Author Topic: Looking for Information Regarding CE Drama/Personal Introduction  (Read 5308 times)

zeldarocks

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I first stumbled upon this community following the Crimson Echoes debacle. After reading about the C&D from Square Enix, I decided to give Chrono Trigger a shot for the very first time --I had heard about the game prior, but dismissed it for being an RPG; needless to say, I loved every minute of it and then wished that Crimson Echoes had been released. After following the development of the CE offshoot Flames of Eternity and my interest waning slightly following the January Reddit 98% leak, I decided to come back and become steeped in all things Chrono once more.

I am looking for some clarification regarding the allegations  of the Cease and Desist having been faked and the circumstances regarding the recent leak and initial saga following the Cease and Desist. I have been trying to make heads and tails out of the whole mess by scouring the Internet for every side of the story. I honestly do not know who to believe with regards to this matter and truly wish to have a clearer understanding of the entire situation as a whole.

Thank you for your time and your dedication to such an awesome legacy as Chrono Trigger; your knowledge, expertise and dedication is commendable and inspiring. I hope to make the Compendium yet another home on the Internet and my primary source for Chrono Trigger information and fandom. :)

FaustWolf

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Re: Looking for Information Regarding CE Drama/Personal Introduction
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2011, 04:22:54 pm »
I was working closely with the CE team during the project's home stretch and witnessed much of the behind-the-scenes discussion when the C&D hit. I also prodded the recipients of the C&D quite a bit to make absolutely sure there was an insanely good reason for the work of the art team and technical consultants to be scrapped; suffice it to say I'm fully satisfied that the C&D was real. (Thankfully, you can find the art team's work at The Spriter's Resource by the way!)

In addition, at least one Compendium member outside the team called SE's North American office to confirm -- and indeed confirmed with a representative over the phone.

For the truth as I understand it, you can see our transcription of Axtuse's interview with Agent 12 here.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 08:38:49 pm by FaustWolf »

zeldarocks

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Re: Looking for Information Regarding CE Drama/Personal Introduction
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2011, 09:18:39 pm »
Thank you for the interview, it cleared some things up for me; however, I'm now wondering, where you guys able to corroborate the veracity of the initial contact to Square Enix lying to them regarding the nature of the project and initiating the retaliation? Secondly, with regards to the leaked Crimson Echoes rom from January, how far along was it? Did it represent the state of the project at the time of the Cease and Desist order?

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: Looking for Information Regarding CE Drama/Personal Introduction
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2011, 09:43:28 pm »
I'm not one of the ones that really has the authority or knowledge to speak up, but it pretty much goes like this... Square Enix sent a Cease and Desist letter. You can see a scanned image copy of the letter here: http://crimsonechoes.com/. There are, of course, rumors that the entire debacle was either faked for publicity or faked because Zeality and the others were unable to complete the game and this was their way of pridefully giving up.

To say the least, I think it's safe to assume - logically - that both are false.

First, it couldn't have been faked for publicity - Zeality never finished the game. Flames of Eternity and a second unaffiliated group both got hold of the alpha/beta demo's from beta testers (who have since been banned from the Compendium) and neither group has really given Mauron, chrono99, Zeality, etc. credit for their work. Seeing that none of the original creators has anything to do with either group, Zeality and the others still haven't gotten the recognition deserved. Thus, the only publicity garnered would have been for the Chrono series. Although noble, this would be ludacris (even here on the internet) and out of character for the ever-prideful and vocal Zeality.

So the argument goes that they were unable the complete the game. Once again, false. Look at the beta - it was close to completion and entirely functional. It just needed polished up and the new tech's needed to be added. The Crimson Echoes Memorial on Youtube is proof that it had been at that point shortly after the C&D. This claim is laughable.

We already knew that Square Enix was protective of its intellectual property, especially concerning Chrono Trigger - after all, they had crushed Chrono Resurrection several years prior. A Compendium member known as ********* may have played a role in the cease and desist; he supposedly sent an e-mail to Square Enix claiming the project was out to make a profit.

After the Cease and Desist I personally called the Square Enix / North America office and pretended to be a reporter asking for a statement. They transferred me to their legal department, who quickly declined a comment. There was no official confirmation, but obviously no denial. I know of at least one other person here at the Compendium who also called and encountered a similar scenario. If you'd like, you could probably do the same. It's a surprise no actual reporters have bothered to do so.

At the end of the day there's no logic for any of it to have been faked. Also, please see Faustwolf's notes below.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 12:15:43 am by Boo the Gentleman Caller »

zeldarocks

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Re: Looking for Information Regarding CE Drama/Personal Introduction
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2011, 10:00:06 pm »
Okay, now what of the leaked 98% Rom that popped up on Reddit earlier this year? I understand that you were the one who made that post? How far along is the leaked beta with relation to the CEMemorial footage? Is it fully playable without any show-stopping bugs and glitches?

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: Looking for Information Regarding CE Drama/Personal Introduction
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2011, 10:54:55 pm »
If you're referring to me, I didn't make any posts. I only passed on information that was already readily available (mainly to prepare Zeality and the others should there be real world implications). I admit that I own a version of the 98% Rom from Reddit, and it is completely playable. I did not play all the way through however, so I can't say for certain if there were show-stopping bugs and/or glitches. Others have played it all the way through and I don't think that there were any serious issues. It was comparable to the Youtube Memorial videos. From my understanding the in-progress version being worked on was not the 98% version that was initially leaked. I know Faustwolf had already started making new tech's when the C&D occurred. The 98% version did not have these tech's - the 98% was the alpha leak.

I mean, if you really wanna play it, I bet a Google search would be fruitful.

This whole scenario has been quite tragic. Seeing that you're new around here, you wouldn't believe the talent and passion for the Chronoverse that was ongoing. Kajar Laboratories was closed as a result. That in itself is reason enough for it to be genuine.

Luckily, there are a few Chrono fangames in the works that do not include ROM hacking or manipulation.

PS - If I have any information wrong, please correct me.

FaustWolf

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Re: Looking for Information Regarding CE Drama/Personal Introduction
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2011, 10:58:17 pm »
Hee hee, it was someone who went by the handle "buu700" or something like that who leaked whatever was going on in January -- not "Boo" (though they do rhyme!). I have no clue what the playability status of that leak was, but from what I've read, there was supposedly a bug that prevented the player from getting past "Dalton's Last Stand." That means the CEMemorial videos are still the most complete testament to what the team had accomplished. Kind of apropos, in a way.

I won't presume to speak for the CE team with regard to the character who claims to have notified Square Enix about CE's existence -- the team's official position is to downplay any notariety that person would receive. For my own part, I  believe the C&D really was the result of such a conspiracy, as crazy as it sounds; the posts he claimed to have made on GameFAQs, IGN and elsewhere were indeed made in late April 2009 to my recollection, and he claims to have directed Square Enix to those very posts in the supposed denunciation email. The circumstances are too much of a coincidence in my mind. I think everyone's erased the guy's messages, but you'll find plenty of talk if you search the Compendium's news archives circa May, June and July 2009. If you wish to launch an investigation of the facts, you'll find all the person's aliases and can run searches on those at archive.org if need be. Respecting the CE team's wishes, I won't call any more attention to them than that.

The takeaway message as I see it is a frightening one: fan projects of all stripes can indeed be sunk by people who don't like them for whatever reason; if challenged directly to protect their rights, an IP owner may take notice of a fan project that would have passed under the radar otherwise. The person who made the denunciation email claims that he was on some kind of crusade to encourage original IP, but my guess is he simply felt left out of the Chrono modding community. If that's the case, I just wish he would have said something instead of festering in the quiet until he blew up and decided to dash everybody's work; I'd already welcomed him into the testing team for Magus Unmasked and thought he did a fine job there. And I thought I made that clear to him. But there will always be a little part of me that whispers, "what if..."
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 11:02:58 pm by FaustWolf »

zeldarocks

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Re: Looking for Information Regarding CE Drama/Personal Introduction
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2011, 11:26:52 pm »
That's exactly how I feel even now, I keep on thinking "what if the game had been completed" "What if CC would have leaked the beta at a later date. " Even now, I cannot get CE out of my head as the true conclusion to the Trigger saga; I feel like Chrono Trigger is not the end of the story, but merely the beginning, that CE truly stands as the conclusion, even if not officially canon. It's a bit of a gnawing feeling overall: that CE should be there alongside Trigger, that it should not have been stopped...

Yet, I respect the wishes of the Compendium, I know for a a fact that I would not have leaked anything if placed in that situation...

I have been in contact with the Flames of Eternity team, and it seems like he doesn't hold a very favorable opinion of Agent 12... I don't like the direction that Flames of Eternity is taking, and truly wish that CE could somehow be completed... If I had the knowhow, I would take it upon myself to see it to completion.



TheMage

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Re: Looking for Information Regarding CE Drama/Personal Introduction
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2011, 12:20:34 am »
That Dalton bug was in the one released way back when as well but it was easy to fix if you know what your doing- so I hear that is. heh heh. . .

I remember playing the original demo of CT:CE and thought it WAS dead durring the 4 or 5 year wait than BAM it was nearly ready to be released- which was very very exciting than of course the C&D hit. the C&D hit us all pretty hard and changed Kajar Labs forever. :(

But i like to imagine someone out there who is not flames of eternity might be working on it. Who knows? :D