Author Topic: Satanism = Bad?  (Read 8688 times)

FaustWolf

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Re: Satanism = Bad?
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2008, 06:26:45 pm »
Just go with what you think is better for YOU.

Damn. I like that. It's snappy, and yet chalk-full of meaning. And maybe it's something we can all agree on?

justin3009

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Re: Satanism = Bad?
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2008, 06:34:26 pm »
Posting again but it kind of contradicts my other post.  There's nothing wrong with ANY religion, it's just how the people use it and treat others, that's what usually ends up terribly wrong.

Edit: Do people know what Satanism is?  I'm getting an idea that people think it's worshipping the devil.  If I remember correctly, it's a religion of believing in yourself and your ideals.  I'll probably add "as long as you don't hurt others on the way".
« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 06:40:52 pm by justin3009 »

MsBlack

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Re: Satanism = Bad?
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2008, 06:49:02 pm »
The thing is, no one has any right to bash religions at all.

Apart from you, it seems.

There's nothing wrong with ANY religion...

So there's 'nothing wrong with' suggesting homosexuals and women should be persecuted, for example?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 06:51:26 pm by MsBlack »

justin3009

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Re: Satanism = Bad?
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2008, 06:54:58 pm »
Besides thsoe factors, forgot about that.  I can't agree with that at all, they're still human.  And when did I bash a religion here?

Also, nice miss on the "Contradicts my other post" and "how people treat other people".  I'll say it again, it's not religion, it's the people in it.  Do I need to caps it and make it size 72 for you to see?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 07:00:26 pm by justin3009 »

FaustWolf

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Re: Satanism = Bad?
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2008, 06:59:42 pm »
MsBlack, I have to propose that that's a misuse of justin's quote, if I may. He followed that portion up with:
...it's just how the people use it and treat others, that's what usually ends up terribly wrong.

However, this ultimately leads us back to the cherrypicking conundrum. I could say that it would be wonderful to be a "consistent" Christian who doesn't persecute women and homosexuals, but then Christianity involves the Old Testament, which advocates the persecution of women and homosexuals. Plus, Jesus (in the King James version at least) claims to be the "fulfillment of the Old Testament" IIRC, which makes things even more weird because he defended a prostitute when the Old Testament specifically states in several passages that a prostittue should be stoned.

In the end, I just have to quote ZeaLitY:

God help us in a world of religion.

justin3009

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Re: Satanism = Bad?
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2008, 07:02:10 pm »
The thing I don't like about Christianity is that people believe every single word in the bible is God's word.  Do people ever think that words change over time, new things get added, the words get twisted to make it seem like others are terrible or wrong?  I'll end my statement with that.

Edit: Thank you MsBlack for proving my point of "twisting of words" (Unrelated to the bible)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 07:06:11 pm by justin3009 »

Ramsus

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Re: Satanism = Bad?
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2008, 07:13:52 pm »
I have had the unique experience of growing up without religious identity. Mine is a development almost completely untouched by scripture, ritual, churches, or any other institution or custom of religious nature.

As a teenager up until I left college, I slowly came to realize the meaninglessness of all things, whether riches or fame, and fell into an extreme apathy. It was at the height of this that I came to throw out all things that I had grown comfortable with and joined the military, with the intent that if I should have no use for my life, that I should at least let others use it for some purpose. I threw away the possibilities of the many talents, abilities, and opportunities afforded me without hesitation, for I recognized that all the benefits these things could achieve me were themselves meaningless.

It was in this frame of thought that I finally came to lose the pride and vanity that had always held me back and accept a new sort of humility. In this, I discovered that I had always possessed a true faith in humanity, left unsoiled by the sort of disillusionment that many people fall into, whether in realizing that the world their parents and society their parents had painted for them wasn't as nice as it really is (my father had always been upfront and honest about the world and life in general, to include his own experiences and mistakes), or in losing some religious faith they had been raised to never question (I had never had such a thing).

And through humility I came to question myself in a way that led me to feel a higher purpose, that I should live as a just and good man, capable of reason and unaffected by the ebbs and flows of life, ready to help my fellow man and not hold him in contempt, as this was as much nature as destiny. I came to see the gifts of reason, my natural talents and abilities, and the peculiar gifts of character chanced to me by fate as meaningful towards achieving such a purpose.

I came to realize that the past and the present were alike in that I owned neither, only the current moment mattered, and it is in the present that I should always strive to hold myself to a higher standard of character and reason, never wasting this precious moment on idle action or thought, meaningless pleasures, or pointless endeavors in pursuit of the cheap respect and admiration of others. So too did I realize that there is no good or evil in the things that befall us or what others do unto us, but rather good and evil are in the way that we respond to these things and what we constantly choose to do or even think at this present moment.

And so no longer were the hardships of life simply things to be avoided or nothing more than bad luck, but I now knew them to be opportunities to test my strength of character. So too did the positive benefits afforded me by my good fortune take on new meaning as possibilities for me to help others and find my role within the larger society of mankind. No longer would I throw out good fortune in disgust, but embrace it as my fate demanded.


As such, I live life not for seeking eternal happiness or fame and fortune, nor do I let myself fall whim to the basic desires that drive animals. Rather, I am given this single moment that is the present, and endeavor to live it with unquestionable justness and righteousness, that I should treat all honestly and fairly and with compassion and understanding, while doing all that is within my power to improve the condition of my fellow man. Beyond that, I only know what I feel to be true, and I dare not waste time putting that into words.


So don't worry about trying to place labels on yourself or finding your religious identity or some higher truth. If you should find such a thing, and know it to be true with a sincere heart, then take to it wholly and without reservation. Otherwise, know that it is in struggle that we find growth, and take it as a blessing that you have the sincerity of heart to admit doubt and not ascribe wholly to a faith that you don't feel.

In this respect, I don't judge those who would ascribe themselves wholly to any faith as either good or bad, right or wrong. Though I actively strive to take in the thoughts and experiences of others and see things from multiple perspectives, I only know what is true to me and can only question truth as others see it insofar as reason permits. Anything beyond that is a waste of time.

So is Satanism bad? It doesn't matter; I think there are more important questions to be answered and problems to be solved.

kuromadoshi

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Re: Satanism = Bad?
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2008, 07:16:06 pm »
I saw this topic and just couldn't resist throwing my own 2 cents worth in...

People seem to forget that religion is not about being right or wrong, but about faith. There is no point in having faith in something right, and there is no point in having faith in something wrong. It just doesn't work that way. Also, shame to MsBlack. It saddens me to see a supposed Catholic demote other people's beliefs. Universal unity is what religion is about, embracing your fellow man, stoping all conflict. Coexisting in a utopian society for the better of all mankind, whether they believe or not. You cannot push your faith on someone else, it is their decision alone. I think people like MsBlack lose sight of our true intensions, losing our true intentions to the aggression of making others believe what we believe. But that's just it, we do not reserve the power nor the right to sway people's belief through force. It is their right alone to believe in what they want to. And it should be our duty to accept them as human beings and treat them with respect, whether or not we agree with their views or opinions.

justin3009

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Re: Satanism = Bad?
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2008, 07:16:35 pm »
@Ramsus: Did you take that from a book?  (Sarcasm aside)  That was incredibly well written and the best thing to sum this topic up...the only problem is that someones going to miss read or ignore the post and continue a meaningless argument.  (Forum Wars...amusing).

Ramsus

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Re: Satanism = Bad?
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2008, 07:28:32 pm »
@Ramsus: Did you take that from a book?  (Sarcasm aside)  That was incredibly well written and the best thing to sum this topic up...the only problem is that someones going to miss read or ignore the post and continue a meaningless argument.  (Forum Wars...amusing).

I've found parallels in my own thoughts and conclusions with those of certain philosophers and religious figures, but I don't spend a lot of time reading philosophy, as it becomes useless beyond a point.

Many people confuse philosophy with finding truth, but really philosophy is about living life. That's why I have more respect for men like Jesus, Epictetus, and Marcus Aurelius than Seneca, and would emphasize the importance of finding in the everyday examples of those around us not just weaknesses to avoid but the very strengths that we should choose to emulate in our own lives.

It is in this way that I find my philosophy in the daily reflections of my own life and actively resolve to live it with each new day.

justin3009

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Re: Satanism = Bad?
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2008, 07:32:45 pm »
...That sounds alot like me.  If I read correctly, It's really why I have so many friends.  All of them have such unique and different personalities and ideas that somehow coincide with mine.  By doing so, I end up finding something flawed in mine that hurts people and change it for the better.  By doing so, as you said, I live up for a new day and continue existing and correcting many flawed ideas that may come up and/or exist.

FaustWolf

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Re: Satanism = Bad?
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2008, 07:33:14 pm »
*sniff* Ramsus...that was beautiful.

Kuromadoshi, I don't think MsBlack ever claimed to be a Catholic, did he? He's been very consistent throughout the religion threads as far as I can tell. If you're referring to me (who did identify as Catholic earlier) I completely agree with the whole universal harmony thing BTW.

justin3009

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Re: Satanism = Bad?
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2008, 07:37:04 pm »
When x_XTacTX_x  said he was drifting through religions and left catholicism, MsBlack said "Can you count how many things are wrong with this?"  In my head, that implied he is a catholic.

kuromadoshi

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Re: Satanism = Bad?
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2008, 07:42:08 pm »
*sniff* Ramsus...that was beautiful.

Kuromadoshi, I don't think MsBlack ever claimed to be a Catholic, did he? He's been very consistent throughout the religion threads as far as I can tell. If you're referring to me (who did identify as Catholic earlier) I completely agree with the whole universal harmony thing BTW.

my apologies, I had thought that MsBlack had said or protected the catholics somewhere in there, then judged other people's religion... But now that I've reviewed the posts, I'd have to guess MsBlack is athiest? Either way, it's not my place to assume and judge based on my assumptions and I apologize. However, I still think the aggression of his/her posts aren't necessary. As I recall in one of the original posts: 'Hah, don't make me laugh'. If I was in the original posters position this would make me feel very uncomfortable and seems to me to be a personal confronation. All in all, it just doesn't seem necessary.

FaustWolf

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Re: Satanism = Bad?
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2008, 07:44:41 pm »
Yeah, religion threads are rife with personal confrontation. But that makes the extremely rare moments in which we can all agree on something all the more joyous. However, I don't think I've yet seen such a moment...

Maybe Ramsus' post will be like the Chrono Cross, healing all dimensional problems.