Author Topic: a sense of linear time in CT, and gate implications  (Read 950 times)

xcalibur

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a sense of linear time in CT, and gate implications
« on: June 20, 2009, 04:07:00 am »
Throughout the story, Chrono & the party travel through hundreds, thousands, and millions of years. however, there is a paradoxical sense of a linear progression of time in the story. for example, when you take the gate or epoch to 12000 bc, you dont always come out at the same moment as the first time you arrived. after the fall of zeal, the gate doesnt still take you to the time before the fall. so in spite of the time traveling, time seems to move forward normally for the time travellers.

the only exception i can think of is the time egg and the rescue of chrono.. thats the only time the party travelled through time to change what happened to them before (in their experience of before). edit - and the other exception would be luccas red gate. but thats it.

this also brings the gates into question.. since the gates consistently bring you to a later time than before, doesnt that mean that the gates themselves progress and change through time? meaning, when the "present" was 900AD, the millennial fair gate would bring you to 500 AD instead of 600 AD.

this would seem to suggest that the entity, if it didnt create the gates, certainly lined them up properly so that when the time was right (1000 AD) the gates would all correspond to the correct points in time to make the quest possible.

another example that supports this is the gating after the magus battle. magus gets sent to 12000 BC before you arrive, and when you get there hes already established as the prophet - meaning that he got there at an earlier point in time than you did.

Truthordeal

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Re: a sense of linear time in CT, and gate implications
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2009, 10:34:39 pm »
Watching Crimson Echoes, the team there postulated(there's a word I don't get to use often enough) that the Gates were made at certain points(starting with Crono at the Millennial Fair) throughout time and progress through the timeline at the same rate as everything else.

To use the example from CE, when the year 1005 came, they could only travel back to 605 A.D. or 11995 B.C. rather than 600 A.D. or 12000 B.C.

However, and please correct me if I'm wrong in this, because I'm nowhere near as versed on this subject as other Compendium members are, I think that the Gates were created by the Entity at the start of the game, i.e., when Marle is sent back in time and Crono follows her.

My backing for this is that the rest of the time stream is unaffected by the workings of the time travelers(unless we're assuming some kind of causal loop, but I don't want to get into that).

Throughout the story, Chrono & the party travel through hundreds, thousands, and millions of years. however, there is a paradoxical sense of a linear progression of time in the story. for example, when you take the gate or epoch to 12000 bc, you dont always come out at the same moment as the first time you arrived. after the fall of zeal, the gate doesnt still take you to the time before the fall. so in spite of the time traveling, time seems to move forward normally for the time travellers.

Looking back through your post now, I feel I might've missed the point of this paragraph. The time travelers are unchanged by the progression of time due to Time Traveler's Immunity(TTI). The Chrono Compendium's encyclopedia has an article on this...somewhere.

As for the time egg used on Crono, they simply removed his death from the timeline. Since he had time traveled before, he was immune to the change in the timeline caused by his being resurrected, if that's what you want to call it.

Here's another way to think about it, to use your example of Magus's warp:

Let's say the events in Magus's castle took place on July 8th, 600 A.D. The gate caused would have sent Crono's crew back to July 8th, 65,000,000 B.C. and Magus back to July 8th, 12,000 B.C.

Time progress the same through all eras, so when Crono's gang found the Gate leading to 12,000 B.C. under Tyrano Lair, on, let's say, July 11th, then those three days passed in 12,000 B.C. as well. They passed through the portal on July 11th, and made it to 12,000 B.C. on July 11th, and Magus had existed in that era for those three days as well.

Of course, this is all still assuming that the actual time travel takes zero time, but I digress as I don't want to make things too complicated.

Ok, I think that's everything. If you find some fallacy please correct me, and I hope that it clears things up if I am correct.

Acacia Sgt

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Re: a sense of linear time in CT, and gate implications
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2009, 10:42:38 pm »
Of course, this is all still assuming that the actual time travel takes zero time, but I digress as I don't want to make things too complicated.

I don't think so, I'm sure it takes no time. The destination, like the point of departure, is always a fixed difference all the time. It's easier to just view the gate as already showing what's on the other side than having to watch the effect of crossing a tunnel first.

Truthordeal

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Re: a sense of linear time in CT, and gate implications
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2009, 10:52:43 pm »
Of course, this is all still assuming that the actual time travel takes zero time, but I digress as I don't want to make things too complicated.

I don't think so, I'm sure it takes no time. The destination, like the point of departure, is always a fixed difference all the time. It's easier to just view the gate as already showing what's on the other side than having to watch the effect of crossing a tunnel first.

That's what I figured. I just didn't want to discuss that particular topic right here.

xcalibur

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Re: a sense of linear time in CT, and gate implications
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2009, 09:55:36 am »
Watching Crimson Echoes, the team there postulated(there's a word I don't get to use often enough) that the Gates were made at certain points(starting with Crono at the Millennial Fair) throughout time and progress through the timeline at the same rate as everything else.

To use the example from CE, when the year 1005 came, they could only travel back to 605 A.D. or 11995 B.C. rather than 600 A.D. or 12000 B.C.

However, and please correct me if I'm wrong in this, because I'm nowhere near as versed on this subject as other Compendium members are, I think that the Gates were created by the Entity at the start of the game, i.e., when Marle is sent back in time and Crono follows her.

My backing for this is that the rest of the time stream is unaffected by the workings of the time travelers(unless we're assuming some kind of causal loop, but I don't want to get into that).

Throughout the story, Chrono & the party travel through hundreds, thousands, and millions of years. however, there is a paradoxical sense of a linear progression of time in the story. for example, when you take the gate or epoch to 12000 bc, you dont always come out at the same moment as the first time you arrived. after the fall of zeal, the gate doesnt still take you to the time before the fall. so in spite of the time traveling, time seems to move forward normally for the time travellers.

Looking back through your post now, I feel I might've missed the point of this paragraph. The time travelers are unchanged by the progression of time due to Time Traveler's Immunity(TTI). The Chrono Compendium's encyclopedia has an article on this...somewhere.

As for the time egg used on Crono, they simply removed his death from the timeline. Since he had time traveled before, he was immune to the change in the timeline caused by his being resurrected, if that's what you want to call it.

Here's another way to think about it, to use your example of Magus's warp:

Let's say the events in Magus's castle took place on July 8th, 600 A.D. The gate caused would have sent Crono's crew back to July 8th, 65,000,000 B.C. and Magus back to July 8th, 12,000 B.C.

Time progress the same through all eras, so when Crono's gang found the Gate leading to 12,000 B.C. under Tyrano Lair, on, let's say, July 11th, then those three days passed in 12,000 B.C. as well. They passed through the portal on July 11th, and made it to 12,000 B.C. on July 11th, and Magus had existed in that era for those three days as well.

Of course, this is all still assuming that the actual time travel takes zero time, but I digress as I don't want to make things too complicated.

Ok, I think that's everything. If you find some fallacy please correct me, and I hope that it clears things up if I am correct.

i appreciate the feedback. i remember that there was some debate about the gates, but i agree that the entity was behind them most of the time. the magus example you described fits what i was saying, and it sounds like the CE team had the same idea i did.

its just an interesting concept that ive observed, and seemed consistent throughout CT.

im aware of time travellers immunity/time bastard theory. for the most part, they cover things pretty well. it makes sense that the time traveler can change timelines without having those altered timelines affect him personally - thats where all the paradoxes come from. and looking back, i guess even when they use a time egg and change what happened to them before, theres still that linear progression, and the same mechanic of changing timelines, even though theyre doing something to their own time-traveling past.

anyway

on a sidenote, the game shows that chronos entire adventure takes as long as the millennial fair - i guess 2-3 weeks, a month at most?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 09:58:52 am by xcalibur »