Author Topic: The Crimson Echoes Dream Team  (Read 5132 times)

Shadow_Dragon

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« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2005, 06:05:47 am »
Yeah, like how the commercial for Like Mike said that it included "Bow Wow".. what happened to Lil Bow Wow? I guess he changed the name when he got old enough to not be 'lil', but he was definitely still called 'lil' when Like Mike came out

V_Translanka

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« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2005, 06:15:33 am »
:|  What an odd simile to use...

Shadow_Dragon

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« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2005, 11:27:23 am »
I just noticed your title... Hero of Time? That's Link, not Crono.. grr

Hadriel

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« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2005, 12:04:29 pm »
Which is even more ironic because he hates Link.  As I recall, one of his favorite terms for him is "fairy fuck."  :p

Daniel Krispin

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« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2005, 01:34:15 pm »
Crono would likely deserve such a title far more. After all, his very name is derived from Χρονος.

V_Translanka

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« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2005, 04:23:30 pm »
Yeah, Shadow_Dragon, it's not like I made it up or anything...

And Hadriel, it's so glad to know people have been paying attention to my insane ramblings around here. :wink:

Although, really, I just don't understand his popularity...I mean, his NES games were ok (really only liked the first...second...I could do w/o) and LttP kicked butt...but all these others??? ok...i admit...I haven't really played them...w/e... I also just don't understand why people like elves so much...they seem...lame to me...Heck, I be more willing to accept Orc popularity over Elves...But w/e....

Hadriel

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« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2005, 07:58:37 pm »
Link isn't an elf.  He's a Hylian.  Are Vulcans elves simply because they have pointed ears?  No; they have a distinct culture, as do the people of Hyrule.  The fact that they function in something of an advisory capacity to the Federation proves nothing.  One does not have to have pointy ears to play the part of an Ancient One.  Yoda has pointy ears; is he an elf?  If you said yes, a few hundred million Star Wars fans would beg to differ.  Stereotypical "elf" races also have a distinguishing characteristic; they are often apathetic toward the affairs of younger races, such as the Vorlons and Shadows in B5, who were probably patterned after the various races of spirit beings in the Lord of the Rings saga, up to and including them going "beyond the Rim of the galaxy" at the end of the great, epic conflict.  Hyrule demonstrates none of these characteristics; rather, it is a medieval Western-style kingdom and does not purport to be some ancient, advanced civilization.  I was also under the impression that you'd played Ocarina of Time; how can you deride Link without even a basic knowledge of him?  Because he barely says anything, he has much of Crono's character; one could even call Crono a Link clone, because Link came first.  All we know about them is what they say in mangas and other sources, and those paint both Link and Crono to be fine, upstanding citizens and heroes.  Only the original Link, the one from Ocarina of Time, is called the Hero of Time; this is because he is the only Link that engaged in time travel, as well as teleportation.  But if we're judging titles solely based on experience with time travel, Crono would take the title, because he's been to a far wider range of times than Link did.

V_Translanka

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« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2005, 08:20:02 pm »
In that regard we could call them both Pac-Man clones...

He's got pointy ears, he wears far too much forest green, he's practically always IN a forest, he also has a bow, and he's a pansy, thusly, he's an elf...Plus, if nothing else, then my statement about Elf popularity could be completely independent to my statement about Link popularity...heh heh...

Hadriel

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« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2005, 09:13:22 pm »
His main weapon is not a bow, as most elves traditionally are, but rather a sword; the sword to end all swords, no less.  They don't call it the Master Sword for nothing.

Also, what leads you to believe that Link is a pansy?  In case you didn't notice, he pushes stone blocks around without much difficulty; this is, or should be, an obvious indicator of the superhuman strength he possesses.  I'll provide you with some quantification for that purpose.

Assume that Link is six feet tall.  In the Forest Temple in Ocarina of Time, to solve one of the block puzzles Link is required to push stone blocks roughly twice as tall as he is.  The particular variety of stone is uncertain, but much of the architecture present in the Forest Temple, and especially that of its exterior design, suggests a decidedly Greek bent. Thus for the substance calculation I shall use marble, the material used to construct the Parthenon.  

A block of marble 12 feet tall converts to approximate height of 3.7 meters.  Since the blocks Link pushes are cubical, we know that they encompass ~51 m^3 of space.  A common form of marble has a density of 2670 kg/m^3, so multiplying the two quantities gives a total mass of 1.4e5 kg for an individual block.  From there, we take the equation of static friction to find out how much force it takes to actually move the object.  The equation in this case, because Link is not doing the work at an angle, is as follows:

Force required = coefficient of static friction * normal force

One can easily compute the normal force by multipling 1.4e5 * 9.81, resulting in ~1.4e6 N.  An approximate coefficient of static friction of unpolished marble stone would be somewhere around 0.7, so multiplying this by our established force gives a minimum requirement of approximately 1 MN to even equal the threshold of the surface's friction force, let alone to move it.  As F = ma, we can approximate the actual force Link uses to move a block.  The game runs at 50 fps; it takes no more than two seconds to complete one push.  Being generous, the block attains a speed of maybe 1 m/s, which assuming linear acceleration renders a figure of 0.5 Gs.  Multiply that by 1.4e6 and we get 7e5 N, which accounting for sig figs and error comes out to 1 MN, meaning that's about Link's limit outside of equipment such as the Silver and Gold Gauntlets, or the Mitts of LttP.  In fact, according to the OOT guide published by Nintendo Power (which was written in the form of a narrative, a feature I quite enjoyed) the Golden Gauntlets could "give a man the strength to move mountains."  One might ordinarily dismiss this as hyperbole, but in light of those numbers it could very well prove to be literally true.  Even humor backs this up.  I refer you to The Grand List of RPG Cliches for this:

Rule #27 - The Nostradamus Rule
All legends are 100% accurate. All rumors are entirely factual. All prophecies will come true, and not just someday but almost immediately.


For comparison, the current world bench-press record is 565 lbs.  That equals a mass of ~260 kg, which applies a downward force of 2519 N.  Translation: Link is the strongest man who ever lived almost four hundred times over.  Realistically, that tunic hides the six-pack to end all six-packs.

teh Schala

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« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2005, 09:28:45 pm »
I'd be more interested in finding out where that Grand List of RPG Cliches is... :lol:

Hadriel

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« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2005, 10:04:33 pm »

V_Translanka

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« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2005, 10:16:58 pm »
Meh, I didn't say his main weapon was a bow (and really, is that true w/all elves?). Also, I don't know if assumptions on Link's height or strength or w/e can be made completely because, really, are all the Links the same Link? I thought it was more of a kind of Ryu (of Breath of Fire fame) thing where they were mostly all different Links.

I stand by that Link is still basically an elf and thusly a pansy fairy boy.

Man have I ever been involved in thread hijackings as of late...Where's the THA (Thread Hijackers Anonymous) thread when you need it?

Hadriel

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« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2005, 10:26:51 pm »
I'm speaking of the Link from Ocarina of Time, where relatively accurate quantitative data can be obtained.  I don't claim to provide specifications for the other Links, but they must be fairly strong as well to carry on the line of Hero.

Link is not an elf in any way, shape or form.

Daniel Krispin

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« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2005, 12:20:32 am »
Quote from: Hadriel
Stereotypical "elf" races also have a distinguishing characteristic; they are often apathetic toward the affairs of younger races,


Which, interestingly enough, is neither typical of either the old form of elves in legend, nor of the Elves of Tolkien's tradition. This, I deem, is the worst example of how the noble Eldar of Tolkien's tradition have been nearly destroyed in the popular mind. It might be said that some few did indeed show apathy toward Men or hatred toward Dwarves, and also hatred for Men, but these are specific cases. Say, for example, Thingol of Doriath. Yet he is angered not only with Men, but with the Noldor, who he sees wrongly as usurpers of his lands and the cause of the wars in Beleriand. In time, because of a certain hero named Beren, he is far kinder to Men - his bitter words against the greed of the Dwarves is his death though. But most of the High Elves of the West, the Noldor, are extremely friendly to most Men. Men hold them as captains and lords, and the young Men put themselves into the service of the Noldorin princes. When Men die of old age, the Elves are aghast at how fleeting their lives are, and weep for the loss of their friends. Several times, moreover, are the Elves saved by Men, say Finrod by Barahir, and Turgon by Hurin. These are treated with the utmost thanks and commitment: Finrod later aides Barahir's son Beren, even though he forsees it leading to his own death, and Turgon holds in very high regard Hurin's nephew Tuor, even allowing, gladly, to marry his daughter - their child being Earendil, father of Elrond. In the older days, Elves and Men held themselves akin. The thing that darkened it was that many fought upon the side of the Enemy Morgoth. So it is not for disdain or apathy that the Elves see men, but rather as weak for their often servitude to Morgoth - and thus a danger - and some anger for ancient broken trusts. But of the higher faithful kindred, say the Faithful of Numenor to whom Gondor and Aragorn belong, they have nothing but the utmost respect.

This is an aspect lacking in modern Elves, and the fear of further distorting them makes me leave all trace of them out of my writing, save for the 'swart-elves' of my Chrono fanfiction, which I use as another, more archaic sounding, name for the Imps.

Anonymous

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« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2005, 02:10:23 am »
<3 the Silmarillion.