A question for all you Anime fans

[Rat]

Has anyone else kept up with the manga, or are you all just strictly anime watchers? Just curious.

I like the outfits after the time skip. ^^

[ZeaLitY]

Anime. Manga is not emotional enough. I do not feel the passion of youth or tear up at Rock Lee's hardships when I see him statically sitting in black and white...

[grey_the_angel]

It's still new, horridly slaughter plot, six finger having, spice of life rock lee retarding, coporate milking of the series Naruto.

[ZeaLitY]

It is the life blood of Naruto. No filler means Naruto dies. Live with it. They don't have to churn out twenty two minutes a week for your enjoyment, you know. In my experience, the true litmus test of a Naruto fan is whether he or she can glean something positive from the filler episodes. Too often are Naruto forums marred with

OH MY GOD WHAT THE FUCK FILLER THE WORLD IS FUCKING ENDING MASASHI IS A PIECE FO SHIT ARTIST HOW DID I EVER WATCH THIS CRAP NARUTO MADE A FART JOKE LIKE THAT NEVER HAPPENED IN THE REAL EPISODES WHY ARE THEY SHOWING ROCK LEE WITHOUT GATES WHAT IS THIS "DIALOGUE" I WANT BATTLES I WANT FIGHTS NEW SUMMONS NEW JUTSU WHERE IS SASUKE THE ANIMATION IS HORRIBLE THE ANIMATION WAS NEVER FLAWED IN THE ORIGINAL SERIES WHAT IS WITH TSUNADE WHY ARE THEY EVEN TRYING TO MAKE IT RELEVANT TO THE PLOT WHY DONT WE HAVE BATTLES SUMMON GAMABUNTA BIG OROCHIMARU ITACHI SEX FUCK TITASS SHITFUCKER

[nightmare975]

Actually, I wish Naruto would die. I have never thought of that manga or anime to be any good.

[ZeaLitY]

You are cutting your inspiration off. If you derive enjoyment and inspiration from a game, it wouldn't be too farfetched for you to get something out of anime. There is good stuff out there. I am most certainly not a huge mindless patron of Japanese culture, but there are a few things out there with a positive message. Naruto is one of them.

[Radical_Dreamer]

But Socrates was still brought to trial for his supposed atheism. If the whole of Greek society was basically secular in their day to day life, how could such a trial take place?

Easy.
Firstly, he wasn't brought to trial for atheism, but rather for supposedly expounding a different sort of god. This alone was a false accusation, as his defence stated that he did indeed reverence the gods. What he had done was say that he heard voices (yes, he was likely crazy), which he spoke of as ta daimonia, or 'deities'. Now, this was by and large harmless, but his opponents and enemies used this to bring the charge against him that he was corrupting the youth with foreign gods. You see, the Greeks were still strongly religious, it is only that they approached it all ciritically*. Now, none of this explains Socrates' death, because all these accusations were mere excuses (he was also charged on behalf of the playwrites and the magistrates, I beleive.) He had basically made such a nuisance of himself that he was mocked from Aristophanes' comedies onward (and it seems he thought that those plays gave people a negative impression of him, which led to his death.) Furthermore, there is also the idea that he had supported the ten tyrants (or was it twelve? I forget) that Sparta had introduced after victoring in the Peloponnesian war. Socrates' death came right after this situation, and was at the hands of the new Democrats. A bit fishy.

Finally, the true fault for Socrates' death might be Socrates himself. I think Xenophon, a pupil of his (but who didn't see the trial) suggest that he even wanted to die. The man was 60, and after that age he would have had to deal with the rigours of old age. Perhaps he simply didn't want to lose his physical and mental faculties. Also, the vote against Socrates was very, very close. In the tens (the whole voting group was six hundred or so, I think.) They asked him what he thought his punishment should be, I think suggesting a hefty fine, but he said that for all he had done, he should be given free meals for life. He essentially mocked the judge and jury - contempt of court. They voted again, and this time it was very much against him, and he was condemned to death. If he had truly wanted to, he could have avoided it. But he was fearless of it.

The end point is though that neither was Socrates killed for atheism (as he was strongly religious, holding certain things to be 'in the realm of the gods'), nor was the charge against him really on those grounds. It was all a sham trial.

*You see, it is not as we usually consider things today, those who are either hyper religious or atheists. They merely had a distinction between the two. The gods just didn't rule and control everything they did - they didn't live under a theocracy. But that doesn't mean the gods must be removed. It is rather like my brand of Christianity. I believe very strongly in God, yet I seperate the kingdom of the Right and the kingdom of the Left - in the world, there is civil law, morals, duty and responsability that is really seperate from my religion. It's compartamentalising, I suppose. A very different society from that which we see today.

Oh, I do not believe that Socrates was an atheist. One of my favorite parts of The Apology (Plato's version, I've only touched on Xenophon's version) was when Socrates showed Meletus to be a liar on this count. Certainly, as "the gadfly of Athens" Socrates made many powerful enemies, and his arrogance at his trial does not discredit Xenophon's assertion that he was prepared for death, nor does The Crito. My question wasn't so much about the validity of the charges or trial of Socrates, but rather, how the charges laid against him could be considered crimes in a secular society. If they looked at such things critically, there would be no need to cast out foreign gods arbitrarily. That is more what I do not understand.

[grey_the_angel]

wrong zeality. The book came out long before the anime ever did, and was fine on its own for a good long while. they were suppose to stop the fillers at 229. they have now moved their utter and complete bullshit to 300. they have enough story line with kakashi gaiden to move back into the main story, yet they don't.

Eureka seven came out before the manga. it ended in 50 episodes exact.  they wanted to make it longer, but decided against it, as they were going to make it go into naruto territory with filler while they thought of more plot. It has, to this day, only 1 filler.

Naruto has become only a shell of its former self.

[Magus068]

True, you can't sense the emotion to the story but it depends on the reader how imaginative they are.

LOL....  You need to read the entire manga. Of all the casket that Orochimaru summoned, why did he stop the third casket? he could have stop both the first & the second casket without any trouble. Why of all casket did he block the third one?

Simply because Yondaime was the only one who could use the Death God fuuin jutsu besides Sandaime. Don't forget it was the only jutsu that was able to stop Shodaime and Nidaime. Imagine if Yondaime were to use it on Sandaime. If you read the manga with attention, you get to see how relieved Sandaime is for stopping the last Edo Tensei summon. That's because he knows that if Yondaime were to be summoned, he'd be dead meat before he could say "YOOO dude! Long time no see duh?"


There is absolutely no evidence AT ALL in the manga that Akatsuki's leader is Yondaime. If they did bring up any evidence in the anime (I've no idea since I stopped watching it when the third row of filler episodes started), it doesn't matter since, as you probably know, fillers are not canon material. The manga is.


Erm.. I wouldn't say anything else regarding this subject, but well 

That's a good point I'll open up to that idea but I'll still hold my ground.....Grey-senpai(senpai is senior in japanese) if you can'st say something nice dont speak at all.  

Has anyone else kept up with the manga, or are you all just strictly anime watchers? Just curious.

I like the outfits after the time skip. ^^

Just manga at the moment!!

Naruto filler is not a waste of time. You should be thankful that you get to watch totally new material and that once the series is over, you can return to filler as a fun diversion. My latest post in the Quote Digest also illustrates episode 196, which completely justifies two seasons of filler by merely existing.

Well not all fillers is that crappy, there are some fillers are good to watch but some episodes has really crappy animation & some part of the story is too absurd to watch & destroys the original storyline of Naruto.

Actually, I wish Naruto would die. I have never thought of that manga or anime to be any good.

I think that naruto is one of the best animes ever made. The Naruto universe is a well defined with solid story plots if Naruto is that bad then they wouldn't so many fansites & forums in fact it has the most number of fansites that any anime ever had. I dont want them to end Naruto im just waiting for the Kakashi Gaiden to start.

[ZeaLitY]

When did I say the manga doesn't predate the series? By saying the series would die without filler, I was confirming this. Dragon Ball Z is an example of bad filler. Instead of cordoning separate episodes for all the filler, they dragged out main portions of the show. With Naruto, be happy that they're leaving the main story intact while telling different stories with filler. Hating the show for it reminiscent of irrationally hating Chrono Cross. The people most predisposed to complain about not seeing enough action during the main series are usually the ones crying foul over filler. It's active anime with your favorite characters doing things you would otherwise not have been able to see. Why complain? The good stuff is coming.

[Rat]

Hmm, I have always preferred manga over anime for some reason. Usually with most shonen it is pretty directly brought over (though not always the case), but most shojo stuff is very different when done as an anime, and sometimes certain plot devices are removed that fit much better, but that's just in my opinion. Also, even for Japan, animation made from comics tends to be aimed at a younger audience, and certain things are cut out or altered here or there from what the author originally intended in the manga (they took the condom out of Peach Girl, and I can't remember correctly on this so I may be wrong, but they took out the scene where Luffy stabs himself in the face, giving himself his scar in the anime of One Piece)

It may not be actually moving, but I've always felt that certain images can display a lot of action or emotion in them, or at least they do for me. Sometimes I get the full emotional context from the anime better, but I have also gotten the same from manga as well.

Why complain?

People love complaining. It's just so fun!

Hmm. Filler. I actually didn't mind DBZ's filler so much (despite the fact most of it created gaping plotholes that were a bit annoying), but I have been finding it difficult to watch Naruto's filler. Same with Bleach for the moment, and the place where the people I download OP from have hit is filler too. I figure I'll watch them another time, but not for the moment.

[Magus068]

Hmm, I have always preferred manga over anime for some reason. Usually with most shonen it is pretty directly brought over (though not always the case), but most shojo stuff is very different when done as an anime, and sometimes certain plot devices are removed that fit much better, but that's just in my opinion. Also, even for Japan, animation made from comics tends to be aimed at a younger audience, and certain things are cut out or altered here or there from what the author originally intended in the manga (they took the condom out of Peach Girl, and I can't remember correctly on this so I may be wrong, but they took out the scene where Luffy stabs himself in the face, giving himself his scar in the anime of One Piece)

It may not be actually moving, but I've always felt that certain images can display a lot of action or emotion in them, or at least they do for me. Sometimes I get the full emotional context from the anime better, but I have also gotten the same from manga as well.

That the only reason why I read mangas but I also watch the anime version of the manga. There are some scenes that you can't just see in the anime. Take the Mobile Suit Gundam Origins, this manga is the full version or rather the original scripts of Yoshiyuki Tomino before they rip it off in the anime & for some stupid reason they rip it off because it is too long & way out of the production budget. 

The irony of some mangas is that they release the anime before the manga.

[Rat]

The irony of some mangas is that they release the anime before the manga.

Hmm, like Samurai Champloo, Cowboy Bebop, or the anime that started this strip: Evangelion.
I haven't read much yet, though I have heard that Evangelion's manga seems to follow the same general story, but goes into a few things deeper that the anime didn't necessarily have.
And then there's always the Iron Girlfriend manga that seems to follow the alternate universe form of Evangelion... I only read a bit of that, but it seemed interesting...

Rambleramble rather pointlessly... I do like to enjoy both anime and manga versions, although for series where fewer changes tend to be made, I might have to space them out a bit.

[cupn00dles]

When did I say the manga doesn't predate the series? By saying the series would die without filler, I was confirming this. Dragon Ball Z is an example of bad filler. Instead of cordoning separate episodes for all the filler, they dragged out main portions of the show. With Naruto, be happy that they're leaving the main story intact while telling different stories with filler. Hating the show for it reminiscent of irrationally hating Chrono Cross. The people most predisposed to complain about not seeing enough action during the main series are usually the ones crying foul over filler. It's active anime with your favorite characters doing things you would otherwise not have been able to see. Why complain? The good stuff is coming.

The thing is that when watching the fillers I've watched I felt a terrible sense of displacement, a complete lack of plot and importance to the happenings and some characters sort of didn't feel much like themselves. The feeling of displacement happens as well when someone playes Chrono Cross after playing Trigger, even though aftera while in the game they should feel like home. But do not forget that Chrono Trigger & Cross are different games, while Naruto is still the same anime. And about the DBZ fillers, yes they did mess up with the canon stuff, but still they were better in quality IMO than the Naruto fillers I've seen.

[Daniel Krispin]

Oh, I do not believe that Socrates was an atheist. One of my favorite parts of The Apology (Plato's version, I've only touched on Xenophon's version) was when Socrates showed Meletus to be a liar on this count. Certainly, as "the gadfly of Athens" Socrates made many powerful enemies, and his arrogance at his trial does not discredit Xenophon's assertion that he was prepared for death, nor does The Crito. My question wasn't so much about the validity of the charges or trial of Socrates, but rather, how the charges laid against him could be considered crimes in a secular society. If they looked at such things critically, there would be no need to cast out foreign gods arbitrarily. That is more what I do not understand.

Ah, well then, you see you have proven you know a bit more about the trial itself than do I. I know its content, but I have yet to read the Apology and the like (there's lots to read in Classical works, and one just can't get to them all.) As such, you could probably theorize on this better than me. But in the end, you see, it they were religious, but their day-to-day activities were not shaped by religion, nor did they live in fear of priests. However, it could be used as a recourse, and people would take it seriously. This is most especially true in times of panic - the trial was right after the time of the Tyrants set up by Sparta, so naturally the people were a bit jumpy. Socrates' enemies used this against him. Like I said, however, it is rather difficult to describe what kind of society they were. They weren't secular per-say. What they did do is question - and this extended to the gods. They could also make fun of the gods. And yet, when they won at Salamis, it was sure proof to them that the gods side with the just and the free. Alcibiades, that rising star of Athens, jumps ship to Sparta because he is about to be condemned for sacrelidge (complicity in the 'defacing' of Herms, though if you know what Herms are you'll understand that de-'face' isn't exactly the right word...) And when Socrates is condemned, they accuse him of introducing foreign gods (they may well be thinking 'Persian' type customs, which was always a heinous charge in Athens.) What I do know for certainty is that, in the plays, the focus is on humans and the way they act, and the morals are not there for the empowerment of a priest-class, inspiring the fear of god. If so, they would not have had the Comedy they did.

Anyway, I'll read the Apology and the like and get back to you.