Poll

Do You Believe in "God"?

Yes. I Believe in a Supernatural Entity(s).
21 (58.3%)
No. I Don't Believe in a Supernatural Entity(s).
7 (19.4%)
Maybe?
5 (13.9%)
No. Man is "God".
3 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 34

Voting closed: October 30, 2005, 08:44:48 pm

Author Topic: Do You Believe in "God"?  (Read 33650 times)

CyberSarkany

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« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2005, 01:45:04 pm »
I'm a believer, but not in the god discribed of the christianity. There are to many unclear things about this god. The katholic church for example used this god to make people buy a letter of indulgence. Jehova's witnesses say his son will kill us all(donno if they see Jesus as a god). Satanist think they can become gods themselves.
What I want to say is, there are many different ways of believing in a different or the same god.
God is always some kind of superior entity, that's why I think nature is a big part of what we call god, because nature is everything and everywhere, it causes life and death, day and night, water and fire etc.

Oh another "prolly stupid" question, is Jesus, the son of god, a "real" god, too? Hercules for example is(or was?) a halfgod, because his father Zeus is a god and his biologic mother a human. Jesus' father was God, but as far as I know Maria didn't ve sex with god, that's why she isn't part of his DNA(she just birth the seed of god). So he should be a "whole" god, but if he is, and we are not supposed to have another god, what are we supposed to believe then?
I am confused...someone might want to explain it to me? I never asked my priest...
And yes, I believe in something like a god.

Sentenal

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« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2005, 02:43:37 pm »
I guess you ment Mary...

The difference between Jesus, the Son of God, and a mythical figure like Hercules is that Zeus screwed the woman, and passed his seed for his son.  With Jesus, its actually God being "born" as a human.  The Holy Trinity is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.  Unless you are Morman, the Holy Trinity are all the same God.  So, Father=Son=Spirit.  But they are difference as well.  Its confusing.  I guess you could say that the Holy Spirit and the Son are difference encarnations of the Father.

Radical_Dreamer

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« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2005, 03:13:03 pm »
Quote from: Sentenal
I guess you ment Mary...

The difference between Jesus, the Son of God, and a mythical figure like Hercules is that Zeus screwed the woman, and passed his seed for his son.  With Jesus, its actually God being "born" as a human.  The Holy Trinity is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.  Unless you are Morman, the Holy Trinity are all the same God.  So, Father=Son=Spirit.  But they are difference as well.  Its confusing.  I guess you could say that the Holy Spirit and the Son are difference encarnations of the Father.


That brings up something I never quite got about Christianity. Jesus says that he is the son of God, and also God. That seems like a paradox to me, but it's not really what my question is. Jesus is said to have cried out "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" when he was executed. If he was God, what possible line of reasoning could lead to that question? The only logical reason to ask that question would be if Jesus was not in fact the same as God, else he would know his own will. That sentance may be a bit awkward, but I think you know what I'm getting at.

CyberSarkany

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« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2005, 03:28:42 pm »
The holy trinity...yeah i think i remember that a bit.
Well TX i knew i should've listend in religion(and english) at school and sry that i donno the english names or terms.
I never saw a different in the Gods, other religions have many where others ve one, but its not a differents. The Greeks had alot, for nearly everything another one, and christianity has one for nearly everything. There is no reason for everything...anyways TX again u made my day  :)

Eriol

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« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2005, 05:11:27 pm »
Quote from: Radical_Dreamer
That brings up something I never quite got about Christianity. Jesus says that he is the son of God, and also God. That seems like a paradox to me, but it's not really what my question is. Jesus is said to have cried out "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" when he was executed. If he was God, what possible line of reasoning could lead to that question? The only logical reason to ask that question would be if Jesus was not in fact the same as God, else he would know his own will. That sentance may be a bit awkward, but I think you know what I'm getting at.

Try this link.  Not necessarily that un-confusing either, but it was a near-top hit on google.  =D

Basically the gist of it is that Jesus is mirroring earlier scripture, not calling out for his own sake, or own belief.  Now that in itself proves nothing more than he's trying to fufill existing prophecy, but the fact that he dies MOMENTS afterwards (as is foretold), IS the "miraculous" part, in that he chose his own time to die.  The statement "why have you forsaken me" is just so that those present realize what he is referring to.

Mystik3eb

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« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2005, 05:58:14 pm »
That's the nice thing about Mormonism. They have non-confusing answers to questions that most the rest of Christianity just ignore and call 'confusing'.

They explain what happened before this life, the whole 'plan' and whatnot, that the purpose of us coming down here is not to become perfect servants of a selfish God, but to be given a full share of glory our God was given, and that Jesus was God's first son who would carry out this 'plan', and suffer for our sins so we wouldn't have to, thereby opening the way for us to become perfect as our own God. It's a good answer, totally fulfills the 'purpose of religion', as far as I believe.

Other Christians call it blasphemous. I say it makes sense; if you're gonna believe 'theories of life', might as well believe the theories that make the most sense and come with the most complete set of answers. :roll:

Sentenal

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« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2005, 06:39:59 pm »
Mormonism basically takes Christianity, and with one book, reintruptes the entire thing to something completely different from what it earlyer was.  Its absurd, and thats why its such a small religious sect in the US.

And Jesus was reciting a Psalm, RD.

BlueThunder

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« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2005, 07:39:35 pm »
Quote from: GrayLensman
Nested quotes are disruptive.  Don't do this again.[/i]


OK

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« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2005, 08:46:22 pm »
Quote from: BlueThunder
Quote from: GrayLensman
Nested quotes are disruptive.  Don't do this again.[/i]


OK

I'd have given you a million points if you'd have quoted his entire message.

Anyhow, this topic really took a turn into the bizarre, although anyone could have seen it coming given the subject matter. The topic creator didn't reply to my question--I was curious, before I answered his topic question, as to why he was asking--but since I guess he's not going to reply, I may as well just throw in my two cents to help bring things back on track a bit:

I am a big question mark when it comes to God. It's called agnosticism: I do not claim to believe in a God, but neither do I claim to believe that no such God exists. I don't know either way, although I would urge everyone not to mistake the absence of an opinion as siding more closely with one faction or the other.

However, I flat-out reject the Christian god and the Muslim god--which, as we've seen, are one and the same--as well as the gods of any other religion I've ever come across, including the representation in many religions of the divine as a force without personified form. Not wanting to draw any believers of the world's religions into a scuffle, I don't need to elaborate on my opinion here, but to anyone who reads my posts, I think my views are pretty clear by this point anyway.

~ Josh (posting from Officeland)

Radical_Dreamer

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« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2005, 10:34:00 pm »
Quote from: Eriol
Quote from: Radical_Dreamer
That brings up something I never quite got about Christianity. Jesus says that he is the son of God, and also God. That seems like a paradox to me, but it's not really what my question is. Jesus is said to have cried out "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" when he was executed. If he was God, what possible line of reasoning could lead to that question? The only logical reason to ask that question would be if Jesus was not in fact the same as God, else he would know his own will. That sentance may be a bit awkward, but I think you know what I'm getting at.

Try this link.  Not necessarily that un-confusing either, but it was a near-top hit on google.  =D

Basically the gist of it is that Jesus is mirroring earlier scripture, not calling out for his own sake, or own belief.  Now that in itself proves nothing more than he's trying to fufill existing prophecy, but the fact that he dies MOMENTS afterwards (as is foretold), IS the "miraculous" part, in that he chose his own time to die.  The statement "why have you forsaken me" is just so that those present realize what he is referring to.


Well how bout that? The "Look at the context!" answer was right for once. Thanks for the link.

Mystik3eb

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« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2005, 01:37:24 am »
Quote from: Sentenal
Mormonism basically takes Christianity, and with one book, reintruptes the entire thing to something completely different from what it earlyer was.


Actually it's more of a combination of all Christianity, with a few things changed, a couple things deleted, and A LOT added, but a good part of Mormonism is like other Christian beliefs. There's just so much more substance to Mormonism than any other form of Christianity, but there's also alot more forced involvement, being it's biggest problem to me, but that also fits along with its teachings perfectly, so...*shrug*

Quote
Its absurd, and thats why its such a small religious sect in the US.


Mormonism is not only now one of the bigger sects of Christianity outside of the US (more than 12 million members worldwide), but it's also still the fastest growing religion in the world AND the USA, and has been for several decades. And most USA converts come from other Christian religions.

Oh, and actually there are three new books in Mormonism, not just one. One is the well-known-and-highly-criticized Book of Mormon, supposedly an ancient American testament of Jesus Christ being the son of god, resurrected and yada yada, the Doctrine & Covenants, which contain modern-day revelations to the prophets from God that reveal more of the 'Law of Christ' and help make members 'better people', and the Pearl of Great Price, which contains things taken out of the original Old Testament through alot of mistranslations, corruption and stuff, revealed by revelation to the prophets from God.

As I said, Mormonism offers way more substance than any other Christian religion, and probably any religion out there, I suppose. You can outright disagree with the Mormon church, call it Satans church or whatever, but it deserves respect, it's a damn good, loaded-to-the-brim church, and it's rate of growth only backs that up.

There, I hope someone learned something from all that, whether you agree or not.

Burning Zeppelin

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« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2005, 02:09:19 am »
I'm not going to join the Mormonism discussion, for I know nothing of it. But I do have this to say, Mormonism isn't the fastest growing religion, Islam is. Also, don't believe bible.ca, they are fully bully (bullshit).

Sentenal

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« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2005, 02:13:19 am »
Sorry, wrong.

The LDS Church as more than 12 million followers.  More than doubling in the past quarter centery.  Wow, what can stop them!  Hardly.  The LDS Church puts out those numbers.

They are not the fast growing. Seventh-Day Adventist, Assembles of God, and Pentecostal groups have grown much faster in more places around the world.

But then agian, those are numbers put forth by the respective churchs, so who am I to disbelieve the Mormons, but believe them?  Regardless, if we accept all the posted numbers of religious growth, Mormonism is not the fastest growing.  It will never be a major religion.

Now, lets take a survey that wasn't handled by the LDS Church.  The Graduate Center of the City University of New York conducted an American Religious Identification Survey in 2001, and guess what?  The LDS Church lost just as many people as it gained.

If we take the substance of the LDS church, everything removed/add/changed is just pissing on the bible!  It is dependant on the fact that the Bible had somehow been corrupted, and now God is trying to fix things.  For this, like I have said previously, the Bible here is "innocent" until proven "guilty" here.  You prove it has been corrupted, and maybe I might look at Mormons with something other than pity.

Mystik3eb

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« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2005, 02:36:15 am »
I'm more likely to believe someone who actually has a complete database of member info, which is actively updated, than some organization who's making a survey that ends up being far from complete to merit as much credit. I never put much trust in surveys. Honestly, how many of these surveys that have been produced by all these thousands of groups have YOU participated in? I haven't participated in almost any myself, I dunno about you.

And it's not just the church who call themselves the fastest growing, even major media groups acknowledge it. For example: Time magazine (a popular source for making the church look like crap) and CNN. I witnessed these facts being presented by these groups myself. Sure, these are similar surveys to those compiled by all the others, but I'm ever-so-slightly more willing to believe surveys compiled by people who have already been through all the schooling and are getting paid rather decently to do so correctly.

And in either case, you can prove the bible is true just as easily as the LDS church can prove all its books are. The difference is three were organzied and produced by a few people within the past two centurys, while one was organized and produced by tons of people thousands of years ago, but they're both based on claims of being material given by God. They all have 'prophecies' that have 'come true'. I'll probably keep saying this until the day I die, but it's all based on faith, which is why I'll never agree with any of these theories and beliefs again, unless I get more than faith to back them up.

Sentenal

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« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2005, 11:48:29 pm »
Do you have any idea how childish you just sounded?  "Nooo, I don't want to believe anything that differs from my beliefs...!  It is wrong!!"  You would basically rather a biased source than a neutral one if the biased one suits your tastes.  FACT:  The numbers for growth the LDS Church puts out is less than the numbers those others put out.  I don't care how much you disagree, it doesn't change facts.

And unlike you, I'm not saying that the books added for the Mormon Church have been "corrupted."  There is a difference between disagreeing with the material, and said it was made up, and simply saying that the material is a forgery, which is what you are saying.