Poll

Which video makes a better CS opening?

New Opeing 1
New Opening 2
None of the above

Author Topic: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...  (Read 765 times)

CptOvaltine

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Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2019, 04:06:14 pm »
I'm glad you like this one better! It certainly has more of a trailer feel to it.

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The background texture at 0:25 is a concrete wall and... it doesn't improve the video or its concept in any way, since concrete is irrelevant to the Chrono franchise.
tl;dr: Concrete background is generic/dull, something else would be better.

I could look into another texture, but it will be hard to implement with the steel lettering. Part of what makes that cool is that the letters slowly rust over and disintegrate as the video progresses.  I will have to see if I can make that work with a sky background.

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As for the only nitpick, is to maybe change the flame forming the logo.

Blue would be an easy fix.  I'll try it out and see what it looks like!

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The 0:59~1:00 is too abrupt, the logo should at least have a fade-in instead of popping up. Also if possible on the music (since I think the 0:59~1:00 part is cut atop of the track playing) having that final note extend 1 more second and fading out should be pretty good!

I liked the abruptness of the logo popping in with the hit in the orchestra.  As for the hit, it's part of the arrangement as it serves as a transition.  So I can't extend that at all.

CptOvaltine

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Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2019, 11:23:27 pm »
So here is just the opening, redone to include the blue fire, and a different back drop.

I'd appriciate everyone's opinion about which opening they like the best, and which is most effective?

Blue Fire: https://youtu.be/80x61Ki-3Ds
Red Fire: https://youtu.be/u2w6rMlMoHg
Original (Planets): https://youtu.be/KyEDlSpcgQI

Kodokami

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Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2019, 11:40:54 pm »
I agree that blue fits the theme of Cross better than red, so I'd go with that one if you ditch the planet+moons. The thunderstorms are a nice touch, but I'd remove the thunder noise and the rain graphics (to me, the rain first looked like a graphical glitch before I realized what it was).

CptOvaltine

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Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2019, 02:41:59 am »
I agree that blue fits the theme of Cross better than red, so I'd go with that one if you ditch the planet+moons. The thunderstorms are a nice touch, but I'd remove the thunder noise and the rain graphics (to me, the rain first looked like a graphical glitch before I realized what it was).




That's a good point, I hadn't thought that it might look like a mistake. Would it help to make it more obvious, or to ditch it completely?

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2019, 08:53:45 am »
Yeah, I think the blue is more in line with Chrono Cross' water motifs. Feels very fitting!

chrono.source

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Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2019, 10:38:18 am »
Blue for me too

Kodokami

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Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2019, 11:41:09 am »
That's a good point, I hadn't thought that it might look like a mistake. Would it help to make it more obvious, or to ditch it completely?

I say remove the rain but keep the storm. Adds to the epic feel you're going for.

Balroth

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Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2019, 12:16:13 pm »
Before I begin this post, I would argue this is the most important I write, since it even includes many photoshop examples, and in-depth points for both videos.

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I liked the abruptness of the logo popping in with the hit in the orchestra.  As for the hit, it's part of the arrangement as it serves as a transition.  So I can't extend that at all.
It's alright it's not a big deal, but I had to mention it. The fact that the logo and title are very minimalistic/simplistic doesn't really connect with the "Impact". It doesn't slam or have that feeling of epicness, but it works regardless (the trailer's rusty Cross Symphonic would help, but it is kinda out of place/theme cuz rust/metallic)
tl;dr: leave it be, it works  :wink:

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I could look into another texture, but it will be hard to implement with the steel lettering. Part of what makes that cool is that the letters slowly rust over and disintegrate as the video progresses.  I will have to see if I can make that work with a sky background.
I understand the steel lettering, but it could fit with many textures/materials, like a glossy glass. Like, a "fluid" (as in, seem like some metal having some water inside), kinda like the animation of the steel lettering, and it would fit, though it needs tinkering, but the concrete is bad. Damn, a simple recolor would save the day, posted far far below (dont skip to it, read all up to it)

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I'd appriciate everyone's opinion about which opening they like the best, and which is most effective?
I'm kinda surprised. You changed it a lot, the theme and the feels.
I also did some photoshop on your trailer to help, but read my points before seeing the pictures/examples

  • The flame is definitely more fitting, though it really touches that purple tint which is kinda weird. I would say it doesn't have a color related to CC, detailed the color on the attachment below (currentColor.jpg)
    I would go for a mix of blue and teal tbh, like the attachment below (CC Color.jpg) but definitely even now it is a lot better than just orange flame. I don't know if you did it because of the "Storm" theme, but I would highly suggest to change the color of the flame's logo to the above mentioned.
  • The flame particles. As for the contrast with the logo or the flame, like the orange flame, there is none. However, in this case, the particles take the role of "magical particles" instead of "epic scorch". So in the flame particles, it is a downgrade I think.

    The above reason is why I suggested to change only the logo's flame, because orange particles would keep the feeling of epicness, while also contrasting the blue/teal, because now it doesn't really contrast the purple-ish blue.

    I get that you may have changed them because of "The Storm" feel, but more on that below
  • The feeling of epicness in the orange flame version is better. It is 100% dark, with just the flame particles and the logo burning, while keeping the song in the background. Especially useful because the pitch black helps keep the attention to what matters.
    Which is... The logo and the music. Excellent build up. However, in the "Storm" one, there are a lot of clouds/smoke or whatever that destoy that buildup and serve no goal really. Hence, the epicness is kinda ruined
  • The reveal of the logo is meh. No background texture either, but it didn't really have an impact, especially since it wasn't revealed through pitch black.

Also what Kodokami suggested is very valid

All in all, the "Storm" feel is I think not good. Not just thematically (idk if some major storm event happened in CC's story/gameplay) but it just doesnt hook me, and it is kinda amateurish. I do understand that you did it as an extension to fit the flame's color, especially when the background/texture (concreeete) is the problem, but changing everything altogether to remove the meh concrete is... questionable  :wink:
However, I do recognize you put a lot of time into this video, time that could help the kickstarter in other ways, hence I made this post super informative because time is super valuable on your part.

As of now, in my opinion, the blue opening has a better logo/flame, but the orange flame video is more "epic" and better/more likely to hook

===========
Photoshop example for this is very near, sorry for making you read so long but the points are really insightful
But before that, my suggestion after seeing both is this:
Recoloring the flame logo turned out to be a great idea. Keep it, and try the color mentioned above (also in the attachments)
So, simply go to the original flame video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2w6rMlMoHg and change the flame color^, nothing else, before you further add anything.
As for the lettering and the concrete, you say the letters are steel/rusty, but the metallic value is so high it looks more like glass, which makes it a perfect fit for a glass texture on the back, without even recoloring the letters. If you insist on not putting a glass or other fitting texture/material, just do a recoloring (detailed in 2 paragraphs after this one)
I was thinking of the glass thingy more, and it sounds a little more complicated in practice, since you need glass, and any water, but to be move-able. Aka, either 2D animation, or scrollable texture (the easiest since you can take any texture as is) or have it get some 3d physics.
Too much effort to just tinker with it really, so I did a small test/photoshop realfast

Enjoy -> https://imgur.com/a/98e1Bst <-
(also for the particles above, see the end because this applies here as well, aka orange to slowly transition to 100% teal)

My point with the above being, that at 0:21 where the pitch-black starts retreating to reveal the background (instead of lame concrete, or generic clouds/storm), having some kind of "sea" works. The example is the imgur above, but you may feel it needs to have more fluidity (aka the sea wont stay still like a picture), and if you cannot do that... an easier alternative that works too appears.

Recolor the background and letters (also the flame to be more blue like mentioned). Sounds cheesy but it actually works!!

https://imgur.com/a/TzdegvT

Ofc, keep the flame particles, orange. The flame is exactly the color i was mentioning, the feels are epic, while having that underwater feel with just a recolor and the letters feel more "glassy" underwater. If you find the particles not to fit on the reveal (because flame underwater), im pretty sure changing the color of them (slowly) when it reaches that reveal ftw. In fact, the change of colors is interesting because it starts fully epic with the orange flame particles contrasting the blue logo in pitch black, then it subverts expectations into an "underwater" feel.

I put extra effort into this post, because honestly, this trailer can be improved to greatness. And the current trailers are just doing a huge disservice to the huge orchestral project you are trying to do!

Edit: I have no idea about the software you used to make the trailer (after-effects?), but if it is simple to pick up in a day, I can give it a try to at least recolor the trailer to a proper color palette and change the particles' color over time, if not go for the oceanic background texture. It would save me a lot of effort from typing these long paragraphs where you try to guess what I'm saying in my walls of text and I really want to help more   :D
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 02:23:31 pm by Balroth »

CptOvaltine

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Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2019, 03:52:55 pm »
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All in all, the "Storm" feel is I think not good. Not just thematically (idk if some major storm event happened in CC's story/gameplay) but it just doesnt hook me, and it is kinda amateurish. I do understand that you did it as an extension to fit the flame's color, especially when the background/texture (concreeete) is the problem, but changing everything altogether to remove the meh concrete is... questionable  :wink:
However, I do recognize you put a lot of time into this video, time that could help the kickstarter in other ways, hence I made this post super informative because time is super valuable on your part.

The storm aspect does play a very important role in Cross.  It's a major part of the story, which was why I thought it might be a nice thematic element. If it doesn't work, oh well!

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As of now, in my opinion, the blue opening has a better logo/flame, but the orange flame video is more "epic" and better/more likely to hook

I can use the original video and just change the color to the blue, that's not hard at all!  That being said, I've spent to much time on this already and am now quite behind on some other work. I can change the logo to blue, since that's a simple change, but that's probably all I'm going to do.  It will have to stay with the concrete background.  I may try replacing it with a different texture, but it will likely be similar/generic.

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I put extra effort into this post, because honestly, this trailer can be improved to greatness. And the current trailers are just doing a huge disservice to the huge orchestral project you are trying to do!

I appreciate the effort to help me out! It's been helpful to go over these things and to see what works, and what doesn't.  Unfortunately I'm out of time to tinker with this stuff, so it's going to have to be what it is. If he project fails because of the video then maybe I'll hire it out next time. (If there is a next time.)

Balroth

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Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2019, 04:08:11 pm »
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The storm aspect does play a very important role in Cross.  It's a major part of the story, which was why I thought it might be a nice thematic element. If it doesn't work, oh well!
It's not the theme that is bad, it's how it is presented, since it is super cloudy, no real feel of a storm (super rough sea, overwhelming thunder), it is just more of the generic cloudy that is bad xd

Also, PMed you!  :D

CptOvaltine

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Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2019, 08:32:05 pm »
Ok guys, I've added  poll to this thread.  If you could take a look at both videos and see which you think makes a better Cross Symphonic opening to the kickstarter I would really appreciate it!

Video 1: https://youtu.be/BQbJV3IUIS4

Video 2: https://youtu.be/GxGXhC4H8kc

They're the exact same except for coloring. I can make some minor tweaks if you don't like wording, or something like that, but I won't have time to make any major tweaks/new video.

Let me know what you think!

Kodokami

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Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2019, 09:46:10 pm »
Without the storms in the background, I'm kinda leaning towards red. I still believe blue fits the overall feeling of Cross much better, but at least with red you have a definite Frozen Flame motif.

Razig

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Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2019, 11:21:46 pm »
I like the blue one. It's reminiscent of the Chrono Cross OST cover (although that's a picture of a jellyfish or something).

CptOvaltine

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Re: Help me Obi-wan Kenobi...
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2019, 06:29:02 pm »
Looks like we have a tie.  You both make great points...