Author Topic: The $%*! frustration thread  (Read 486932 times)

Daniel Krispin

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1740 on: January 29, 2009, 10:23:27 pm »
Sad this is, there are teachers who forbid the passive voice who also don’t understand what it actually is. I’ve had more than one teacher who thought that the past tense was the same as the passive voice.

And then there's the Middle Voice...

I look forward to the "...[punch line]" post that will hopefully follow this one.

?

No. The Middle voice, as distinct from Active and Passive. English doesn't have it, but it can grammatically exist, and implies an action done with benefit to the self. In the same way that in the number of a verb and noun there isn't just singular and plural, but also dual. Or in mood not just indicitive and subjunctive, but optative, too. And let's not forget the variant cases, such as ablative...

Heh. Whatchya expect? I'm a Classical Philologist. However, just please don't expect me to be able to list the first person, dual, aorist, middle, optative. Actually, I'm not even sure if such an obscure form would exist. Allow me to check... nope, guess not. Not sure why, but there IS a second person, dual, aorist, middle, optative. I don't think we can say it in English, but it might be something like 'the two of you wish (short action) for something'... sorta.

Quote from: Zephira
Major thanks for your help Idiom, it worked.
The thing about this class, the essays are thrown out if they're anything under the minimum requirements. Three misspellings or typos, in the trash. More or less than six sentences for the intro, in the trash. Shorter or longer than two and a half pages, in the trash. Use first person pronouns or passive voice, in the trash. No grade.
It was a classification essay, and I just have a hard time classifying things I don't really care about.

You see, Zephira, that always strikes me as strange that in lower levels of schooling we're told not to write in first person. I have read enough professional scholarly works and papers to have seen that be a common practise, rather than taboo. I myself started using 'I' in papers, and far from being frowned upon it is considered good. After all, it is generally a theory or whatever you speak of in the thesis statement that you are trying to prove. It is your work, why not speak in the capacity?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 10:36:00 pm by Daniel Krispin »

FouCapitan

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1741 on: January 30, 2009, 12:19:03 am »
You see, Zephira, that always strikes me as strange that in lower levels of schooling we're told not to write in first person. I have read enough professional scholarly works and papers to have seen that be a common practise, rather than taboo. I myself started using 'I' in papers, and far from being frowned upon it is considered good. After all, it is generally a theory or whatever you speak of in the thesis statement that you are trying to prove. It is your work, why not speak in the capacity?
I think it really shouldn't matter so long as consistency is maintained throughout any written piece.  Changing up perspective and tense is always something I try to look for, and commonly correct in my own work.

Zephira

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1742 on: January 30, 2009, 12:52:40 am »
I'm not sure if I would call this a lower level of schooling. It's English 101, at a technical college. It's not the highest English class, but it's pretty far along the line. I'm not sure what my professor wants to teach us with these restrictions, something about better sentence-level expression. Either way, it certainly feels like a lower level of schooling.
I left high school after one year and went to college instead. High school sucks. It's boring. It has no challenge. This class is challenging in that there are cumbersome restrictions placed on our writing, and subjects that the students care nothing for. It is no stretch of the imagination or creative mind to answer the questions we are presented with; instead the creativity is held back by the strict guidelines being enforced.
I came to this college to better myself as an artist and a writer. This class accomplishes neither. So yeah, you could call it a lower level of schooling.

Daniel Krispin

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1743 on: January 30, 2009, 04:30:24 am »
I'm not sure if I would call this a lower level of schooling. It's English 101, at a technical college. It's not the highest English class, but it's pretty far along the line. I'm not sure what my professor wants to teach us with these restrictions, something about better sentence-level expression. Either way, it certainly feels like a lower level of schooling.
I left high school after one year and went to college instead. High school sucks. It's boring. It has no challenge. This class is challenging in that there are cumbersome restrictions placed on our writing, and subjects that the students care nothing for. It is no stretch of the imagination or creative mind to answer the questions we are presented with; instead the creativity is held back by the strict guidelines being enforced.
I came to this college to better myself as an artist and a writer. This class accomplishes neither. So yeah, you could call it a lower level of schooling.

Hm, sorry, I just assumed you to be in high school. All the same, yeah, the perspective I'm coming from are the scholarly papers I've read (typically on some literary subject) and the papers I myself have written for various courses. As I've seen the professionals write in the first person, I think there are good grounds for it. Generally it arises when it expresses an opinion regarding the subject matter. That is, how can you write something in which you are to be expressing something new without falling into the first person?

Now, in this sense, perspective can change. That is, some of the paper may impartially be telling details in the third person, ie. this happened, and this person said this. However, it can lightly shift into first person. I suppose a pure explanatory paper should be soley in third person, but as you move along you should be expressing your own ideas, and this is only possible in the first.

As for a change in tenses this, too, is admissable, though at the moment I'm rather too tired to think of an example. But what you really must keep in mind, more than some set rule or stricture, is context and viewpoint. You can use a present tense, in a way, to give immediacy to something that is typically in the past (you see this even in other languages, such as in Greek, which tends to something called the 'historic present'... it speaks about the past using the present tense.) For example, you could be talking about this ancient figure having done this and that, and then go 'and at this point he comes into the city, and destroys it.' A change in tense, to be sure, but is it technically, or stylistically wrong? I would argue that it isn't. The prevalent past tense of the verbs overshadows this and the present, rather than setting it into an actual present, gives it the feeling of action contemporary with the other verbs. Or you could use a present participle, too, I suppose. Language is a very fluid thing, and it's a pity that it's taught through such rigid frameworks. I mean, it's certain that you have to know the rules, and there are certainly rules, but all the same, it's not so dry and simplistic as it often appears to be. There's a lot of room for adaption within the strictures of even proper language that are a joy to vary.

Anyway, that's what you're thinking, I suppose, in that you're not fond of the cumbersome restrictions. What IS it you are taking in college anyway? You say you're trying to better yourself as an artist and writer. Are you taking creative writing or some such thing?

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1744 on: January 30, 2009, 05:10:29 am »
No. The Middle voice, as distinct from Active and Passive. English doesn't have it, but it can grammatically exist, and implies an action done with benefit to the self. In the same way that in the number of a verb and noun there isn't just singular and plural, but also dual. Or in mood not just indicitive and subjunctive, but optative, too. And let's not forget the variant cases, such as ablative...

Heh. Whatchya expect?

Actually, this paragraph is about what I expected. I had a sneaking suspicion that it was grammatical construct not found in English, but having little knowledge on the topic myself, I figured I'd wait for your confirmation.

Zephira

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1745 on: January 30, 2009, 06:27:02 am »
Anyway, that's what you're thinking, I suppose, in that you're not fond of the cumbersome restrictions. What IS it you are taking in college anyway? You say you're trying to better yourself as an artist and writer. Are you taking creative writing or some such thing?
I'm in the Animation and Game Design Program, studying to be a texture artist or 3d modeler. I enjoy writing too, so I figured I might as well polish up my literary skills while I'm here.
Technically I'm a high school student, as I haven't graduated yet, but my college classes count towards high school credit. I plan on finishing my Animation course before graduating from high school. That way I don't have to pay for anything :D
It's refreshing to see that so many people still value the english language and are willing to debate its nuances.

As for the topic of frustrations... people who pay no attention to their language and constantly butcher it are annoying. Especially when they're old enough that they should know better.

idioticidioms

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1746 on: January 30, 2009, 09:40:31 am »
One of the biggest frustrations I have is that a lot of people would rather be dedicated completely to the form of any given written piece of work, while not giving a shit about originality or creativity. What I mean is, some people believe that keeping to the form of something is better than adding your distinctive touch to it.

I once joined a messageboard for poets where this was all they focused on. Form, form, form, and if it wasn't by the books then it wasn't real, it didn't count. Anything less than top form was mediocre. I've always seen writing as an art-form. I've always believed that with art, you must be able to put yourself fully into it, and that whether you have the proper form or not, can still create good pieces of work. and on the other hand, you can go completely by form and still create something good.

To say that one is greater than the other, whether form or pure expression of one's self, that's not for me to say, but I do believe that having a mixture of the two is what makes an artist really great, instead of just good. Both are just as important to have. And being a writer is the same as being an artist; no one will ever be able to change that belief in me.

teaflower

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1747 on: January 30, 2009, 10:10:18 am »
Although form is important, on the paper I wrote on mythology for Latin, I threw in one of my favorite lines and still got an A.

'Oh, this is only the beginning.
Cronus wanted babies.
WITH HIS SISTER.'

I love that line. It's phrased just as I typed it here.

My current frustration is a mysterious pain in my knee. When I've been sitting for a while and I bend my knee, it hurts like hell. And when I've been standing and I sit, it hurts like hell. I think I might have pulled something last night while dancing. I was doing a lot of jumping around, but... this pain isn't like pulled muscle pain. What's worse is the nurse's treatment for this pain.

She gives me a Ziploc bag with ice in it wrapped in paper towels.

And yes, it is a Ziploc. I see it right on the bag.

idioticidioms

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1748 on: January 30, 2009, 10:22:09 am »
frustration: nicotine withdrawals. I decided to quit smoking, cold turkey, after ten years of smoking. I've tried just slowing down to a stop before, and it doesn't work. I wonder if that actually works for anyone? I see it as a way of keeping cigarettes around yourself and is an excuse to continue smoking. Best way to quit is definitely cold turkey, but I'm probably going to be even more of an ass for the next couple of weeks.

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1749 on: January 30, 2009, 10:45:02 am »
I'm kind of Frustrated that I uploaded two parts of Mother 3 and Acacia Sgt. seems to be the only one who watched. I WANT FEEDBACK PEOPLE!!!

teaflower

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1750 on: January 30, 2009, 10:48:48 am »
I'd watch now, but I'm at the school and I need a proxy the school hasn't blocked to watch anything on YouTube. I'll watch when I get home, 'kay?

The pain in my knee is still there and it hasn't gotten better, even though bags filled with ice make the world better. And I can't go home because I have to take a final last period of the day. If I didn't have to, I could go to the nurse and demand that they call my mom to come pick me up. And even then, they only send you home if you have a fever.

HyperNerd

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1751 on: January 30, 2009, 10:52:26 am »
I feel so whiny, and that was NOT my intention. I wanted to see who was actually going to watch whenever I uploaded a new part. Pyt Fumv, Acacia Sgt., and Teaflower(?) I've got watching so far. I believe.

Romana

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1752 on: January 30, 2009, 11:32:07 am »
I'm watching part 3 as we speak.

HyperNerd

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1753 on: January 30, 2009, 12:26:35 pm »
And I'm doing last minute homework as we speak.

idioticidioms

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Re: The $%*! frustration thread
« Reply #1754 on: January 30, 2009, 12:34:55 pm »
why would I watch what I cannot play? that would incessantly tease the fuck out of me.