Poll

Having read and understood this critique, do you continue to find the Time Bastard theory unneeding of heavy revision?

Yes, the theory works. (Please explain why.)
6 (33.3%)
No, the theory needs help. (You're welcome to try and offer it.)
12 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: April 30, 2005, 06:26:53 am

Author Topic: Debunking the Time Bastard Theory  (Read 11737 times)

SilentMartyr

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Debunking the Time Bastard Theory
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2005, 03:15:19 pm »
Quote from: Zaperking
I was wondering, wouldn't there always be a loop in the Chrono Universe? Basically in 1000AD Crono goes through all the trouble to defeat Lavos. Now how about in 999 AD, 1 day before the festival happens... Doesn't that mean that this Crono would be like the other Crono, not knowing that he would go onto a journy. Once that Crono also completes his mission, he would live in his 1000AD. For instance 1000AD 10days after the millenium. Whilst the Crono that we played would be in 1000AD 11 days after the millenium. It's like saying that the Epoch could go back 1 day in time. We should all know that the times that we're allowed to go to are only for plot, right?
Unless we go back to the whole thing about the entity purposly making those gates.
Most of the time when I talk about Chrono Time travel, I talk about time travel as in you could theoretically travel to any time, minute, second etc. just that we don't see it in this game >.>
I'm pretty sure the epoch does work under different laws than the gates.


No, as soon as that second Crono goes through the gate in 1000 A.D. he is sent to the DBT. So when Crono returns from destroying Lavos, he is the only one that stays. Same thing with Marle, Lucca, Robo, ect.

Shadow_Dragon

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Debunking the Time Bastard Theory
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2005, 05:26:57 pm »
Quote from: Sentenal
Basically, the original Janus had Time Traveler's immunity first, so to speak.  And we know that we have no duplicate Janus appearing in 600ad, so only one must have been able to Time Travel.  This is true in all cases of Time Travel.

The whole time-traveling from 12000BC to 600AD was rewritten, so a duplicate Janus wouldn't come out at 600AD because the original Janus would be erased, except for the aged version, Magus.

Zaperking

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Debunking the Time Bastard Theory
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2005, 06:41:24 pm »
DBT is soo violent. People who should have done something die. It's like Crono 2, 5 minutes before he entered the gate had a normal life. When he enters the gate, POOF, hes destroyed... Thats soo... evil...

Sentenal

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Debunking the Time Bastard Theory
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2005, 08:58:32 pm »
Shadow... No.  The original Janus had already time traveled before his Timeline had been discarded.  There is no getting rid of the original Janus without getting rid of Magus.  And that does not happen.  The original will ALWAYS appear in 600ad, regardless of the state of 12,000bc or the 600ad he emerges in, because he had time traveler's immunity before any changes to his past took place.

Hadriel

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Debunking the Time Bastard Theory
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2005, 03:27:33 pm »
We need a Time Bitch Theory to go along with Time Bastard.

SilentMartyr

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Debunking the Time Bastard Theory
« Reply #50 on: May 14, 2005, 12:08:46 am »
Then they can give birth to the Time Orphan Theory.

Shadow_Dragon

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Debunking the Time Bastard Theory
« Reply #51 on: May 14, 2005, 01:26:19 am »
Sentenal, isn't traveling forward in time the same thing as just aging less than the surroundins, so how would an altered entity suddenly become the original entity (Magus goes to 12000BC to alter Janus, becoming Janus', so how would Janus' suddenly become Janus)?

Sentenal

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Debunking the Time Bastard Theory
« Reply #52 on: May 14, 2005, 05:17:12 pm »
No, time traveling forward is the same as time traveling backwards, except that your going forward.  And I have no idea by what you mean about your Janus examples...  Janus' is still Janus...  And we cannot have 2 Janus's appearing in 600ad...

Shadow_Dragon

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Debunking the Time Bastard Theory
« Reply #53 on: May 14, 2005, 10:22:32 pm »
Ok, so I jump into my space ship and fly away at 75% of the speed of light, then after 5 years on Earth, I turn around and fly back at the same speed. To the people on Earth, I was gone for 10 years, but to me it was less than 10 years, and I aged less than 10 years (I don't think that general relativity is as simple as special relativity, so I don't think that I can calculate how long it'd be exactly)... So if, somehow, I fly away at 99% of the speed of light, then come back, I'll have aged barely, while Earth will have aged immensely; thus, I will have time travelled into the future..
As long as Crono and co. experience some aging while going into a future time gate, which is obvious because it shows them in the gates, I think, the situation is the same.

So Magus goes from 600AD to 12,000BC. Janus is altered due to Magus' presence, and becomes Janus', but Janus' goes through a gate to 600AD just as Janus would have done. A future time gate is like moving at the speed of light and moving back (I don't know the specifics of general relativity, but I think that aging less requires acceleration to a high speed and acceleration to a stop). In the original timeline Janus merely aged at an incredibly slower pace than his surroundings, nothing more. Magus' presence in 12,000BC rewrites the slowed aging of Janus, and replaces it with the slowed aging of Janus', so why would Janus result of Janus's (Janus prime's) slowed aging?

Sentenal

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Debunking the Time Bastard Theory
« Reply #54 on: May 14, 2005, 11:45:16 pm »
No, your wrong.  Time traveling is the same as going forward as it is going backward.  Its not a matter of slowly aging.  Janus' is erased when he gets to the same age as original Janus was when he entered the gate.  We know this because there are not 2 Januses popping out in 600ad.  And I still have no idea what your talking about.

And I'm no physics wizz, but I'd think if you when 99% speed of light, then you would aging would be accelerated as well.  but i'm probably wrong about that.  Regardless, if time traveling in CT is based on going the speed of light, then traveling to the past would be impossible, since the slowest you can go is 0m/s.  You see the portal inside gates for both directions of time traveling.

Aitrus

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Debunking the Time Bastard Theory
« Reply #55 on: May 15, 2005, 12:34:43 am »
Shadow_dragon, you are correct in your understanding of the theory of Relativity in that, if you were travelling near the speed of light, you would age much less slowly.  It has to do with the warping of four-dimensional spacetime, since acceleration has the same effects as gravity does (or that gravity is the same as acceleration, either way).

However, that's not what gates appear to do.

Gates, it seems, are in essence wormholes in spacetime.  Think of spacetime as a sheet of paper.  Normally, you can only travel linearly - in any of three spatial directions, but always only in one direction temporally.  Wormholes are places where the paper has been folded and the two halves have been joined together to form a tunne, like such:

 

 Now, if you were walking along the paper, you wouldn't see the hole, it would look like a continuous plane.  However, step through the hole and out the other side, and you're in a completely different place.  It would be like having a door in your house that opened up into the Kremlin, or the White House.

Now, what does this have to do with time travel?  Well, like I said, this paper is not just space, but spacetime.  When you stepped through that hole, you moved in all four dimensions, not just three of them.  And, before someone says it, yes, some gates do move through space as well as time, namely the red gate that Lucca used during the Entity/Save Lucca's Mom sequence.

Sir Frog

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Debunking the Time Bastard Theory
« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2005, 04:38:05 am »
Edit:  Whoops.  Posted too soon!  My critique is not quite ready.  Sorry for the bump.

V_Translanka

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Debunking the Time Bastard Theory
« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2005, 05:06:37 am »
Of all the threads in the Compendium, you had to pick this one. :lol: (It's funny because I really haven't even seen that movie)

Sir Frog

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Debunking the Time Bastard Theory
« Reply #58 on: August 30, 2005, 05:07:40 am »
Yo, V.  What do you think of the TB Theorem?

V_Translanka

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Debunking the Time Bastard Theory
« Reply #59 on: August 30, 2005, 05:38:11 am »
Ah, perhaps you've noticed that I haven't posted in this topic previously...Even though I chose the first option, which specifically states to explain why...oh nos! I didn't have to type that!

I, uhm...Figure that a lot of this stuff is far too complicated for me...So, I'd come in, skim a bunch, not understand a lot, and still end up feeling that TB works and makes sense. Perhaps I'm simply not reading into it enough...