice this alot in FF6 when beta testing the retranslation of it.

Lordchander

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« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2005, 06:59:56 am »
What I hope doesnt happen is a MAJOR BUG that halts the whole game progress if you get what im coming from. Personally, unless every1 cracks the code to mastering the event commands, the full version is gonna be a long way off. But Im kinda glad that way, the longer it takes, the better it will be (i.e every1 will add more stuff to the game).

Shadow_Dragon

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« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2005, 11:19:29 am »
When I was playing the small demo version, I walked into Porre Square to check it out, and got sent to the execution scene.. Those kinds of problems definitely need to be found... I know Porre Square wasn't done in the demo, but walking to the edge of a forest on the world map and getting sent from Crimson Echoes into Chrono Trigger wouldn't be fun

Ramsus

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« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2005, 11:27:22 am »
Hmm... It might be wise to set up a bug tracker.

Lordchander

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« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2005, 02:38:31 am »
Quote from: Shadow_Dragon
When I was playing the small demo version, I walked into Porre Square to check it out, and got sent to the execution scene.. Those kinds of problems definitely need to be found... I know Porre Square wasn't done in the demo, but walking to the edge of a forest on the world map and getting sent from Crimson Echoes into Chrono Trigger wouldn't be fun
 
 


That is what im worried about.

Quote from: Ramsus
Hmm... It might be wise to set up a bug tracker.


That way we can identify the bug quickly and in the long-run, get the full-version up and running.


Also, is it possible that we can just delete everything 'Chrono Trigger' and leave those rooms blank for CE development? That way we could stop the teleporting from 1 game to another problem.

PS: I dont know much about ROM hacking, just my 2 cents.

teh Schala

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« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2005, 01:07:44 pm »
In some rooms, it'd be easy to do that, but not in others.  Take Crono's room for example:

Crono's room has several objects unrelated to the party itself (Crono's mom, a poyozo doll, the cat food counter, the cats, and the clone).  Delete all those, and we're ok...  Except that various party members also have commands in their object functions that relate to Crono's mom when they come to get the clone, and Crono also has several commands in his object functions too.  Going through and deleting all these without causing the game to glitch when you walk in...is surprisingly tedious.

Lordchander

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« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2005, 03:08:28 am »
Quote from: I
I dont know much about ROM hacking, just my 2 cents.

Oswego del Fuego

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« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2005, 02:32:26 am »
Hey, Schala's sprite is going to need lots and lots of new frames.  Has anyone gotten to work on making these?  If not, I'd be happy to take that task on, if someone can provide me with a sprite sheet for what exists already.  I think I could do a pretty good job at it.  I've done a fair amount of sprites and pixel art in the past, and it's much easier working from a template, such as an existing sprite.

OdF

Darkken

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« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2005, 03:27:06 pm »
I don't recommend doing too much spriting until you get a tile editor and look at how the animations are done in Chrono Trigger.  I don't know much about ROM hacking, but unless someone can get the game to use newly inserted sprites and animate them as well, then you'd be limited to replacing the sprites from one of the existing party members.  The problem with that is you'd be constricted by that sprite's palette, the amount of tiles it uses, and the way the tiles are put together for animation.  There is a way to replace palettes in the game, but I don't know how to do that.

I've looked through the plot for this project, and so far it seems that Frog's and Ayla's sprites can be replaced.  Unfortunately, Frog is shorter and therefore uses one less tile height-wise than the other characters. You could probably only replace him with someone like Tata.  Ayla's sprites are still needed in the project, but you could probably replace an NPC with the sprites that she needs.

I've been working on Glenn's sprites and replacing Ayla with them.  I don't know how to edit the game's palettes, so I had to make Glenn's hair and cape blue.  I extended his walk animations to 6 sprites each, and I finished some of his pondering sprites. Those I've gotten into the game and they work well.  I wanted to replace the running animations next, but most of the tiles are all jumbled and I haven't been able to piece together all the frames.

Basically, it's proving difficult to get a new character to animate properly.  But I'm sure that somewhere along the way someone will be able to hack the game to animate new sprites in an easier fashion.

teh Schala

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« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2005, 03:40:03 pm »
Yeah, what he said.

However, Oswego, having those sprites couldn't hurt.  It may prove futile, but couldn't hurt. ^_^  I'll need additional sprites for Schala in my CT Flash series anyway.  And for her existing sprites, check out this page.  That site is awesome for sprites, and should prove useful to you. :)  (They don't provide any of the right-walking sprites though, as you can just "mirror" the frames in Jasc Animation Shop to get those.)

Oswego del Fuego

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« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2005, 04:39:58 pm »
Darkken:

While I have a decent education in the principles of how games work, and store and call up data and all of that, I have no firsthand technical knowledge whatsoever.  All of the issues you bring up, such as the replacing of individual animation frames and palette issues, are concerns I've had since the beginning.  However, I personally have no ability to address them.  What I CAN do is draw a very mean sprite, and it's already established that this project, one way or the other, is going to need a fully-realized Schala.  The way I look at it, I may as well help where I can, right?

Anyway, to respond to some of your specific points.  I think we've all been working off of the assumption that Ayla's sprite frames would have to be replaced by Schala's, rather than creating a new sprite sheet or expanding an existing one somehow.  By the same token, Ayla's sprite would have to then replace Schala's.  Clearly, playabe Alya's sprite sheet and non-playable Schala's are arranged in totally different ways and have totally different  numbers of frames.  Even so, from what I understand, making this switch would be possible.  Ayla would lose a majority of the frames she has now, but as a non-playable character, she's not going to need most of them.  So this should not be an insurmountable problem.

Palette conflicts are indeed a concern.  However, as you say, there is a way to switch palettes, and that would solve the problem.  I'll bet that someone here already has an idea of how to do it.  If not, we'll find somebody who does.

The Frog/Glenn situation is a lot more serious, however.  I frankly don't know of any way to expand Frog's alloted space for sprite animations.

It sounds like you've made good progress already with sprite hacking.  Probably everyone involved in the graphical or technical side of this project would be interested in seeing your work.  As to how the sprites are jumbled in how the game stores them, I feel your pain.  I've seen raw sprite sheets from Trigger and they are a mess.  I frankly don't see why they were arranged in such a counterintuitive manner, but there you go.  At any rate, I'm sure we can decipher them with enough time and effort.


Jake-A-Roonie:

If you, too, are going to need a more complete Schala sprite, I may as well go ahead and do it now.  Then, when the time comes to implement the sprite in Crimson Echoes, I can simply provide it to the actual ROM hackers and let them do their magic.

Yeah, I'll go ahead and start on it this weekend.  I'm extremely particular about my work, so it will be some time before the sprite is done.  (All the more reason to start early.)  The number of frames to draw is simply enormous.  However, it will be worth the wait.

Also, thank you for pointing out the sprite reference you linked to!  That actually should help quite a bit.  I'm also going to do a quick run-through of the Zeal portion of Trigger, just to make sure that there aren't any frames I miss.

Of course, I could just work off of the raw Schala sprite sheet provided here at the Compendium, but as Darkken points out, it's like a jigsaw puzzle.  I think it will be easier to draw the sprites manually, then apply them to Ayla's sprite sheet when the time comes.

OdF

Chickenlump

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« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2005, 04:51:31 pm »
If someone were to start a Schala Sprite Sheet, I would work off of it and contribute quite a few animation frames myself.  When the time comes to put them into place, there could be quite a bit, if not all of the animation frames ready to just 'drop in'.

I used to have a neat Schala sprite sheet myself, and quite a few people liked it, alas, I don't think I have it around anymore. :(

Some old spritework of mine. I made playable characters out of these NPC's along with portraits. This was years ago though. :)
I was proud of these at the time, they looked great in-game, especially the portraits.









Go here for an example on how to edit sprites and get their palettes correct for viewing and editing. I made this awhile back too.

http://ce.herograw.com/CL/Examples/palette.html