Messages

31

Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Kino Confusion

« on: February 28, 2007, 07:16:59 pm »

I'm personally of the opinion that the Gate is there because of Kino's discovery instead of the other way around. As Chrono'99 said, the Gates mark important events in the planet's history.

32

Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Re: Theories and Questions on Lavos

« on: February 22, 2007, 07:10:06 pm »

Yea, but even Cthullu was malevolent, what with his intent to rip apart the known universe and such.

Lavos is clearly a malevolent creature, or atleast completely unbound by any sort of moral, ethical, or honor code. This much is undeniable. He's not some benevolent being that got shanked like the OP is trying to claim.

33

Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Guardia Royal Line Paradox

« on: February 17, 2007, 04:01:05 pm »

Except for the fact that when she is travelling back in time she is traveling to before the events of the adventure happened, so there is no need for an 'after the adventure' in this case.

No, that's not true in the slightest. If only because that means there'd be two of each party member in every time period.

OOT is different because only Link's consciousness travels through time anyway, which is a very, very, very, VERY significant difference.

34

History, Locations, and Artifacts / Re: Is the Ocean Palace Chronopolis? (plus a new look at the timeline)

« on: February 17, 2007, 03:56:26 pm »

and both senses of the word STILL apply to magic. Energy is any force that causes things to happen. Magic is a force that causes things to happen. Done. This is over.

35

Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Guardia Royal Line Paradox

« on: February 16, 2007, 06:10:43 pm »

1. I read the thread, and 2. On most forums it is not considered 'reviving' provided it is on the first page. I see nothing against posting in this this one. o.o

Nope. When you go forward in time, the time you return will have happened and be recorded presuming you do return.

Provided you return before the events have happened, there is no reason the events will be changes, as the world will go along with the normal flow of time as opposed to your personal timeline, in which it may be years that you spend traveling through time.

Trust me, I've had experience in the area of time-travel debating. I've been arguing over Zelda: Ocarina of Time for years (ugh, what a mess that timeline is).

1. This thread has been over 6 months old. It's reviving.
2. No, in CT, it doesn't assume you go back. It's a fact that's been concluded on this forum for atleast a few years.
3. You missed my point anyway
4. The Ocarina of Time can't be compared to Chrono Trigger. They have two entirelly different, contradicting systems of time travel.

36

History, Locations, and Artifacts / Re: Is the Ocean Palace Chronopolis? (plus a new look at the timeline)

« on: February 16, 2007, 06:04:32 pm »

And so, a torch, because it uses energy, is energy? Your logic is flawed.

No, but the fire that's created by that torch is, and so is the magic created from a spell. ((To say nothing of my earlier statement of everything technically being an expression of energy anyway.))

37

Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Guardia Royal Line Paradox

« on: February 15, 2007, 06:37:39 pm »

*head hits the wall* READ the thread before you post in it if you're gonna revive it after several months, for the love of god.

Time doesn't assume anything. If someone leaves their normal time period, the entire timeline assumes he never returns until he actually does. If Bob goes 7 years into the future, history says he's been missing for 7 years. If he had children in those seven years, then they wouldn't exist to greet him when he arrived in the future. However, that would be remedied once he went to his own time.

38

History, Locations, and Artifacts / Re: Is the Ocean Palace Chronopolis? (plus a new look at the timeline)

« on: February 15, 2007, 06:34:14 pm »

No, I disagree. Magic is the art of manipulating the elements. And MP is a simple gameplay function used in many, many RPGs.

And how does it manipulate them in the first place? For any movement or action at all, energy must be used. This is a fact of physics that even magic adheres to in all forms of fantasy. Whether it applies to scarcity of energy is a different matter altogether. MP is Energy in that it makes things happen at it's cost. Prove it isn't.

You can use a battery to fuel a torch. Why not use Lavos' energy to fuel a spell?

Regardless, the fact that the magic needs energy to fuel it defeats your arguement. Magic = Energy.

But Lavos energy is simply a form of energy such as heat energy, light energy etc. Now, I'm not familiar with this Matter is energy' theory of which you speak, but matter is certainly not the same type of energy as Lavos' power.

Energy can be converted. Light can become heat or kinetic energy. ALL energy can be converted into any other kind of energy. There's no "different types" because they're all the same amorphic thing. As for the Matter=energy theory, it's not so much a theory but a fact, since humankind has observed for almost a century that atoms are merely bundles of atomic energy, it's wavelength so slooooow and condensed that it "crystallized" into matter. The process can go both ways.

If you don't even know the basics about what energy is, don't go around saying what energy is or is not.

And your proof for this statement is...?

Everything I've been saying, which you haven't even been able to effectively counterargue.

Hmm... I don't really want to go into that Entity business right now.

Agreed.

39

Magic, Elements, and Technology / Re: Creation of the Masamune

« on: February 14, 2007, 06:46:06 pm »

Only a small minority considers Dalton to be the abuser of the Masamune. The general consensus is that he's DEAD, much less in the future.

40

History, Locations, and Artifacts / Re: Is the Ocean Palace Chronopolis? (plus a new look at the timeline)

« on: February 14, 2007, 06:44:33 pm »

Proof? In CT magic is manipulation of the four elements. Innates do not even need energy to use magic (as far as I've know, at least). By Innate I mean someone who can naturally use magic, by the way. Not the colours in CC.

Well, Magic is a force, and it conjures fire, lightning, etcetera and kinetically makes it move and stuff, and apparently Magic is measurable in CT. This doesn't even touch on the fact that Innates use in-game skill points to cast spells, which I would assume is like energy.

Plus there's the fact that the Zealians had to drain Lavos's energy to fuel their magic, and if magic isn't a form of energy, then we have a severe violation of the laws of thermodynamics, and Chronoverse's magic seems to work with SOME of the physical laws atleast.

The people of Zeal need energy to use magic because although they are gifted with the power to use magic, they do not possess the natural energy needed to manipulate the elements. So yeah, I see where you're coming from as all evidence shows that energy is needed to use magic, but that does not mean Magis is energy by any means.

Um...yes is does. If Energy is needed for something to function, then that function is also a form of energy. I mean, hell, even Matter is a form of energy according to modern science.

No, he is a well of energy and as such he can use that energy to use magic. Lavos is never spoken of (by citizens of Zeal, at least) as if he has magic, but he is said to have energy and power.

Energy = Power = Magic.

I think he means 'nothing that goes against the rules set down by the game itself'.

Maybe, but the point still stands. Nature is very ill-defined in Chronoverse, and the only things that can really be called "Natural" in any sense of the word without a shadow of a doubt is the Entity.

41

Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Re: Theories and Questions on Lavos

« on: February 13, 2007, 07:04:07 pm »

Plus, if the Planet's biosphere was going to recover, the Entity (if we believe it to be the Planet) wouldn't make such a big deal about Lavos messing it up.

Plus the entire outlook of the human race, the atmosphere, the music, the totally ruined barren wasteland, gives this vibe of there being absolutely no hope unless the event is undone.

42

History, Locations, and Artifacts / Re: The Summoning Circle in Magus's Castle

« on: February 13, 2007, 06:59:04 pm »

I don't see the resemblance. I think they're just supposed to be ordinary mythical creatures.

43

Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Re: Theories and Questions on Lavos

« on: February 12, 2007, 03:17:54 pm »

No. I refuse to believe Lavos is not sentient, and I also refuse to believe his species is inherently destructive towards planets. How would a species like that evolve anyway? It makes no logical sense, nor does it square with what we know about biology. Humans can wreak destruction on a global scale but that is only due to our intelligence in developing the kind of weaponry necessary. We're not inherently destructive, and I don't think Lavos or his species is either. When Lavos destroyed the world in 1999 he was defending himself against what he percieved as a threat to his existance. And I honestly believe that given the chance to negotiate there would have been a peaceful solution to the problem.

Prove it. The entire series depicts Lavos as a horrible, malevolent monster with no positive qualities whatsoever except for the argueably accidental mutation of the human race. Unless you can prove otherwise, that's what he is.

Anyway, my personal theory of Lavos's origin is that he was born from the Big Bang, and serves as a sort of Galactus figure.

44

Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Re: Theories and Questions on Lavos

« on: February 11, 2007, 03:01:48 pm »

Lavos, though showing almost no signs of sentience, is still the amalgimation(Woo!  $2.50 word!) of everything that will be, is, or ever was...  So, in theory, could Lavos had been reasoned with instead of beaten to death?  I think so, honestly.  Think about it...  In the footage played in 2,300 A.D., Lavos popped out of the planet then destroyed it.  But, when Chrono's gang when to 1,999 A.D. themselves and confronted Lavos, it delayed its attack!  Why did Lavos delay his attack on the planet when it sensed Chrono's gang?  Maybe it wanted to talk with them instead of fight, but when Chrono's gang showed hostilities, it instead put up the defense it did by mimicking creatures from all time periods!  My theory really isn't all that farfetched, given these facts.  But let's move away from reason for a moment...

I think it just wanted to destroy these annoying little bugs buzzing in it's face before it got to work.

What sense did it make to stew for 65,001,999 years under the Earth's core only to pop out and obliterate everything?  Is it one of those "salt the earth so nothing will ever grow here again" sort of things?  Did Lavos want to make sure nothing else could ever use the planet after it was through with it's cycle?  Was it lonely because no one(I'm guessing) came to see it emerge?  Was it tired of "playing God"?  It makes no sense at all to destroy something you helped make and leave...  Unless it was a "spite" sort of thing, I mean.  But that just raises further questions!  Who was Lavos spiting?  The Entity?  Itself?  Who knows...
Tying in with the above, Lavos left three Mini-Lavos...es...on Earth before it left.  But what are the Mini-Lavos...es...doing there?  Are they there to continue to shape and mold the ruined world which the original(as far a we know) Lavos left?  If so, why didn't they simply burrow underground like the original Lavos?  If not, are they just...there?

He was harvesting energy and DNA so he could conceive Children, then wiped the planet clean to make a suitable enviornment for them. Then Lavos died, became death peak, and the Lavos Spawns were supposed to grow to maturity and climb Death Peak to use it as a launching port to find their own planet to infect.

...where...exactly...was the rest of the world when all this Lavos nonsense was happening?  I mean, where were they when anything else was happening, like when Zeal existed, or when Maou took over the world?  I realize that at the time, there were probably no real plans for a "Chrono Trigger 2"(despite the US Programmers' Ending's cute little message, I mean), but seriously...  It's like the rest of the world just didn't care.  Now, I say this speaking as someone who never played Chrono Cross through...but does El Nido care about Lavos?  Did they take notice when Zeal crashed on their sister continent so many years back thanks to Lavos?  Did 1,999 A.D. El Nido take notice when Lavos destroyed everything in the Lavos Timeline?

The whole world WAS involved. What we saw in Chrono Trigger was the whole world. And El Nido didn't exist until after Lavos was destroyed. It's this wierd time travel thing I'm not gonna get into in this thread. Anyway, most of the world wasn't even AWARE of Lavos's existence until it was too late.

What if there was a way for his species to live without harming the planet or anything living upon it? It's certainly a question that should be answered, since he was obviously not the only member of his species. If there's a way, I think they should take it. The Lavosian species has as much a right to live as any other species, so if there's a way for them to coexist it should be utilized.

Except there ISN'T. Harvesting planets is the entirety of the Lavos life cycle. There's no reasoning with a being that will destroy a world just for a single litter of children. Lavos is probably animal-like in intellect, and probably has no sapient mental faculties. Plus, the main point of the Chrono series seems to be Survival of the Fittest, and Crono's crew proves that Lavos does not deserve to exist if it keeps the Earth from prospering. Lavos is a disease.

45

History, Locations, and Artifacts / Re: The Summoning Circle in Magus's Castle

« on: February 11, 2007, 02:54:06 pm »

Wow, this is pretty cool. Nice one. Perhaps the beasts in the circle are there to represent Lavos, a horrible beast that brings destruction wherever it goes?

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Mammon Machine was being used to draw energy from Lavos at optimum efficiency, and Magus was probably trying to open a portal to his pocket dimension.