Author Topic: Happy Independence Day!  (Read 9626 times)

V_Translanka

  • Interim Global Moderator
  • Arbiter (+8000)
  • *
  • Posts: 8340
  • Destroyer of Worlds
    • View Profile
    • http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/v_translanka/
Re: Happy Independence Day!
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2009, 02:50:13 am »
What exactly is "good" courage? Is there "bad" courage...? >_>

Oh, and simply replacing "Lord your God" with "People" would make it grammatically incorrect. :P

It also just makes less sense (well, as less as you can when the alternative is, "because that big imaginary guy in the sky is watching you")...O_o

IAmSerge

  • Temporal Warrior (+900)
  • *
  • Posts: 964
    • View Profile
Re: Happy Independence Day!
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2009, 02:58:45 am »
I'm betting good courage was a way to say "bountiful, plentiful", or lots of...  like good amounts of courage.

Truthordeal

  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1133
  • Dunno what's supposed to go here. Oh now I see.
    • View Profile
    • Youtube Account
Re: Happy Independence Day!
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2009, 03:10:18 am »
What exactly is "good" courage? Is there "bad" courage...? >_>

Oh, and simply replacing "Lord your God" with "People" would make it grammatically incorrect. :P

It also just makes less sense (well, as less as you can when the alternative is, "because that big imaginary guy in the sky is watching you")...O_o

"Have I not commanded you? Be strong and of good courage; do not be afraid, nor be dismayed, for the people are with you wherever you go."

Consider it a spiritual connection. The people aren't with them physically, so much as hoping for their safety.


Oh, why the hell am I jumping through these hoops?

Its a religious quote. Its meant to be inspirational. Today is the Fourth of July, which is supposed to be inspirational to people. If you don't like the religious aspect of the picture then for God's sake just ignore the damn thing. It's not going to hurt you, and its not abridging anyone's right to practice whatever religion or lack thereof they want by existing on this thread.

Lord J Esq

  • Moon Stone J
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5463
  • ^_^ "Ayla teach at college level!!"
    • View Profile
Re: Happy Independence Day!
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2009, 03:40:12 am »
What's with all the fussin' and the feudin', folks? The person who made the graphic didn't even quote the most relevant verses!





Joshua's story is so much like America's:

  • Exodus from the tyranny of Pharaoh
    Secession from George III
  • Coming to the land of Canaan
    Coming to the land of America
  • Raping and slaughtering the natives
    Raping and slaughtering the natives
  • Establishing a militaristic theocracy for the LORD's chosen people to rule supreme
    Establishing a militaristic theocracy for the LORD's chosen people to rule supreme
  • Eventually produced King Solomon
    Eventually produced President Obama

Happy Independence Day, Chrono Compendium!

V_Translanka

  • Interim Global Moderator
  • Arbiter (+8000)
  • *
  • Posts: 8340
  • Destroyer of Worlds
    • View Profile
    • http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/v_translanka/
Re: Happy Independence Day!
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2009, 05:39:47 am »
I was just foolin'...note the :P I'm too agnostic to pick a side. :lol: But I do think it's a silly thing to say to soldiers...

It's finally actually the 4th here. I celebrated by going against my previous suggestion on the first page that was in parenthesis (don't think too hard on it, I'm not 8))...

nightmare975

  • Architect of Kajar
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3263
    • View Profile
Re: Happy Independence Day!
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2009, 04:15:44 pm »
Remember people, this is America, where religion is equal, just Christianity is more equal than others.

Happy 4th everyone!

Unclever title

  • Earthbound (+15)
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: Happy Independence Day!
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2009, 06:30:27 pm »
People, why the hate?

How is it ignoring the concept of freedom of religion to quote the Bible even in context with the American flag?

Sure you can say just because you believe something doesn't mean everyone else does but should one compromise their words or belief just to comply with the feelings of the masses?  That's not freedom of Religion but closer to it's opposite.

Having the ability to practice what you believe regardless of public opinion or belief is freedom of religion.  Professing parts of or all of your faith out loud is part of the freedom of speech.

Freedom of religion doesn't mean shutting up about what you believe.

I'm sorry, Zeality, I by no way mean to insult you, but it appears to me that YOU have forgotten what freedom of Religion means.

Just because something might offend someone does not mean it impedes on anyone's freedom, it just means that particular offended person doesn't like it.  Well, tough, offended person, freedom allows such acts.

And yes, I know I'm opening myself to all sorts of offensive responses, well that's my own fault and I recognize it.

----------------

Lord J Esq, LOL on comparing Obama to Solomon.  There seems to be a gap in wisdom somewhere... but I suppose time will tell.  Considering some of the context of your post you may have intended a different meaning there, but I still find it funny, and time will still tell.

Lord J Esq

  • Moon Stone J
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5463
  • ^_^ "Ayla teach at college level!!"
    • View Profile
Re: Happy Independence Day!
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2009, 06:34:18 pm »
My only meaning is that the only fireworks today should be of the pyrotechnic variety. =)

Daniel Krispin

  • Guest
Re: Happy Independence Day!
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2009, 06:37:12 pm »
Heh, I won't celebrate the victory of such rebels.

Lord J Esq

  • Moon Stone J
  • Hero of Time (+5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 5463
  • ^_^ "Ayla teach at college level!!"
    • View Profile
Re: Happy Independence Day!
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2009, 06:38:34 pm »
Heh, I won't celebrate the victory of such rebels.

Yes, I suppose for you crumpet-lickers it would be more like Catastrophe Day.

ONSLAUGHT

  • Springtime of Youth
  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1149
  • Crono + Panda = WTF Run!!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Happy Independence Day!
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2009, 11:28:32 pm »
IT IS AMERICA DAY!

Just stop with the religion talk for two seconds, blow something up, eat your burger or hotdog and cheer. Oh, and throw the ol' pigskin around. And if you don't have that, throw something, no matter how bizarre it may look! CATCHING IS AMERICAN DAMMIT!





That's what makes us feel special! SO DO IT!

ZeaLitY

  • Entity
  • End of Timer (+10000)
  • *
  • Posts: 10795
  • Spring Breeze Dancin'
    • View Profile
    • My Compendium Staff Profile
Re: Happy Independence Day!
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2009, 01:23:12 am »
How is it ignoring the concept of freedom of religion to quote the Bible even in context with the American flag?

Sure you can say just because you believe something doesn't mean everyone else does but should one compromise their words or belief just to comply with the feelings of the masses?  That's not freedom of Religion but closer to it's opposite.

Having the ability to practice what you believe regardless of public opinion or belief is freedom of religion.  Professing parts of or all of your faith out loud is part of the freedom of speech.

What we see here isn't an innocent quoting of the bible in context with the American flag. Rather, it's Christian dominionism.

Freedom of religion is a fundamental human right that ensures people can choose to believe or observe religious rituals of their choice, right? We're guaranteed this by the Bill of Rights and a slew of legal theory and history; in fact, the USA was rather trendsetting in laying down and protecting this freedom. Our founding fathers were a collection of Episcopalians, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Quakers, Deists, Calvinists, Catholics, and so on; just about every branch of Christianity was represented. Later, immigrants who helped America become the world's pre-eminent power brought other religions with them, including Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Shinto, ancestor worship, and other variants of faith. Several religions have even been founded. And now, in a more scientific age, increasing numbers of people are leaving behind old superstitions and god-image worship behind, embracing human understanding of natural phenomena. But despite all this, can we say we have true freedom of religion, from the ground to the sky in the American system?

  • Let's take the low-hanging fruit first. Get a coin out of your pocket and read what it says. "In God We Trust." Now, don't kid yourself; "God" is not being used in that context as a universal force, or Einstein's scientific personification, or even as a surrogate for your religion of choice. Nope, that's the Judeo-Christian God emblazoned upon our currency. (More like In God We Rust, am I right?  :kamina)
  • What happens in the courtroom if you're called as a witness or involved in some other kind of proceeding? You've got to swear on a religious text. Granted, these days you can opt to merely "affirm" that you're telling the truth, but that nagging "so help you God" is still present in the oath.
  • Speaking of oaths, what do politicians and some other public figures do when they take office? Yeah, they swear on a bible. (What a vote of no confidence, eh? It's as if we can't trust them to act in America's interest of their own heart; we have to throw in the punishment of hell as motivation.) We've got that note in Article Six about not needing a religious test, but any politician worth his or her salt knows that to not join the God club is political suicide. (More on why later.)
  • It's the fourth, and so I heard the pledge recited today. One nation under God? B, but...
  • Stepping back for a brief historical perspective, a good chunk of common and modern law has its origins in Biblical morals. It's no surprise that several courthouses still have religious artifacts in them. How good it must make people feel who don't believe in the Abrahamic God to show up for trial or deliberation and see the Ten Commandments staring at them from a statue or a wall. You should have never coveted your neighbor's ass.
  • Joining the armed forces? You'd better be ready to pay lip service to God, or at least pad your wallet for court fights, because there's a lot of goddamn God-damning going on. It's not just the official ordaining of military chaplains, either. The news has been rife of accounts and lawsuits dealing with soldiers who refused to pray, attend church services, or repeat religious platitudes as part of their training. A light example? Don't go to church on Sundays, and you'll have to do extra work while all the faithful soldiers are hearing the good word. A heavy example? Don't repeat your drillmaster's religious appeal, and you'll have a hell of a lot of discrimination and inordinate physical work and abuse to take, such as extra exercise drills and cleaning duties. Or did you think there were no atheists in foxholes?
  • The cliché joke of a pastor buying a new Cadillac after a generous period of fundraising is not really a joke: tax-free status for churches and non-profit organizations is regularly abused. I'll spare exhaustive dirt-digging on the subject, but a good example is that in several Christian denominations, workers and spiritual leaders are often compensated. Mormons like to exempt themselves from this accusation since they don't receive payment for their sermons, but they tread a thin line recently with their lobbying with Proposition 8 in California. Anyhow, this is a tried-and-true historical issue with the clergy; centuries ago, Kings were the ones complaining about the opulence and land-holdings of the religious. But hey, we've made some progress since then, right?**
  • Let's start bringing it home. The United States recently suffered massive abstinence-only campaigns across schools, motivated by moral objection to contraceptives or extra-marital success. The result? Do you really have to ask? Gross failure, as to be expected when a human problem, instead of receiving human solutions, gets limp religious shortcomings. Pity for the teens who're saddled with children now and wouldn't be if smart family planning and contraceptive, safe sex had been preached.
  • Why do things like that happen, though?
  • Could it be that Christians and other religious people don't care too much about separation of church and state...
  • ...and often unify to vote "by the book" as a political bloc? Well, of course!
  • THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT: Saving you from yourself by preaching abstinence, blocking swear words, claiming ownership of the female body, banning porn, mandating prayer in schools (to the Judeo-Christian God; who else?), punishing those goddamned fucking filthy poor people who don't take up arms for the prosperity gospel, spreading xenophobia, motivating war and hateful attitudes, and above all else, protecting you from evil science, which is great when it engineers you that new 1080p widescreen TV for watching the big game after church, but bad when it encroaches on your primeval worldview and idea of the universe.
  • But it's not just the religious right; every religious group and denomination at least somewhat influences politics and tries to promote their religious ideals and beliefs in the national arena. Is it any wonder atheists and agnostics are the least electable group of people in the United States?

Church and state most definitely aren't separated, because the religious promote religion in every spectrum of American life. I don't spend American money; I spend God-money. I don't pledge my allegiance to America; I pledge my allegiance to God, who presides over America. I'm not protected by American soldiers; I'm protected by God-warriors. I don't swear an oath to America in public matters; I swear a God-oath. And when I step outside and life my American life, I live it in open, hated view of the religious.

It's impossible to deny. Ask any Mormon, and an overwhelming majority will wish that Romney had been elected President, so that LDS policy could be promulgated countrywide. When abortion doctor George Tiller was shot, many Christians considered it an act of clear God-given justice (Mr. "Turn the Cheek and Forgive" Jesus unavailable for comment), right up to the ranks of shameless right-wing pundits. The invasion of Iraq and affairs in the Middle East wouldn't have been so easily justified if we were invading a Christian country instead of one filled with Allah-loving towelheads to protect our Jewish neighbors in Israel, who are wrapped in the luster of prophesied importance in the end days and a few convenient biblical curses. Step into an abortion debate, and you'll almost certainly find the pro-lifers motivated by religious urges. It's the same for everything else; as Hitchens has said, "religion poisons everything," worming its way into every economic, social, and political debate and belief in the United States. Well, scratch that; it worms its way into everything in the world.

So when I turned on the TV today and heard "one nation under God", and when I saw an image on the Chrono Compendium of an American flag with a bible verse on it, I was reminded that I don't live in real America quite yet. The religious right's and moral majority's power may be waning, but most of the country is still religious, and a majority of those would still be very pleased with their own Godmerica. Church and state aren't separated; church is everywhere.

And until freedom of religion becomes a reality (that is, including freedom from religion), it's the duty of every real American to call out "innocent" displays of religion and America intertwined like that flag image for what they really are: fruits of a malady that perpetuates ignorance, sexism, discrimination, hatred, and anti-human policies, and has done so for centuries. And religion will try to do it for centuries more, hiding behind tax-free exemptions, federal holidays, cheery propaganda like that example, and the idea that ignorant superstition somehow deserves to be respected and not be criticized. We have another freedom to deal with that. So take your freedom of speech and start calling bullshit. Real American liberty will come when the American civilization and government are free from religion as the founding fathers intended.



We're a nation of liberty-loving humans. Let's go the final step and break the chains of religion and irrational faith.

~

**From the above: or not? As an afterthought, fuck the Vatican. I just can't understand how any Catholic can preach the message of Jesus's poverty and good will while affirming the power of a Pope who sits in one of the most concentratedly-wealthy palaces ever to exist in human history. Ditto for cathedrals and other incredible excesses of the Catholic church. Of course, good theatrics and public relations are important if you're trying to smoke one past millions of people.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 01:26:12 am by ZeaLitY »

IAmSerge

  • Temporal Warrior (+900)
  • *
  • Posts: 964
    • View Profile
Re: Happy Independence Day!
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2009, 01:53:11 am »
Fetus =/= part of the female. Y? Female's DNA =/= Fetus' DNA.
Fetus =/= dead. Y? Fetus' cells =/= dead, Fetus' cells = alive and functioning properly, since conception.
Sperm / egg =/= fully human.  Y? sperm / egg contains partial and incomplete human DNA, which is =/= completely human.
Fetus = parasite. Y? Fetus lives inside of and feeds off of female.  Not all parasites are harmful.
So thusly, the parasite is human, is alive, and by aborting it you are effectively killing a human.

I am pro life in most cases.  I can understand abortions for the exteme cases such as if the mother had the baby, she would die.
But if its just an irresponsible teenager who had an "accident", I don't give a shit and its your own damn fault.
If you don't have the money to support a baby, put it up for adoption.

Personally, I don't give a fuck about your rants.

Mainly because a lot of your arguments are based off of stereotypes, biases and assumptions.  The majority of the rest of them are based off of those arguments.

Truthordeal

  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1133
  • Dunno what's supposed to go here. Oh now I see.
    • View Profile
    • Youtube Account
Re: Happy Independence Day!
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2009, 01:59:31 am »
Zeality, I respect you to death, but get a grip.

The First Amendment exists for my views as much as yours. If you're THAT offended by my Bible quote, then delete the post. Whatever it takes to stop my "Christian Dominionism."

But as an afterthought, fuck nuts to atheists. The same people who constantly criticize Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, or any other religion for trying to force their beliefs down everyones' throats are essentially doing the same thing by telling them there is no God. Admit it, whether you like it or not, you are still engaging in something like a form of theism by not believing in a higher power, and then being just as much of a jerk by telling those that do believe that they are wrong and you are right. I do not believe in that, I believe in tolerance. I think everyone should be free to practice any religion they choose, believe in any god(s) they want, even the Flying Spaghetti Monster, if they are so inclined, as long as they are not stepping on anyone else's toes in so doing. By engaging in the anti-religious practices that I see many so-called atheists doing these days, you are no better than the Jehovah's Witnesses that wake me up at the crack of dawn to talk about God.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 02:09:06 am by Truthordeal »

Vehek

  • Errare Explorer (+1500)
  • *
  • Posts: 1756
    • View Profile
Re: Happy Independence Day!
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2009, 02:06:28 am »
My family didn't do anything special to celebrate today.
However, without even meaning to do, we did see some fireworks and stopped to watch.

I can hear what I think are fireworks outside my room, but I don't know where they are.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 02:16:05 am by Vehek »