Author Topic: Kid and Serge, destined to be together?  (Read 2328 times)

Mijae

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Kid and Serge, destined to be together?
« on: May 31, 2005, 03:53:59 am »
Hi guys, I'm new here but I'm just going to dive right in.  There's a lot in Chrono Cross that's bugged me (though my interest in the game has been greatly renewed ever since I played Radical Dreamers), but I think overall most of my angst could have been avoided if the game's central issue, Schala/Kid, seemed better handled or made more sense to me.  So in an effort to open up my mind and get some perspective on things... I'd like to get your takes on the issue that really started it all!

Schala was supposed to have created Kid by trying to reach out to Serge in his time when he was attacked.  This also created the storm.  But... why?

What is it that made Serge important?  As I went through the game, I tried to rationalize it by saying that Serge is an important hero chosen by the Entity, much like Crono.  But the things that really made him so important, like being the arbiter, didn't really take form until after the fact, after Schala had interfered.

What was it that would draw Schala's attention to Serge of all things?  While off in the Tesseract and getting mixed up with Lavos and filled with despair in this whole crazy bizarre situation, why would she suddenly decide to focus on some random kid who she'd never met, and never had anything to do with?  Why not have her thoughts be drawn across time to, oh, I don't know, Janus instead?  The person she was closest to when all that shit went down?  Or at least one of the other CT heroes that she met and trusted and spent her last moments of normal temporal reality saving?

...I suppose a lot of my problems with CC really revolve around a lack of Magus though, so I should probably just accept living with disappointment.  :wink:

Zaperking

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Kid and Serge, destined to be together?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2005, 06:57:45 am »
*Spoilers so looks out*Schala reached out to Serge because she heared his cry and screaming through time after a Panthar Demon attacked him.










She felt pity for him and caused a Magnetic Storm that shut down Chronopolis' systems and allowed Miguel, Serge and Wazuki to get to it, where Serge made contact with the frozen flame to heal himself.

Whilst the whole Project Kid was arranged by Belthazar, who needed Serge to have been there in the right time for Schala to cross time. Schala though only had enough power to clone herself, and send her pendant and the sane mind that she had left with Kid.

As the whole game revolves around the aspect of "Fate", it was all destined to happen, but in a way it is very hard to realise who and why because we could all say it was Belthazar, or we could say it was the Entity.

Hadriel

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Kid and Serge, destined to be together?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2005, 02:16:39 pm »
My only problem with that is Schala's selection of Serge -- he must have been one hell of a whiner in his youth.  Why not save someone else?  There are an uncountable number of people in history who've died horrible deaths.  Why not save some of the Jews who died in the Holocaust, or the kids who got blown up in Vietnam?  Why not save good people from being tortured during the Inquisition?  There were a trillion other possibilities.  So why Serge?  I get the feeling that, to an extent, she can sense destiny, since Serge does have quite a lot revolving around him.

Sentenal

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Kid and Serge, destined to be together?
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2005, 02:29:45 pm »
Well, for most of your examples, obviously because those thing happend in our world, no the Chrono world.

And I never understood what made Serge so special that Schala would decide to save him over all others who died.

Silvercry

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Kid and Serge, destined to be together?
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2005, 02:39:37 pm »
Maybe we're thinking about it the wrong way.  Maybe she picked Serge because he was the only one in a position to do something about her own fate.  If Schala still had her rational and compassionate mind at that point (and she did) and had even a glimpse of possible time lines through her forced union with Lavos, is it not possible that that she hand an inkling, subconscious or otherwise, that helping this particular boy might, in the long run, help her own situation?

I know that’s reaching, but I'm new here... :P

Daniel Krispin

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Kid and Serge, destined to be together?
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2005, 03:15:52 pm »
Considering the Tesseract is extra-temporal, that is not inconceivable, actually.

Mijae

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Kid and Serge, destined to be together?
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2005, 04:17:39 pm »
Quote from: Silvercry
Maybe we're thinking about it the wrong way.  Maybe she picked Serge because he was the only one in a position to do something about her own fate.  If Schala still had her rational and compassionate mind at that point (and she did) and had even a glimpse of possible time lines through her forced union with Lavos, is it not possible that that she hand an inkling, subconscious or otherwise, that helping this particular boy might, in the long run, help her own situation?


Ah, now we're getting somewhere!  I like that angle on it.

I find it hard to imagine Belthasar planning around Schala creating Kid.  Messing around with destiny to control time, okay, that's plausible for a fictional story.  But having the plan also revolve around the emotional state of someone who's off outside time, and expecting them to do something as unique and bizarre as reaching out from that space beyond time to make a clone of yourself... something we never would have even imagined as possible in the Crono universe beforehand...

...that's getting more difficult.

However, I think there's some room here for Belthasar to "play around."  He may not have known how everything would work all at once.  (realistically, this would be far more likely than the alternative :P) He might have had to set up a timeline, see that indeed, this is how it turned out, but there was something unexpected, and he had to go back and fix something, or program the Record of Fate so it turns out this way... and Kid might not have been in his original plan.

But with this plan being bent on saving her, his efforts to get closer to a timeline where that happens could have caught her attention.  The possibilities would become clear to her.  If only we could get this to happen in this new timeline... if only Serge, Wazuki and Miguel could reach the Flame... And she might have just filled in the gaps he needed as his plan was in progress.

It still sounds kind of fanwankish, though.  :wink:  I just reviewed the plot summary here and realized I was a bit mixed up in my first post, too.  I remembered Kid's birth and the storm as being linked for some reason.  I forgot that Schala had to interfere twice - once to create Kid, and then again to create the storm alone and help Serge.  This seems odd enough in itself.  If creating the storm was to save Serge, what prompted the creation of Kid?  And if the creation of Kid came first, taking all those "good happy side" thoughts with her, wouldn't it be harder for Schala to interfere again?  Although it sounds like there's some mixups in how old Kid is anyway, so...

Gaaah... No talk rubbish!  Mijae head go boom!

SilentMartyr

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Kid and Serge, destined to be together?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2005, 05:49:27 pm »
The way I see it Schala heard Serge before being "attached" to Lavos. On her way to the DBT she heard his cries of pain and felt pity (I think she was reminded of Janus but thats me). Kid was a last ditch effort by her to save herself from Lavos's corruption.

Hadriel

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Kid and Serge, destined to be together?
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2005, 06:13:01 pm »
Quote from: Sentenal
Well, for most of your examples, obviously because those thing happend in our world, no the Chrono world.

And I never understood what made Serge so special that Schala would decide to save him over all others who died.


Etymologically speaking, they did, but that doesn't really matter so much as the effect -- even assuming you're correct, there are bound to be plenty of other people with the same problems as Serge.  Why not save them instead?

Daniel Krispin

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Kid and Serge, destined to be together?
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2005, 06:20:26 pm »
Quote from: Hadriel
Quote from: Sentenal
Well, for most of your examples, obviously because those thing happend in our world, no the Chrono world.

And I never understood what made Serge so special that Schala would decide to save him over all others who died.


Etymologically speaking, they did, but that doesn't really matter so much as the effect -- even assuming you're correct, there are bound to be plenty of other people with the same problems as Serge.  Why not save them instead?


Theologically, too! Don't forget that!

Anyway... there must just be something special about Serge's soul that only Schala could see. Or else, as Silvercry essentially said, she knew many possible outcomes of the future and how each would end, and knew Serge to be her one best hope.

Shadow_Dragon

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Kid and Serge, destined to be together?
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2005, 10:19:33 pm »
I still think that predicting the outcomes of people's actions is within the realm of Balthasar's planning (a little bit off topic, but I think that the future can be predicted if you just realize what every person will do based on their current environment and past)

Philosopher1701

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Kid and Serge, destined to be together?
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2005, 03:07:46 am »
What was it that would draw Schala's attention to Serge of all things? While off in the Tesseract and getting mixed up with Lavos and filled with despair in this whole crazy bizarre situation, why would she suddenly decide to focus on some random kid who she'd never met, and never had anything to do with? Why not have her thoughts be drawn across time to, oh, I don't know, Janus instead? The person she was closest to when all that shit went down?


That was an example I used to try to prove that Serge could have been somehow directly linked with Janus.

Schala heard the crying of her young brother across time, and was compelled to rescue him.  8)

Zaperking

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Kid and Serge, destined to be together?
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2005, 06:15:22 am »
^
That bring back the whole discussion on if Serge has any connection to Janus. Blue hair, Green eyes, but a new life withotu corruption...

Anyway, The game does imply that theres something very special about Serge. It's kind of obvious. His outcomes will decide the future of the planet and time and space.

My idea is that we know that Lavos could see into the future since he lived in a pocket dimension. Schala might have seen that through Lavos and saw one of Serge's actions that destroyed the future if he lives. She could have figured out that if he changed actions, she'd be saved. But Schala isn't the type of person who would use someone to save herself. We all know the kind of nice person she was before the Ocean Palace disaster. She would never sacrafice or use someone for her own good. Unless you think Lavos corrupted her to do so, which wouldn't be true, since now i'll come to the part about Kid.

Schala was slowly merging with Lavos. Her pendant still had a bit of energy left, even though it should have run out like in CT (My theory on that is on another topic, ask me and ill write it up again). With that she tried to escape Lavos' grap but she could and inturn caused the time storm, and through it she happened to hear Serge crying. So with that she saved him by sending Wazuki, Miguel and Serge to Chronopolis, which was past the coral reef around the sea of Eden. Schala would have then realised as she cannot send herself through time because she's attatched to Lavos, her last ditch attempt would be to create her good self and atleast maybe her good self could save herself. And so Kid was sent out, with Schala's pendant. My idea is that Schala also set up that purple shield or bubble that Schala is in resting on Lavos' back.

Then we have the whole "what year did Kid land in" debate. Well we can always follow the ultima guide >.> But I think its prosumed she landed before 1005 AD. Since Schala probably had only a bit of power left, she was trying to send her clone as close as possible to 1000AD to Crono and Co.

Sentenal

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Kid and Serge, destined to be together?
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2005, 12:12:08 pm »
Havn't we already disproved the "Serge is Janus" theory?

Mijae

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Kid and Serge, destined to be together?
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2005, 03:29:05 pm »
I guess those superficial similarities to Janus couldn't hurt.  As far as making Schala like him, I mean.

It's kind of sad that something this pivotal to the plot and the relationship of the two main characters takes this much fanwanking to explain...