Author Topic: Revised Plot and Planning Thread  (Read 23349 times)

nightmare975

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Re: Revised Plot and Planning Thread
« Reply #105 on: November 23, 2006, 11:28:46 pm »
But that can be explained as the Gurus not going to the Ocean Palace.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Revised Plot and Planning Thread
« Reply #106 on: November 23, 2006, 11:31:52 pm »
Hm, well, sort of...Time Traveler's Immunity would force the first Belthasar to always appear, but whether Kato had that in mind is debatable. This is something we'll have to ask him on.

Daniel Krispin

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Re: Revised Plot and Planning Thread
« Reply #107 on: November 24, 2006, 05:28:15 am »
Hm, well, sort of...Time Traveler's Immunity would force the first Belthasar to always appear, but whether Kato had that in mind is debatable. This is something we'll have to ask him on.

And while you're at it, tell him about CE. Heh. I wonder how that would go over?

nightmare975

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Re: Revised Plot and Planning Thread
« Reply #108 on: November 24, 2006, 12:29:07 pm »
He'd probably pull a C&D out of his pocket. :lol:

Vehek

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Re: Revised Plot and Planning Thread
« Reply #109 on: November 24, 2006, 03:18:40 pm »
On the topic of TTI, what happened to Belthasar and Melchior in the Reptile TL in CE? They still would have appeared, right? Belthasar (I think) hasn't time traveled since he arrived in the future around 2300 A.D.,  while Melchior has been brought to 2302 A.D.

nightmare975

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Re: Revised Plot and Planning Thread
« Reply #110 on: November 24, 2006, 04:02:58 pm »
On the topic of TTI, what happened to Belthasar and Melchior in the Reptile TL in CE? They still would have appeared, right? Belthasar (I think) hasn't time traveled since he arrived in the future around 2300 A.D.,  while Melchior has been brought to 2302 A.D.

They would have never existed because Lavos doesn't exist to send them in the Reptile Timeline.

Chrono'99

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Re: Revised Plot and Planning Thread
« Reply #111 on: November 24, 2006, 04:22:37 pm »
On the topic of TTI, what happened to Belthasar and Melchior in the Reptile TL in CE? They still would have appeared, right? Belthasar (I think) hasn't time traveled since he arrived in the future around 2300 A.D.,  while Melchior has been brought to 2302 A.D.

They would have never existed because Lavos doesn't exist to send them in the Reptile Timeline.

Actually, if I'm not mistaken they do appear. The events of the timeline are changed but the original Melchior and Belthasar still always appear in the Present and Future. However, they're not really used or mentioned in the plot (Melchior could have died or something, and the Reptite 2,302 AD is not explored). The Melchior who appears in the Present would be the very "first one" from the original Ocean Palace disaster, the one who never met Crono, and would be time-bastardized later anyway. This would be kind of complicated (and uninteresting) to have to explain TTI and TB at this passage.

Sorin does appear in this Reptite timeline though. It's easier to explain his situation than with the Melchior(s).

~

Question: When is King Zeal supposed to try to recreate his kingdom? Could this be a problem for the party if they're in the future when he does that?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2006, 04:24:35 pm by Chrono'99 »

nightmare975

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Re: Revised Plot and Planning Thread
« Reply #112 on: November 24, 2006, 04:39:40 pm »
What if King Zeal came to Chronopolis when the heroes are doing something in another timeline and he uses the TDC to go back to 12,000 BC and uses the combined powers of the Frozen Flames in the Ocean Palace to prevent Zeal's fall? We could then use the Black Omen sprite as a new Zeal sort of thing. Zealpolis perhaps?

ZeaLitY

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Re: Revised Plot and Planning Thread
« Reply #113 on: November 24, 2006, 06:38:19 pm »
He gives the power thing to the villagers while the party is in 12000 B.C., right at the end of the game.

This should wrap it except for Dalton / King Zeal meeting, Proto-052C, and the sort of weakness of the Chrono Break thing. I'm curently throwing around ideas for Dalton...I'm thinking about King Zeal meeting him before the party goes to see him, and somehow tying that in to the Chrono Break...
« Last Edit: November 24, 2006, 06:53:22 pm by ZeaLitY »

ZeaLitY

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Re: Revised Plot and Planning Thread
« Reply #114 on: November 24, 2006, 07:25:03 pm »
Well...my only concern about that would be that Lavos doesn't want that Zeal to remain in the sky, since he presumably destroyed it for getting too powerful. We can dodge that bullet with the new one, possibly...thoughts needed.

Here is my idea to wrap up the remaining plots:

Dalton / King Zeal

Belthasar still wants to make the Chrono Break, and Gaspar doesn't quite know this yet as he's been conferring with Melchior.  Belthasar notes that throughout Zeal were some refined magical conduits, sort of acting as transmission lines and buffers to power the islands. These would allow high magic energy input to a construct creating the Chrono Break. Getting them from Zeal would be impossible without severely disrupting history, as they'd literlaly have to dismantle parts of Enhasa, Kajar, and Zeal Palace. But there's another option: they can probably find some in 11998 B.C., especially if Dalton stockpiled some. The party hit the ground running in ancient times, learning of Dalton's hideout at the icy lake. Upon reaching him, Dalton boasts that he's soon going to have the power he desires -- that all this equipment he's gathered will soon grant him the "staying power" he desires and enable him to get revenge on his enemies. He reveals that his plans begin in a few hours. He laughs that it is convenient for Crono to show up, since he can start his revenge early by killing the party. The usual tsuff in the plot outline happens and Magus kills him. They enter his storehouse and acquire the conduits and return to Chronopolis. Before the screen fades, King Zeal arrives and laments that Dalton is dead, but smirks that he can "participate in that little revolution" himself now.

What I'm going for here is that King Zeal visited Dalton and promised to take him to Crono's era to wreak havoc. This wouldn't change time at all -- originally, Dalton never did regain any power or influence, and in the new timeline, he merely participates in the Fall of Guardia with the Porre army and later dies. Since Dalton dies, King Zeal decides to show up at the Fall of Guardia himself. Of course, if this all happened BEFORE the party went to 11998 B.C., then Dalton would still appear at the Fall of Guardia, which could make things interesting. But of course, we could have the party come to 11998 B.C. before King Zeal ever gets there to complete things for Dalton (in history from a Time Error perspective, if that makes sense). If we use this, should we have Dalton and King Zeal both, or just the King?

Anyway, after they get back, Gaspar takes the conduits and destroys them. Belthasar explains that...due to recent discoveries, they won't need the Chrono Break. The party can go to Chronopolis's lower levels and talk to Melchior and Gaspar to learn more. Melchior will hint that Gaspar absolutely blew up and forbade Belthasar, while Gaspar will talk about the extreme danger of the Chrono Break and how using it to kill one person is purely excessive.

Proto 5-02C

Since the Chronopolis outrage is squashed, then yeah, there's not much to do here. But with him, it'd be easy to have the party bump into him right after acquiring the repair part from Johnny. Proto could notice their unique fashion and generally greet them in a friendly manner, making for some small talk. The party could then sort of talk about how the old Proto has been lost to the changes in time...just like the old Johnny. It'd be sort of a reflective sad moment.

Comments?

Chrono'99

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Re: Revised Plot and Planning Thread
« Reply #115 on: November 24, 2006, 07:51:32 pm »
Perhaps King Zeal could have made the promise, but simply not have send Dalton to 1,005 AD yet when the party comes to the icy lake. So Dalton dies and Zeal participates in the fall himself at some point between this and the DBT. Might be the simpliest stuff to explain for the players...I think.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2006, 07:53:05 pm by Chrono'99 »

ZeaLitY

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Re: Revised Plot and Planning Thread
« Reply #116 on: November 24, 2006, 09:24:40 pm »
Okay. The only other plot problem (besides the ending, which we'll discuss later) is the party's communicating to Belthasar who is in the future. It's...it causes all kinds of problems we haven't even thought of yet. I guess I will get the outline updated then run through all the instances of Belthasar communicating to see if something can be done about it. Chrono series time theory is largely a personal thing -- when someone travels back in time, history is rewritten from that person's perspective. Until that person is finished, it's almost as if we consider the future to be in a state of flux or unwritten. So having Belthasar communicate assumes that 1. Fate exists or 2. Whatever the bad guys are doing, it's never enough to change the future. But what about after King Zeal gives the villagers the Sun Stone Mark II and the party are in 11998 B.C.? Nothing has changed yet, but if the party don't do anything the villagers will build a second Zeal. To have Belthasar speak here would mean history is already written, which we can't allow.

nightmare975

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Re: Revised Plot and Planning Thread
« Reply #117 on: November 24, 2006, 10:57:49 pm »
What if he descibes the events that have happened? That way we have a way of motavating the player and party.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Revised Plot and Planning Thread
« Reply #118 on: November 25, 2006, 06:30:00 pm »
Results of chat:

* King Zeal gives them the original Sun Stone...steals it during the Guardia madness, perhpas his motivation

ZeaLitY

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Re: Revised Plot and Planning Thread
« Reply #119 on: November 25, 2006, 09:43:19 pm »
I tried to move the plot to the Wiki:

http://www.chronocompendium.com/CrimsonEchoes/edit/Plot.html

Python error, and only Ramsus would know how to fix that, so we're stuck with the thread.