Author Topic: Something wacky must happen to the Hero  (Read 512 times)

Chrono'99

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Something wacky must happen to the Hero
« on: August 02, 2005, 09:06:49 pm »
Okay, I wrote a hell of a long post then the computer crashed, I have to rewrite it... I'll get to the point : in the series, the main character always falls victim to some spectacular and totally original coup de theatre. In CT Crono died and became an optional character, in CC Serge got pulled into Lynx's body and actually got reborn into a new human body. That's why I believe something heavy like this would also happen in a new episode.

I once came up with the idea that the main character in Chrono Break should at some point change sex and became a girl temporarily (or not)... I think it was never done yet in any RPG. The problem is that it doesn't really fit with CT:CE's story in particular.

Another idea I like is that the main character would become unable to understand the human languages and only able to communicate with animals and vegetals. It would be a nice take on the ''humanity vs. planet'' theme that is central to the Chrono series. The problem here is that it's not new at all (Terranigma and Soleil did it, and Dragon Quest 6 too I think).

So I made this topic to discuss about it. Something big should really happen to the hero (in this case it's Crono again, poor boy...) but it's kinda hard to find a place to put those sort of events in the scenario since it's already near-finished.

teh Schala

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Something wacky must happen to the Hero
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2005, 11:42:24 pm »
Do his nightmares at the Breaking Point count?

Hadriel

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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2005, 11:44:50 pm »
I say they should count, since he's being held prisoner in the Tesseract.

Chrono'99

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Something wacky must happen to the Hero
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2005, 12:02:13 am »
Yeah, it would if we don't find anything else, but somehow I think it's not as... I don't know, ''surprising'' as a main character dying or a main character exchanging body with his worse enemy. If Crono's nightmare counts I hope he would be trapped in it long enough and would miss a lot of outside events too (like how players generally do some or all the sidequests in CT before ressurecting Crono, and how Serge misses everything his former allies and Dark Serge do while he's away).

I'm speaking without knowing much though. Maybe Lavos revealing himself as a dark god is ''surprising'' enough.

Shadow_Dragon

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Something wacky must happen to the Hero
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2005, 01:04:11 am »
Maybe something could happen in the ruined earth thingie... Like Lavos would endow Crono with some of his dark powers during the fight scene, and for the rest of the game Crono becomes darker and darker (and, if it's possible, his sprite could even get progressively more customized to symbolize darkness)

Is the final battle against Lavos or King Zeal?
MAYBE, after having just fought and summoned up so much hateful energy to do so, Crono could become a mini-Lavos after the "final" battle, and the real final battle could be fought against Crono/Lavos...

OR MAYBE, Crono/Lavos could escape after fighting the "final" battle, and then cause the 'fall of Gaurdia', unless that's already covered elsewhere in the game... it'd be really awesome if the final battle could take place in the ruins of Gaurdia...

(Is it Gaurdia or Guardia?)


OR MAYBE, after knocking Crono/Lavos unconscious the FINAL FINAL battle could take place inside Crono's mind... He could have a one-way showdown with Lavos, and the Entity could lend Crono powers to fight back Lavos... I guess I kind of got the idea from Reverse/Rebirth of Kigndom Hearts: Chains of Memory, but I still think it'd be really cool

Shinrin

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Something wacky must happen to the Hero
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2005, 01:36:09 am »
Quote from: Shadow_Dragon
Maybe something could happen in the ruined earth thingie... Like Lavos would endow Crono with some of his dark powers during the fight scene, and for the rest of the game Crono becomes darker and darker (and, if it's possible, his sprite could even get progressively more customized to symbolize darkness)

Is the final battle against Lavos or King Zeal?
MAYBE, after having just fought and summoned up so much hateful energy to do so, Crono could become a mini-Lavos after the "final" battle, and the real final battle could be fought against Crono/Lavos...

OR MAYBE, Crono/Lavos could escape after fighting the "final" battle, and then cause the 'fall of Gaurdia', unless that's already covered elsewhere in the game... it'd be really awesome if the final battle could take place in the ruins of Gaurdia...

(Is it Gaurdia or Guardia?)


OR MAYBE, after knocking Crono/Lavos unconscious the FINAL FINAL battle could take place inside Crono's mind... He could have a one-way showdown with Lavos, and the Entity could lend Crono powers to fight back Lavos... I guess I kind of got the idea from Reverse/Rebirth of Kigndom Hearts: Chains of Memory, but I still think it'd be really cool


dude don't rip me off, but i was thinking of a story where lavos took over chrono's body and stuff and Crono's son would have to go on a adventure and such. still my thoughts have changed and every time i start on the bloody thing i think of something else for the beginning. but yeah.. Lavos's possess Crono was in my agenda in my fanfic.

ZeaLitY

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Something wacky must happen to the Hero
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2005, 01:53:52 am »
I'd throw out that perhaps Crono's being could be split in twain with the Entity, as a sort of fusion. Crono is critically, mortally wounded, and the Entity actively binds with his...essence, or whatever, to keep him alive. As thus, he loses most of his autonomy and thought, and the Entity is mostly controlling his body through impulses. But he can be a speaking avatar for the Entity, and part of the game can be about saving him somehow.

I've also been thinking of having a <3 Magus scenario. Not gay, but I mean, have Magus suffer some sad fate, and have the party go through the hardest, tooth and nail dungeon conceived to get him back. Level 90's monsters everywhere, bosses who use cheap crap like the Magimaster's Ultima, and some bona fide REAL traps that shave HP like Gilette. A real MAZE would also be nice, too. All this is just to prove how much people like Magus; the player would have to significantly level up, and we could make this area assured that no one will accidentally breeze through it. Beating it would not only save Magus, but would significantly alter the guy.

Daniel Krispin

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Something wacky must happen to the Hero
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2005, 02:13:35 am »
Quote from: ZeaLitY
I'd throw out that perhaps Crono's being could be split in twain with the Entity, as a sort of fusion. Crono is critically, mortally wounded, and the Entity actively binds with his...essence, or whatever, to keep him alive. As thus, he loses most of his autonomy and thought, and the Entity is mostly controlling his body through impulses. But he can be a speaking avatar for the Entity, and part of the game can be about saving him somehow.

I've also been thinking of having a <3 Magus scenario. Not gay, but I mean, have Magus suffer some sad fate, and have the party go through the hardest, tooth and nail dungeon conceived to get him back. Level 90's monsters everywhere, bosses who use cheap crap like the Magimaster's Ultima, and some bona fide REAL traps that shave HP like Gilette. A real MAZE would also be nice, too. All this is just to prove how much people like Magus; the player would have to significantly level up, and we could make this area assured that no one will accidentally breeze through it. Beating it would not only save Magus, but would significantly alter the guy.


That would be a good idea, I think. I know that Guile is not Magus, but he was intended to be at one point, and as such it may be seen that his behavior reflects on a later version of the famed sorcerer. Now, Guile, though somewhat Magus-esqe, seems far more calm and measured, not prone to rash action but rather to deliberation, holding to mystery and enigma, but more wise than foolish. It would be interesting to have such a thing play out.

As for him dying, or being placed into a state of needing great aid... hmmm... perhaps doing something that is a little different than his usual self, say, staying behind to hold off an impossible assault, or something of that nature. Though it is not like him to be so fey for his comrades, it would not be too disparate from his usual self to make a last stand before the face of death.

DivineDragoonKain

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Something wacky must happen to the Hero
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2005, 03:45:56 am »
Actually, back when I was planning an RPG demo using the RPGMaker 2k3 RTP, I was going to have a scenario where the main character switched bodies with a girl.

Daniel Krispin

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Something wacky must happen to the Hero
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2005, 03:56:55 am »
Tiresias.

Chrono'99

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« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2005, 12:22:06 pm »
Is Tiresias also the guy who's blind and can see the future? Maybe making Crono able to see some glimpes of the immediate future could be nice too.

Ex: in a dungeon, the party is about to go in some corridor at the left side, then Crono suddenly has a flash of them getting crushed by some Indiana-Jones-esque boulder thing so he stops them and tell them to go to the corridor at the right side instead... In battle he could know the enemies's action before they act, etc. Of course this prophetic ability should disappear at some point in the story to make it valuable.

Daniel Krispin

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Something wacky must happen to the Hero
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2005, 01:18:41 pm »
Quote from: Chrono'99
Is Tiresias also the guy who's blind and can see the future? Maybe making Crono able to see some glimpes of the immediate future could be nice too.


Yes, the great blind seer Tiresias of Greek myth. The reason he was both blind and a seer is connected with what was being talked about, for which I said that. Apparently, in myth, he one day came upon two snakes making out. He killed the female, and at once became a woman. Seven years later, he once again came upon two snakes, but this time killed the male, and became a man again. Later, however, in a certain disagreement between Zeus and Hera, he judged on the side of Zeus, at which Hera, in anger, struck him blind. In recompense, Zeus gave him long-life and power of prophecy beyond all others. It is he whom Odysseus visits in the underworld to ask which way to return to Ithaka.

Anyway, I truly do not see Crono as a prophet, however. In the Chrono world, Serge is, most certainly: he foresees Kid's fall by Lynx's hand, sees in his mind's eye the Time Crash, and a host of other foretellings and knowlege. Janus, too, has such an ability, I think, though perhaps less focused and less visionary, dealing rather with feeling than sight. He knows the wind of death, and can discern the presence of dark fate. Schala, I would wager, also has some measure of prophecy, if only that she is a high sorceress of Zeal, and bears ancient blood. But Crono... he may be cunning, a perfect warrior, and all such things, but he is no prophet. He does what needs doing, but in matters of the future, I think would rather listen to one of his companions than know it himself.

Hadriel

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Something wacky must happen to the Hero
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2005, 05:25:32 pm »
Going to get Crono is the first thing I do before any of the sidequests.  Luminaire rulz.

As for a main character dying or sustaining some horrible injury, it's been done so much it really isn't all that surprising anymore.  They did it in FFIV, which no one paid attention to.  FFVII was really the last time a main character death or other outrageous event surprised anybody; they'd already done it in Chrono Trigger the year before.  I know a considerable number of people who foresaw Knights of the Old Republic's revelation that the player character is in fact Darth Revan (it's well known enough that no spoiler warnings should be required) by the time they got to the second planet.  In FFVIII when Edea stabbed Squall with the big old hunk of dry ice that some stoned raver DJ must've left lying around, I was like "meh, he's fine" and ordered out for pizza.  Eternal Darkness is the only game that's managed to surprise me in the brutality of the villains; they kill player characters left and right in that game.  In fact, only three or four of them (there's about a dozen) actually live to tell the tale.  This is partially why, from a storyline standpoint, I've adopted the "brutally assault a character's sanity and emotional stability with more bloody violence and offensive epistemology than you can shake a stick at" approach.

Earlier, Zeality and I discussed fusion with the Entity as a possibility for Gaspar.  It's something you see people try to do in a bunch of different RPGs; in FFVI, Kefka swipes the Statues and yoinks their power, in FFVII Sephiroth schemes to become a god, or at least some kind of higher being, by fusing with massive amounts of Lifestream.  Even FATE hoped to evolve into a new species by fusing with others.  But how often do you see good guys trying to obtain godlike powers?  How often does a person try to become a god so they can give us all a tax break, build new libraries, devise a perfect educational program for the entire world, or even just sit back and do nothing?  To my knowledge, it hasn't been done.  If this is what happened to Gaspar, but he hasn't destroyed everything already just for the hell of it, what does that say about power and who people are?  

DDK and I were discussing the actual ramifications of an End of Time the other day.  Lucca effectively says that singularities are used to engineer Gates.  Well, if everything collapses back into a singularity at the end of the universe, what would happen then?  Does the End of Time exist as a place of mere thought, or does the universe loop on itself not just spatially but with regards to time as well?  If all matter in the universe is present in the singularity at the End of Time, theoretically all possible spacetime continua should be drawn in.  Furthermore, it's never really explained why Lavos is having such a powerful effect on the fabric of time, or if the answer even if Lavos, though from what we've seen of his thirst for power it's a safe bet he's the perp.

Daniel Krispin

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Something wacky must happen to the Hero
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2005, 06:30:49 pm »
Well, something unexpected you could do is have Magus turn on the group. If the situation was right, and it served his ends, I think it would be well within his character. And this could be done not because he was deceived or anything of that sort: if done as his free choice (if you can swing it, maybe if you make a certain set of choices in the game, he decides thus: it will give your choices ramifications) it will give it far more impact as well. After all, what ties or promises of fealty does Magus have to the group? They helped him achieve his ends, perhaps, but that makes them allies for a time, not friends. And allies are fickle at best, or at least would be to the eyes of Magus. If they do not throughout the game do as he wishes, he turns on them as a foe. Unfortunately, any quest to bring him back would turn out being cheesy, I think. So it may not be the best of ideas.

Oswego del Fuego

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Something wacky must happen to the Hero
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2005, 06:58:17 pm »
I like the idea of Crono becoming the speaking avatar of the Entity itself.  It creates an interesting problem.  I don't think it can be questioned that the Entity is essentially good, and on the side of the heroes (or, at least, on the same side AS the heroes), yet the loss of Crono would be simply unacceptable to those who love him.  Yeah, I think a battle between Crono's friends and the Entity over Crono could be fascinating.

Also, I LOVE the idea of Gaspar going back to the earliest stages of the Earth's existence to become one with the Entity.  PLEASE INCLUDE THIS IN SOME FORM!  I can think of no better fate for sweet old Gaspar, and this could dovetail nicely with the Entity/Crono idea.

OdF