That stupid grandfather paradox

[Daggart]

So, this is about the first incident of time travel in Chronotrigger, where the impossible grandfathers paradox occures.

I know this has been chased in circles, but I'm of the opinion that the Entity did it is a weak argument, if only because we don't realy know the nature of the Entity (and 'God did it' arguments halt any scientific inquiry, their very nature states that the science of it doesn't matter)

I'm hoping that by opening up discussion again, we can tease a little more out of this incident. Specifically, if we can isolate a the factor that caused her disappearence.

This may seem odd, but I'm curious if it might not have something to do with the pendant and the unorthodox method in which the first gate was opened.

In order to make up for some inconsistancies someone in another thread proposed that Marlie went back in time, replaced the queen, was eventualy discovered as a fraud and the real queen was saved. This would mean that going back to the present, Marlie could still be born and Crono could still see her go back in time. (I think I got that right).

The first gate was opened and possibly created by the pendant reacting with the teleporter. I *assume* that it was created at this point as opposed to simply opened because of the unlikelyness that Lucca just happened to develope a teleporter and place its pads on both sides of a closed, but present, gate. Add to that  the pendant coming in contact with it and I think you'll see my point. So I will asume for the sake of this argument that the gate was actually created by the interaction between the pendant and the teleporter, not simply opened.

If that is the case, then this gate is actually unique from the other gates in the game.

Crono appears in the past, and meets with Nadia, who has been there for long enough to establish herself as Queen Leene. Marlie then disappears after coming into close contact with Crono, or possibly, with the pendant he holds (I think. I know they talk for a while, but I seem to remember her disappearence coinciding with when him standing closer to her. Others have speculated that it's actually Lucca's appearence).

I think her disappearence may have something to do with the nature of the first gate. Possibly, it didn't happen to Crono because at that point the gate was actually created and stabilized, instead of being in the process of forming.

After saving Leene, Marlie comes back and talks about where she was. This is (one of) the point where my idea falls apart, because her return coincides with saving Leene (though again, time delayed until Crono is present).

So, all of this definately flawed, but I'm hoping it can atleast spark some new ideas on the subject.

[Zaperking]

Umm, Marlie is spelled "Marle".

Um, I too do not think that his whole grandfather paradox works in consistancy. They call it a plothole because it's shown no where else in the game, except that they forget to remember that no one in the game other than Marle experience such a phenominon.

I myself do not think the Entity did it. If it was anything, it was the real time mechanics working. The DBT is there for a reason, you know.
Had the entity done it, it would not need travellors. If it had such a power to send a being into the DBT, it would have done so with Lavos, which the stupid thing didn't.
Also, since Marle was ejected back from the DBT, and as nothing has enough power to leave it or take it out without it's existence being recindled in the timeline, even the Entity can not do such a thing. Schala and Lavos surely couldn't, and they were more powerful and godlike than the Entity will ever even "dream" of.

[Chrono'99]

If it had such a power to send a being into the DBT, it would have done so with Lavos, which the stupid thing didn't.

While I do not disagree with everything you said, I strongly disagree with this particular statement. Being able to lift a cup of tea doesn't mean that you can lift a mountain. There are conditions to everything, or else the Planet would have been able to summon thousands of never-seen"Lavos-destroyers" to kill Lavos in CT, like how it summoned Dinopolis in CC.

[Merk]

Though, I don't see why it should take more effort to DBTize Lavos than it takes to DBTize Marle or any lifeform.

[Chrono'99]

Though, I don't see why it should take more effort to DBTize Lavos than it takes to DBTize Marle or any lifeform.

Lavos is strong enough to have some influence on time-space, as evidenced by what he does during the final battle, by the Frozen Flame's powers, and by the time Gates he created during the Ocean Palace disaster. Plus he doesn't even reside on Earth but on his own little Pocket Dimension. Marle on the other hand is just a random girl whose only Techs at that point of the game are Aura and Provoke.

Oh and welcome Merk.

[Sentenal]

Merk from FEF?

Lavos and the Planet compete and 'battle' alot, both are powerful entities, although Lavos is stronger.  We know the planet has the ability to teleport people and places across time and space.  The planet teleported Dinopolis across time and space to fight Chronopolis.  I don't see why Marle would be any greater a feat than that.

[Zaperking]

Magus summoned Lavos out of his PD, so why can't the entity do something similar? Are we suggesting that a mortal is stronger than an entity. That's so sad.

[Sentenal]

Magus summoned Lavos out of his PD, so why can't the entity do something similar? Are we suggesting that a mortal is stronger than an entity. That's so sad.

Wasn't the offical word on that was Magus just woke up Lavos, so Lavos smited him?

[Daggart]

Er, yeah. Marle. Teaches me not to post while half asleep, heh.

[GrayLensman]

Lavos was inside the Planet.  Summoning it wouldn't be necessary.  Also, given that Lavos could absorb the Planet's energy unopposed for 65 million years, it appears that the Planet had no natural defence against it.  The Planet had no physical body to fight Lavos, and it could not "warp Lavos to the DBT" because Lavos's raw power over space-time was greater than the Planet's.

[Sentenal]

Come to think of it, it probably wouldn't do any good if the Planet was able to.  Lavos could just warp himself back.

[Zaperking]

Come to think of it, it probably wouldn't do any good if the Planet was able to.  Lavos could just warp himself back.

I doubt it. Neither him nor Schala could leave the DBT. No one can leave the DBT unless they existence is reckindled in the world. For example, the only way Lavos could bring himself back was by altering the timeline, which he tried to do with Chronopolis, which did not succeed.

[Sentenal]

Come to think of it, it probably wouldn't do any good if the Planet was able to.  Lavos could just warp himself back.

I doubt it. Neither him nor Schala could leave the DBT. No one can leave the DBT unless they existence is reckindled in the world. For example, the only way Lavos could bring himself back was by altering the timeline, which he tried to do with Chronopolis, which did not succeed.

I know this isn't fact, but I personally believe there to be a power difference between the Lavos part of the TD and regular Lavos.  Mainly because of the size of the Lavos part of the TD.  So maybe a regular Lavos still full of the Planet's energy would have better luck than a broken and/or small Lavos.

But your probably right about not being able to.  Regardless, the Planet still wouldn't be able to send a powerful being like Lavos there in the first place.

[Mystik3eb]

Hmm...this talke about the DBT reminds me of my Base Timeline Theory, and how a possible "Entity" rules over it, viewing all the timelines, and the DBT. No one can choose to enter or leave the DBT without something crafted with great time/space power and control, which apparently nothing and no one has, except Serge, thanks to Balthasar.

[AuraTwilight]

or maybe Lavos/Time Devourer couldn't leave the DBT was because he was DEAD and was only alive with whatever life force it could sponge off Schala and drifting time stuff.