Doppelgangers in the Black Omen

[Zaperking]

Lavos is a girl, and Lavos entrapped Schala while they were falling, but not fully merged. Schala summoned the storm and everything before Lavos truelly started intergrating with her.

[Lord J Esq]

Lavos is a girl, and Lavos entrapped Schala while they were falling, but not fully merged. Schala summoned the storm and everything before Lavos truelly started intergrating with her.

Edit: Whoops! I got blasted there by Mr. Guru of Reason, Moderator Extraordinaire. Anyhow, my question, delivered in less allegorical terms, is...how do you figure pretty much everything you just said? Did I miss a discussion in another thread, or what?

[Zaperking]

Lavos is a girl, and Lavos entrapped Schala while they were falling, but not fully merged. Schala summoned the storm and everything before Lavos truelly started intergrating with her.

Edit: Whoops! I got blasted there by Mr. Guru of Reason, Moderator Extraordinaire. Anyhow, my question, delivered in less allegorical terms, is...how do you figure pretty much everything you just said? Did I miss a discussion in another thread, or what?

Ah.... What?
Lucca states pretty much all of that. And Lavos's gender is female... Well atleast the TD's is..... And it shouldn't only be that way cuz of Schala, cuz that would mean that Schala is pretty much incontrol.

[Chrono'99]

Ah.... What?
Lucca states pretty much all of that. And Lavos's gender is female... Well atleast the TD's is..... And it shouldn't only be that way cuz of Schala, cuz that would mean that Schala is pretty much incontrol.

Lavos isn't the Time Devourer. The Time Devourer is Lavos merged with Schala and the Dragon God, who's actually a Dragon Goddess.

[SilentMartyr]

Silent, I thought Lavos would actually be dead in the DBT had he and Schala not began to merge, so I assume it's when he becomes the Time Devourer.

Hmm....that makes sense, but for some reason I don't like it. I have no idea why, but something in the back of my head is screaming that there is something wrong with that statement.

[Mystik3eb]

...after reading this whole thread, I've come to one conclusion:

We, as a Chrono fan body, have no idea what the floating images of the main party are. Our guesses have been clones and holograms, but usage is where we really disagree.

I personally think we take too many details too seriously. Chrono Trigger was made a decade ago, when games weren't nearly as deep as they are now, especially Chrono Cross. Chrono Trigger had alot of depth, but alot of it was comprised of gameplay, convenience, and other stuff. Seriously. I think we need to not look at so many minor details as if they really are important and planned that specific way, because they most likely aren't. It didn't take the developers more than a couple years to make this game, especially not the scenario people, etc.

Like with the Bend of Time. I'm convinced it's merely an easter egg where you can easily get shiny materials, fight characters from the first game for excitement value, and get the Dreamers Sarong, a kick-ass accessory. It doesn't need to have any importance/significane to the world and story because...it doesn't! It's a side place that offers nothing to the story. If we were to care about the actual existence of the Bend of Time, then we'd really need to take into account the realistic approach of EVERY possible ending in both games and where those dimensions went, the possibility of killing Magus, the possibility of not reviving Crono, the possibility of doing any combination of the side quests at the end of CT, etc.

Please, people. As deep as the Chrono world is, they're still a game, and being a game comes with those quirks of not being completely and totally detailed to make sense.

As far as I'm concerned, the doppelgangers are just there as a cool little "whoa, what ARE those?" I actually somewhat agree with the comment made that Square put it in so fans would argue about it for hours, haha.


And Zaper, where in the HELL did you hear they're remaking CT for PSP? I'd need to see proof of that. I check in on GameFAQs everyday, and that headline hasn't popped up yet that I've seen. Please, by all means, prove me wrong.

[Fox]

Although it isn't proven, and that the opposite seems to be implied by the things you actually see him do, I think Lavos is sentient. After all, I highly doubt that a non-sentient being could corrupt zeal, manipulate the evolution of an entire planet, and pull things through time. As for why he seems to react so instinctively, I think its because he's barely awake. It seems to be implied many times that lavos is sleeping. His actions seemed somewhat similar to someone being woke up by an alarm, the hitting the snooze button and going back to sleep. Of course, if he's asleep all the time, he wouldn't be able to the things that make me think that he's sentient, so I think he wakes up occassionally, just not when your around, save perhaps the final battle.
  Now, assuming that some of the party members do something else important after they're done time traveling, what would hapen if they died fighting lavos? Would you want to find out, or would it be easier to make a clones to send back to their original times afterwards? Personally I think the clones. I also think that lavos, or maybe zeal, kinda thought the same thing, and that the clones were to preserve the timeline after killing crono and co. And yes, this does assume that magus dies in the lavos timeline.

[thoby123]

Yeah, Zeal would have been brainwashed by Lavos.

[Lin_Zhen_Quan]

lavos is not male or female, it is able to reproduce without a sexual partner therefore it is asexual, genderless.

[Zaperking]

lavos is not male or female, it is able to reproduce without a sexual partner therefore it is asexual, genderless.

The Time Devourer is female though. If it is based on Schala, that means she's the dominant one...

[Daggart]

The time devourer is made up of Schalla and Lavos. Lavos may be male or female or both or neither, we dont know. Schalla is quite obviously female.

You keep saying that because the time devourer is female, Lavos was cause Lavos is dominent. However, the time devourer is NOT female, atleast not in the typical sence.

In fact, the Lavos portion looks like its either male, female, both or neither as Lavos was and the Schalla portion is female, simply because schalla was. Schalla merged with Lavos, and I highly doubt she'd keep lose her female appearence completely in the merger and grow male bits simply because of what Lavos's base gender may or may not be.

I'm pretty certain that the Schalla portion has nothing to do with who's dominent, it has to do with the fact that it was a female body that merged with Lavos.

[AuraTwilight]

and either way, who says they're fully merged by that point anyway?

[Wiesty]

Maybe Lavos was planning on making clones to defeat Crono and co. by making clones of them, but we arrive early and the clones aren't finished yet.

I highly doubt Lavos knew of Chrono and Co. It wasn't like they were his arch-nemesis. And if he did, he probably knew there were 1,000,000 other people out there, waiting to kick his ass.

[ZeaLitY]

Note: Lavos's sentience will be addressed when that forum's time comes.

Inquiry

What is the purpose of the Black Omen clones of the party seen in the hall of the Mammon Machine?

Psychological Warfare

The clones were intended to dishearten Crono and his friends upon sight. A similar tactic was used by Magus in 600 A.D., suggesting the possibility that this craft is a tenet of Zeal's combative magical practices.

Study and Security

Legend of the Past

The clones were holograms studied by Queen Zeal prior to combat. As the Black Omen was the central headquarters, its security system was probably capable of generating such representations of intruders, allowing the boss at the back to know exactly what to expect.

Thematic Presentation

Lord J Esq

Going on my assumption that there is a purpose to the six doppelgangers, besides idle fancy, I would imagine that the doppelgangers and their limbo at the heart of the Black Omen represent the relationship between Lavos and humanity. It is a way of saying there’s a little Lavos in all of us, and that we have been corrupted from our true nature because of this. Thus, to defeat Lavos absolutely, we must not only destroy Lavos’ physical form, but also overcome the enemy within ourselves. I think the whole point of the doppelgangers is to show us that Lavos is a part of us, and we are a part of Lavos, and that we ourselves are therefore as much a part of the problem as of the solution.

Chrono Trigger and definitely Chrono Cross are steeped with motifs that link most of humanity’s highest creative achievements with Lavos’ destructive emanations, and I think seeing the six doppelgangers is supposed to cause the player a moment of soul-searching. Maybe call it the moral of the story: “Oh! Lavos isn’t truly foreign Lavos is inside us.” What was it that Masa said? “I guess it means that a Hero’s power comes from within.” Precisely! And, to put it all together, so too does a hero’s weakness also come from within. Are we merely pawns of Lavos, who controls our DNA and plans to rain destruction upon the world? No more than we are pawns of our own temptations for corruption. But there is an important difference! If we are not pawns of evil, if instead we are accomplices to it, then we can reform our own conduct.

[ChronoMagus]

Study and Security (SS) theory raises a problem.   Acording to it Queen Zea and the Black Omenl would have to have seen all 6... but what if all she never met all 6?  Technically she would have to only needed to know 3.  And also if Magus is in your party, why is he not shown as an intruder?  I mean he is one of the most powerful members in your party.  So it would be beneficial for Zeal to examine him.