Author Topic: Fuck Sexism  (Read 115469 times)

Lord J Esq

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #600 on: September 14, 2009, 10:24:33 pm »
On the other hand, I was also raised in a household where James Cameron flicks were playing half the time, and where the amount of housework was shared pretty evenly. Maybe it's the subliminal messages that speak loudest.

Yeah. I just never picked up on many of the sexist cues that most kids do. When I was a kid I was convinced that my parents were showing clear favoritism toward my little sister, but at the time I was convinced it was because she was younger, not because of her sex. I never prejudged or dismissed her because she was "a girl," although I did prejudge and dismiss her in other ways. My dad was the sole breadwinner, and I knew that many other moms were also of the stay-at-home variety, but I never thought about that as a sex thing, because there were many examples to the contrary as well.

Much of this, I figure I owe to the fact that the atmosphere in my house was pretty egalitarian. Racism, sexism, and other isms didn't even become apparent to me until I got older. There was a time in my youth when, to the extent I thought about them at all, I thought they were in the past. Golly, was I in for a rude awakening...

Oh, and at least some of my remarkably un-fucked-up outlook I owe to the fact that I'm a social misfit who doesn't absorb popular norms very well. =)


 where the expectations of sexism were not present.

ZaichikArky

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #601 on: September 15, 2009, 01:26:32 am »
That's a sad situation, ZaichikArky.  Your father making those decisions for your mother was wrong, and your parents making that decision for you if you became pregnant would be wrong also.  Even them pressuring you would be wrong.  It's your body, not theirs.  I don't know how much they could do though, other than pressure you, since you said you were much older than 15 (I assume you're a legal adult).

It was really terrible.  I won't say it wasn't.  It wasn't an isolated event.  I became pregnant probably a month or two after the abuse started.  You're right, pregnancies resulting from assaults are rare, but probably not as rare as most people would think.

And Lord J Esq--the pro-equality atmosphere you and other Compendium members have created here has not gone unnoticed or unappreciated.  I haven't been on this site for very long, but that is something I have picked up on, as I'm sure many others have as well.  Thank you, truly.

Ok, plural >_>;. See, I thought that you had only one incident that caused the pregnancy. That makes it even worse! At least you had a very supportive family by your side. One of my best friends, she has this step sister who kind of is a bad girl and does a lot of bad things. She got pregnant at 15 and did get to keep her baby. I really hope that she's turned her life around. Her parents are very kind and supportive, but she always does these really bad, bad things. Such as get really drunk and run away from home. I just don't understand how kids can do that if the parents are nice. Doesn't really make sense to me.

Anyway, in a lot of situations, the man gets to control whether his gf/wife has an abortion or not. I've always kind of resented my dad for that because I think I would have liked being a big sister(I'm an only child) and I think it's his fault that I never got that, but at the time, mom was young and impressionable. Actually, still in some ways, she's still quite impressionable in terms of my dad's beliefs on things. She was barely older than me, and I might do the same if people kept pressuring me to abort. Still, this should never be law. There should never be stipulations against abortions (I even support partial birth abortions), and the woman should decide if she wants to have one or not. I guess part of my pro-choice stand comes from my mom having them, but later when I got older, I realized it was complicated by the fact that dad made her get them >_>;.

Sajainta

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #602 on: September 16, 2009, 03:13:55 am »
ZaichikArky,

It's a shame about the girl you know.  Some people just like acting out and being rebellious, to the point that it harms them and the people who love them.  I hope she'll come to her senses and return to her loving family  I hope that, at the very least, she is being a good mother to her child.

And hey...I don't blame you for resenting your dad.  I'm sorry you were cheated of younger siblings, that's really sad.  I hope that, if you do become pregnant, that you make the decision that is right for you, not what is right for your parents.  Although I can understand that there would be a lot of emotional turmoil involved.

You're right, I do have a wonderful family.  Although they didn't know of the pregnancy, nor the loss of it.  They didn't know about the abuse until 4 years after it had ended.  They weren't around while it was going on--I was living with guardians (not from Guardia, heh, but legal guardians) at the time.  And my guardians were involved in the abuse..  It's really complicated and really fucked up..

Sajainta

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #603 on: September 16, 2009, 03:16:07 am »
I grew up in an impoverished, male-dominated country where sexism is rampant and completely accepted.  The men didn't care because that's all they knew (not that that's any excuse).  And the women just accepted it, because that's what women were supposed to do.  Rapists?  No big deal.  The belief there is "boys will be boys" and that the men just can't help themselves (a superstition in the country is that if a man doesn't act upon every sexual urge he has, he will become infertile and impotent).  But too bad for the woman--for the most part they're kicked out of the house and disowned.  Because really...what whores.  Prostitution?  Perfectly okay.  Domestic violence?  Hey--she deserved it.  (All sarcasm, obviously.)

Without saying too much about where I grew up or why my parents work overseas, the community I was raised in was very religious (Protestant).  I was taught, from a very young age, that women should find a man to protect them, be subservient to them (arrgh, those damn Epistles >_<), and bear children.  And stay at home.  And fully accept this, because hey... "it wasn't women who ended WWII.  It wasn't women who stopped apartheid" (paraphrased quote from John Eldredge's Wild At Heart: Discovering the Secret of a Man's Soul, which is a Christian devotional for men).

Thank goodness I grew up in a loving, equality-based home.  My parents have gotten so much shit from the community they work with because 1)  They're both feminists, and aren't scared to say it.  2)  They voted for Obama (oh the horreur).  3)  They believe in the evils of evolution.  And 4)  They've raised three children who don't fit the "cookie cutter Christian children" norm and are true to themselves.  I'm an atheist and my one brother is transgendered (born physically female).  And my parents love us and accept us.  But that's a "bad" thing to do, apparently.  They're such "bad Christians", apparently.

But obviously growing up among such social ills and around ignorant, backwards people who served as teachers left its mark on me, and on other females I knew.  The vast majority of them just followed what they were taught their entire lives because they "know" that their purpose in life is to serve men.

It's disgusting.  All of it.  I grew up in a country where human trafficking runs rampant, and is mostly ignored by authorities.  And let's not forget that the U.S. is not free from something that despicable.  But the ignorance of it...it's enough to make anyone vomit.  Because, you know, that kind of thing doesn't happen here in the U.S.  Because, you know, we abolished slavery in the 19th century.  Because, you know, that stuff only happens in Thailand, or Albania, or Russia.  Because, you know, if it happened here, it would be stopped right away.

But some authorities here are not so different from the ones in the country I was raised in.  They don't care, or they're bribed, or they themselves are "customers"--knowingly raping the terrified teenager in that cheap motel who is kept in someone's basement.

(Do note that I'm not saying all police officers are like this.  Not at all.  But some are.)

It makes me sick.  All of this, all of it, needs to be stopped.  I know I can't do everything, but I will (and am) doing something to try and end it.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #604 on: September 16, 2009, 03:19:26 am »
I was taught, from a very young age, that women should find a man to protect them, be subservient to them (arrgh, those damn Epistles >_<), and bear children.  And stay at home.  And fully accept this, because hey... "it wasn't women who ended WWII.  It wasn't women who stopped apartheid" (paraphrased quote from John Eldredge's Wild At Heart: Discovering the Secret of a Man's Soul, which is a Christian devotional for men).

Golly. Even I fail to fully appreciate sometimes just how flimsy a lot of the logic behind sexism is.

Also, I don't know which country you grew up in, but there's a fair bit of sexism right here in the United States, from groping to condescension to flat-out assault. The positive difference--the thing that sets America apart and ahead of most other nations--is that, if you're a victim of sexism in this country, the law is usually on your side. (Cue the frenzied clucking by conservatives that radical feminists are trying to destroy America...)

Sajainta

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #605 on: September 16, 2009, 03:30:10 am »
Also, I don't know which country you grew up in, but there's a fair bit of sexism right here in the United States, from groping to condescension to flat-out assault. The positive difference--the thing that sets America apart and ahead of most other nations--is that, if you're a victim of sexism in this country, the law is usually on your side. (Cue the frenzied clucking by conservatives that radical feminists are trying to destroy America...)

Oh yes, I definitely know that it happens here as well.  I've known too many women, myself included, who've gone through some pretty crappy things because of sexism.

It is indeed very fortunate that, for the most part, U.S. law is on our side.  There's a lot of work to be done, still, but the U.S. is leaps about bounds ahead of the vast majority of the world.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 03:33:01 am by Sajainta »

FaustWolf

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #606 on: September 16, 2009, 03:43:36 am »
On the need for a man for protection: this is precisely because society is programming men to be violent. It's like women are wandering through a sea of pitbulls, and society is telling her that she needs to be accompanied everywhere by one pitbull to fight off the others. This is no solution for women's safety; all societies still marked by patriarchy need to stop turning men into pitbulls in the first place.

That poor Yale student who was just murdered and stuffed in a wall...I think we all know the gender of her attacker. Yes, I'm making an assumption -- a very sexist assumption -- but I'll bet a nickle that I'm right. There's a reason why the vagina has never been used as a weapon of war, and why we hear far fewer stories about women being aggressive and violent stalkers, murderers, etc. Something in our society is infiltrating men's psyches, specifically, successfully training a portion to lash out, to seize, to kill; we need to find whatever that is, and eradicate it ruthlessly. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics we're actually making some headway on this in the US. But have the causes for the decline been adequately studied, so that we may know what we're actually doing right?

Anyway, until men's violent tendencies are adequately managed, or better yet, deleted, I'd have to advocate that everyone (men are more often victims of violent crime than women according to the stats referenced above) carry a Taser and learn how to use it. Provided it's legal to carry one. I'm not quite ready to jump on the free gun bandwagon, but I'm definitely beginning to see some worth in carrying an implement of self defense.


About human trafficking: aren't American and other Western tourists the main users of sex slaves? The topic needs to be addressed more openly here not only because people are actually trafficked through the US, but because the US may be the largest source of demand for such horrors.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 03:46:03 am by FaustWolf »

IAmSerge

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #607 on: September 16, 2009, 05:09:07 am »
I'm not quite ready to jump on the free gun bandwagon, but I'm definitely beginning to see some worth in carrying an implement of self defense.

Im not going to say that guns free for everyone, everywhere is the way to go...

... however, what I will say is that anti-gun laws are not going to stop someone from shooting up a school.  If someone has the intent to do that, they will find a gun anyways, and they will bring it in anyways.  Laws like that aren't actually going to stop them from that, because if laws were a problem they wouldnt be shooting people up in the first place.  What I do support is the legality to own and carry a handgun in certain places... however, I also support tighter security in places like schools and such.  Security can definitely stop things like that from happening more often than laws can (unless the actual law involves security >.> )

I'm sorry. this probably belongs in a different topic...

Lord J Esq

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #608 on: September 16, 2009, 05:17:56 am »
... however, what I will say is that anti-gun laws are not going to stop someone from shooting up a school.  If someone has the intent to do that, they will find a gun anyways, and they will bring it in anyways.

I don't know. I've heard that argument many times, but when a school, or an office, or a gym, or some other place where people gather gets "shot up," the media usually try and find out where the gun(s) came from. Often the guns were the legal property of the shooter, or the shooter's parents.

I'd be willing to accept that, if we had more restrictive gun ownership laws, some people would then seek out illicit guns to do their shooting. But inherent in this argument against gun control laws is the assumption that "some people" is more like "most people," and that closing some of the routes to legal ownership of firearms would have zero significant impact on reducing the number of gun crimes--which is implausible. If reducing the legal access to guns can lead to even modest reductions in gun crime, then a responsible person has to ask how many precious guns a dusty old human life is worth.

Thought

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #609 on: September 16, 2009, 10:33:28 am »
Anyway, until men's violent tendencies are adequately managed, or better yet, deleted...

A random curiosity, but have you ever read Gateway to Women's Country? It is a science fiction book that proposes just that.

FaustWolf

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #610 on: September 16, 2009, 01:39:30 pm »
Thought, I'll check that out. Does the book end up portraying the de...violentized men as emasculated, or does the book portray it as a positive development?

Thought

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #611 on: September 16, 2009, 01:57:20 pm »
It depicts them as having telekinetic powers.

Depending on which particular wave of feminism one belongs to, the book either depicts a utopia or a dystopia. If you are planning on reading it, however, I won’t say more, so as to not spoil the read.

EDIT: As a side note, the book is really called "Gate to Women's Country." For some reason, I have a bad habbit of calling it "gateway" instead.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 02:11:43 pm by Thought »

Sajainta

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #612 on: September 16, 2009, 04:19:34 pm »
About human trafficking: aren't American and other Western tourists the main users of sex slaves? The topic needs to be addressed more openly here not only because people are actually trafficked through the US, but because the US may be the largest source of demand for such horrors.

It's very difficult to obtain statistics about trafficking, due to its illegal and underground nature.  However, from what I know and from what I have read sex trafficking is a huge demand in the U.S., and many overseas "customers" are Western.  It's not unheard of for Westerners to travel overseas specifically to have access to young children.

Roughly about 10,000 women and children are trafficked into the U.S. for sexual exploitation, although a lot of people have argued that the number is probably a lot higher.  And, obviously, that doesn't include people who are trafficked within the U.S., who are from the U.S. (because that happens, a lot.  It isn't just immigrants who are trafficked).

Also, if a young girl can make her trafficker X amount of money in her native country, she can make him ten times that in America, so many traffickers are keen to ship their "products" to the U.S.

A quote I found::  "If anything, the women I talked to said that the sex in the U.S. is even rougher than what the girls face on Calle Santo Tomas. Rosario, a woman I met in Mexico City, who had been trafficked to New York and held captive for a number of years, said: ''In America we had 'special jobs.' Oral sex, anal sex, often with many men. Sex is now more adventurous, harder.'' She said that she believed younger foreign girls were in demand in the U.S. because of an increased appetite for more aggressive, dangerous sex. Traffickers need younger and younger girls, she suggested, simply because they are more pliable."  From this New York Times article--http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/25/magazine/25SEXTRAFFIC.html?pagewanted=print&position=.

(I'm sorry, I can't figure out how to insert the links within a sentence.)

It's been estimated that there could be as many as 50,000 people held captive as sex slaves in the U.S.

All-in-all, it seems more than likely that America is, at the very least, one of the highest demanding countries for sexual exploitation.  If not the highest.

Uboa

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #613 on: September 16, 2009, 04:41:50 pm »
Frontline used to have this full program online, but you can glean a great deal from the excerpts and features they still have available:

Frontline: Sex Slaves

(By the way, the syntax for inserting links is "[ u r l = h t t p : / / b l a b l a . c o m / ] t e x t [ / u r l ]" without spaces.)

I'm not sure if the accounts of child prostitution are still online, but I remember from the program that it is quite common in Russia for local children to be pimped, and for poor families from far around to actually pimp their own children on the Russian streets for money.  Many of the customers are Americans.

FaustWolf

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Re: Fuck Sexism
« Reply #614 on: September 17, 2009, 01:50:14 pm »
This sex slavery business is sick. Sick, sick, sick, sick, sick. These women are basically being stuffed into rape rooms then. I just can't...fathom what that's like for them. And right in the United States.

What is it that drives these men's desires to basically have sex slaves? What sociological and psychological issues are so unaddressed in patriarchal societies that they're producing an entire underground of serial rapists? Because that's what's happening here.