Author Topic: The $%*! frustration thread  (Read 485046 times)

Thought

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3426
    • View Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #3180 on: June 26, 2009, 05:41:16 pm »
I can't comment on that particular test, but the problem with concepts like Mary Sue and Purple prose isn't that they contain poor element, but that they are good elements used poorly.

What makes purple prose bad is not that it is a grant writing style, but rather it is a grand writing style handled poorly. Words are fickle, rebellious things and it takes a skilled trainer to get them to perform flawlessly.

It is a similar situation for the Mary Sue character; no writer can avoid placing themselves inside the story. When it is done well, it is a pleasure to read. But when it is done poorly, then the reader wishes to follow Oedipus' example. Mary Sue isn’t when the characters are larger than life, it is when the larger-than-lifeness of the characters are not earned through the storytelling. Good characterization might be like a super bowl commercial; totally fantastic and unrealistic, but not particularly annoying. Mary Sue characterization, however, is more like any commercial with this guy in it:



Or any commercial in which individuals fail at basic activities, like using a blanket:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h05ZQ7WHw8Y


Though to note, it seems like there is some divergence in what I understand a Mary Sue character to be and what you have encountered. As I learned the term, a Mary Sue is a character with no flaws and to who all good things occur. A tragedy with a Mary Sue character at its center would be a strange thing indeed, as almost by definition nothing bad can happen to a Mary Sue character (at least, not during the story; before only increases their mystic so that is all good).

Achilles, for example, should automatically be discounted from consideration as a Mary Sue character since, though he is important to the Greeks and all their hopes rest on him, crap happens to him. That he is doomed to die, that his dear friend dies because of him, that he has few redeeming qualities, etc all go against the Mary Sue theme.

There is, of course, some overlap as modern Mary Sue characters may well specifically attempt to cash in on established clichés (and these clichés were established by the likes of Achilles). The problem there is that clichés aren't actually bad; they're too good. Clichés are so good that they become overused. I like the taste of chocolate, but I do not want it for every meal; in the same way, cliché’s are good, but let us have variety as well.

Like any literary element; when used expertly, the device is good, and when used ineptly, the device is bad. Mary Sue and Purple Prose are just two examples of literary devices being used poorly. Not that the thrust behind them is poor, just the execution.

ZaichikArky

  • Mystical Knight (+700)
  • *
  • Posts: 718
    • View Profile
    • Livejournal
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #3181 on: June 26, 2009, 05:56:22 pm »
Did you check out College Humor's parody vid on that? "WTF Blanket". It's pretty funny...

Anyway, I typically don't read Mary Sue fics... I just like fics to contain non-original characters, usually.

Mary-Sue fics could be done very well, but usually they're not. I mean, I have read some exceptions, but it's usually lame when the author includes their own characters. You want to do that, why not just go all the way and write your own, original story?

That's what I do anyway. If I want to make original characters, I write original stories. It usually doesn't turn out well when half the characters are legit and half are made up by the author... You can just do RPs....

Lord J Esq

  • Moon Stone J
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5463
  • ^_^ "Ayla teach at college level!!"
    • View Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #3182 on: June 26, 2009, 05:57:11 pm »
Krispophenes, that quiz is flawed; I've evaluated it myself. When expressed correctly, the concept of “Mary Sue” is sound. Your rant is legitimate, but what you're talking about is, to use your phrasing, the vulgarization of literature—not the Mary Sue.

The Mary Sue is a caricature, and a self-applauding one at that. It is a magnet into which weak or inattentive writers can pour no end of errors and flaws; an extreme of indiscipline and ineptitude to be rightly averted. Mary Sues are not bound by the same laws as other characters in a story. They're immune, almost invincible to imperfection: Even their suffering only makes them look better. They are desire's indiscretion, idealism's bane; they are author surrogates run amok. Such writing should be kept to oneself if it is written at all.

Daniel Krispin

  • Guest
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #3183 on: June 26, 2009, 06:53:50 pm »
Ah, now I understand.

Lord J Esq

  • Moon Stone J
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5463
  • ^_^ "Ayla teach at college level!!"
    • View Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #3184 on: June 26, 2009, 07:14:42 pm »
The downside of razzing you for all those years is that I'm never sure when you're being sincere or just humoring me.  :P

ZeaLitY

  • Entity
  • End of Timer (+10000)
  • *
  • Posts: 10795
  • Spring Breeze Dancin'
    • View Profile
    • My Compendium Staff Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #3185 on: June 26, 2009, 08:14:18 pm »
Denton, which has contributed to a few posts in this thread. Although it technically does have a vibrant night life, most of it at least seems terrible; a lot of the music scene seems to be quasi-Christian metal or emocore. I visited San Antonio in 2006, but only really stayed in the Riverwalk area except for a trip a few blocks away to find a renowned Mexican restaurant. I was amazed at how quick the transition from city center to what felt like "dusty barrio" took place. I loved how one leg of the river docked in a shopping mall. I was also told that falling in the river (even if you're pushed) is an automatic night in jail, but I never bothered to fact-check it; I also heard that Austin ships its homeless with one-way bus tickets to SA. What's it like living there?
I've been to Denton quite a few times! Are you at UNT? I've spent quite a bit of time at TWU for a Women's Choir Festival I participated in. I remember it being quiet and lined with some very lovely Victorian-style houses. I don't think I could live there, though; I'm too much of a city girl. As for San Antonio, there are some very beautiful parts of town. The area outside of the River Walk isn't the nicest, but there are some beautiful suburbs on the north side of town. :) San Antonio doesn't have a very consistent look or feel to it, I find. It's very much like you described, it has a lot of very awkward transitions. I do like the friendly atmosphere and the delicious (and cheap!) food. There's four themeparks and a myriad of things to do, so I really enjoy San Antonio. I don't know much about the nightlife, since I'm not much into clubbing or drinking; I do know there's a pretty good jazz scene downtown, though. As for falling in the river, I never heard of that, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's true. I know Ozzy Osbourne was banned from our city for urinating on the Alamo, so it seems we have a few strange policies in place. :P

Yeah, I'll be finishing up a Master's. I guess music is the real draw; the university has open rehearsals with amazing musicians and even secures legends time to time, like Dave Brubeck in April (amazing concert, but the entire first third was unexpectedly really religious). Those Victorian houses are also considered one of the city's jewels (despite that on any given schoolday, they're lined street-to-street with student cars). Ooh, I wonder if those suburbs are like Austin's. I'd never seen normal looking residential streets and neighborhoods carved into the sides of hills like that; it was almost a little frightening to drive. I'd also heard that San Antonio is really, really dry, but I don't really remember the scenery going in to the city.

Quote
I'm not much into clubbing or drinking

Hah, I take a lot of flak for the same from my friends and even parents, who were in Denton in the 70s and envy that I have such easy access to music and clubs. It sounds really terrible when I tell them that most of those places are depressing and the music sucks, but jeez, it really seems that way. I was also sort of unpopular in Austin since I didn't want to rush out and inhale all the bars on 6th street on a Thursday night. I'm relieved I'm not the only one, at least  :lee:

Quote

NEED TO BALANCE THE THREAD



DOESN'T DRIP DOESN'T MAKE A MESS WRING IT OUT

mav

  • Magical Dreamer (+1250)
  • *
  • Posts: 1331
  • Gentleman Waiting in the Train Station at Twilight
    • View Profile
    • The RPG Realm
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #3186 on: June 26, 2009, 10:02:20 pm »
I haven't traversed Denton as much as I should--I really stick around the university area. Everything around the university is just damn ugly, in my opinion. The whole city depresses the hell outta me...which is why I've decided to commute 45 minutes everyday instead of living in the city.

San Antonio, on the other hand, is wonderful. I went there for the first time a couple weeks ago: did the Riverwalk, went to Sea World (I never realized how breathtakingly majestic whales were), and to the caverns in the area. Even though all three of those events were tourist strongholds, none of them had the same atmosphere. Hell, the Riverwalk felt like a different country altogether.

ZeaLitY

  • Entity
  • End of Timer (+10000)
  • *
  • Posts: 10795
  • Spring Breeze Dancin'
    • View Profile
    • My Compendium Staff Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #3187 on: June 26, 2009, 10:32:17 pm »
I haven't traversed Denton as much as I should--I really stick around the university area. Everything around the university is just damn ugly, in my opinion. The whole city depresses the hell outta me...which is why I've decided to commute 45 minutes everyday instead of living in the city.

Hahaha, I take flak for this too. "It's kind of an ugly city..." "WHAT NO YOU INGRATE, ALL LIES, ITS SO RICH WITH HISTORY AND CULTURE"

IAmSerge

  • Temporal Warrior (+900)
  • *
  • Posts: 964
    • View Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #3188 on: June 26, 2009, 10:48:48 pm »
I haven't traversed Denton as much as I should--I really stick around the university area. Everything around the university is just damn ugly, in my opinion. The whole city depresses the hell outta me...which is why I've decided to commute 45 minutes everyday instead of living in the city.

I really don't understand what you dislike about the place...

I mean, I don't travel outside of the university itself that much, when I'm there, but I havent seen anything too bad...

Thought

  • Guru of Time Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3426
    • View Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #3189 on: June 27, 2009, 01:19:09 am »
Being a newb. Everyone has to start somewhere, sometime, it just sucks when that where is right where you are, and the time is right now.

chrono eric

  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1161
    • View Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #3190 on: June 27, 2009, 01:37:03 am »
Haha, it's so strange to me how many of us live in or around Denton. I've lived in Denton Tex-sucks for close to ten years now, unfortunately. Got my undergrad degree from UNT. I also have to agree that the area around the university is just plain ugly. I've been looking at houses recently because my little black lab puppy is going to outgrow my apartment very soon, and every house I've looked at in that area is incredibly ugly.

One was from the 60's and still had the same interior decoration. Think tan walls and baby puke green carpeting. Noooo thank you.


V_Translanka

  • Interim Global Moderator
  • Arbiter (+8000)
  • *
  • Posts: 8340
  • Destroyer of Worlds
    • View Profile
    • http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/v_translanka/
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #3191 on: June 27, 2009, 03:15:09 am »
I DON'T FUCKING CARE ABOUT MICHAEL JACKSON! I almost care about Farrah Fawcett, but definitely not about Mike. Seriously, the coverage for this is almost as grossly bloated as the 9/11 stuff was (though technically that stuff is still ongoing...?)...Goodbye freaky-ass skeleton chimo~!! :lol:

IAmSerge

  • Temporal Warrior (+900)
  • *
  • Posts: 964
    • View Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #3192 on: June 27, 2009, 03:18:49 am »
current frustration:

the step of getting a level 8 magic to become a level 9 magic

(legend of legaia.  Level 9 magic is highest.  The only way to level magics is to use them.  And the step from 8 to 9 is the LONGEST)


Lord J Esq

  • Moon Stone J
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5463
  • ^_^ "Ayla teach at college level!!"
    • View Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #3193 on: June 27, 2009, 06:10:18 am »
I DON'T FUCKING CARE ABOUT MICHAEL JACKSON! I almost care about Farrah Fawcett, but definitely not about Mike. Seriously, the coverage for this is almost as grossly bloated as the 9/11 stuff was (though technically that stuff is still ongoing...?)...Goodbye freaky-ass skeleton chimo~!! :lol:

Actually I'm with you, but you know what they say: No sense wasting passion on the dead.

Asafigow

  • Guardian (+100)
  • *
  • Posts: 197
  • It's the middle of the story, go crazy!
    • View Profile
Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #3194 on: June 27, 2009, 03:24:14 pm »
I DON'T FUCKING CARE ABOUT MICHAEL JACKSON! I almost care about Farrah Fawcett, but definitely not about Mike. Seriously, the coverage for this is almost as grossly bloated as the 9/11 stuff was (though technically that stuff is still ongoing...?)...Goodbye freaky-ass skeleton chimo~!! :lol:

Actually I'm with you, but you know what they say: No sense wasting passion on the dead.

I second that. I don't really care for Michael Jackons, but that's probably because I was born after the 80's, when he was most popular. Plus, if you take away the fact that we was a famous singer, he's actually just a pretty freaky guy.