Author Topic: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth  (Read 34562 times)

SilentP

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #120 on: May 18, 2009, 08:54:41 pm »
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Rumor 4: "These modders were going to distribute hacked ROMs."

Members of the wider fan modding community will no doubt appreciate the nuance in this accusation. There exists a strict code of honor amongst modders according to which modifications must *never* be distributed as ROMs. Crimson Echoes, like Prophet's Guile before it, would have been distributed as a Lunar IPS patch. Within modding culture this is the acceptable way of going about it, and a plethora of SNES-era mods, first translations, and retranslations have made their way onto the Internet in that form. You will very rarely find a fan modder who distributes full ROMs with the modifications in place, and such modders deserve a proper spanking.
Uh... so this is something that generally confuses me about fan mods.  It seems to me releasing a hacked ROM would be the more ethical thing to do than releasing a patch.  Releasing a patch both condones and encourages people to find and d/l an illegal copy of the game.  A hacked ROM would only allow people to play your fan work.  I think.  Unless I am misunderstanding something about how hacking works, and how easy it would be for someone to convert it back to the original game.  Of course, this is also only my view from an ethical standpoint... I have no idea which is more illegal. :P

But yeah, with regard to negotiations with Square, I can't imagine they'll ever agree to something like that, where you guys release a ROM patch.  That would mean condoning d/l'ing CT ROMs themselves.  Seems to me the only chance you would have is if you could release the game as a standalone thing.  And were really really nice to them.  Like send them flowers maybe.

Happy-Dude

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #121 on: May 18, 2009, 09:11:29 pm »
Yeah, had Yoichi Wada actually played Crimson Echoes, I think there's a serious chance he would have just co-opted the project. It was that good.

It's these very facts that make me want to tell SquareEnix to stop being so stuck up on their success, that people, their very fans, can produce something at the quality, or even greater, of their works...

It's not even a hire kinda thing. It's like a *special thanks to all our fans* thing.... I don't think the team would mind SE taking the profit, as long as CE is credited, no??

(>.>) ... Has anyone showed Yoichi Wada the demo of CE?

*sigh* I guess I'll still sit here and wait... I've gotten to the *revive Crono* part of CT:DS, and I think I'm falling in love again <3 . Hey hey, how do you play Hungry Hungry Hippos :D ?

FaustWolf

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #122 on: May 18, 2009, 09:20:57 pm »
Releasing a patch is still and always will be the best thing to do IMHO, SilentP. I'm sure there's been back-and-forth on this point early in the fan modding community's history, and patching ultimately won out.

The reason is, it is in everyone's power to create a backup of a game that he or she owns. Granted, it's much more difficult to complete a format shift of a cartridge-based game than a CD or DVD-based game (you need special hardware for data transfer), but the modding community leaves it up to the end user's honor to own a copy of the original game being modded. To release a pre-patched ROM is ultimately engaging in piracy of at least a portion of the original work; to release a patch involves no distribution of the IP holder's source code whatsoever, only instruction sets to modify that source code.

Quote from: Happy-Dude
Hey hey, how do you play Hungry Hungry Hippos  ?
I have hazy memories of this from my 1980s childhood. Something along the lines of tossing a bunch of ball-bearing sized...food...thingies...in the middle of a board, and then everyone in the game pounds their fists on plastic hippopotami attached to the board, goading his or her hippopotamus to gobble up the little ball thingies.

Glenn27

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #123 on: May 18, 2009, 09:36:59 pm »
I would advise that someone here put together a well-put-together e-mail explaining the current situation of things and send it some gaming sites like Kotaku.

I think bringing fan attention and support to things right now might be benefecial, though that'd be up to the site crew here what would be best. (actually, maybe they should wait for a response patiently and do all the talking stuff first)

FaustWolf

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #124 on: May 18, 2009, 09:51:33 pm »
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(actually, maybe they should wait for a response patiently and do all the talking stuff first)
This is best. Approaching news organizations with a statement direct from Square in addition to the C&D would help us get our foot in the door. Square being forced to issue a statement by the negative backlash would be extremely newsworthy I imagine, and emphasize fan power.

Dapifer

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #125 on: May 18, 2009, 09:55:24 pm »
Go Fan Power!

I rally to this cause!

SilentP

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #126 on: May 18, 2009, 09:58:07 pm »
Releasing a patch is still and always will be the best thing to do IMHO, SilentP. I'm sure there's been back-and-forth on this point early in the fan modding community's history, and patching ultimately won out.

The reason is, it is in everyone's power to create a backup of a game that he or she owns. Granted, it's much more difficult to complete a format shift of a cartridge-based game than a CD or DVD-based game (you need special hardware for data transfer), but the modding community leaves it up to the end user's honor to own a copy of the original game being modded. To release a pre-patched ROM is ultimately engaging in piracy of at least a portion of the original work; to release a patch involves no distribution of the IP holder's source code whatsoever, only instruction sets to modify that source code.
Ah. I figured these kinds of issues must have been considered at some point by the community, but I never really understood the reasoning behind that decision (I, probably understandably, forgot about the people who actually make legal backups of their snes games, rofl).  So, thanks for clarifying that. :P

However, because of the fact that I'm sure 99.9% of people who would d/l this patch would have obtained a CT ROM illegally, and because of the fact that Square undoubtedly knows this, I'd still be pretty shocked to learn they would ever allow this to be released in patch form now that the C&D is out.  In addition, as long as you intend to release it in patch form, it seems to me Square has a pretty easy out in any press releases, through that argument.  But then, this is probably another one of those things you've already considered. :P [Edit: and I would understand if you can't comment for legal reasons or something :P]
« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 10:06:17 pm by SilentP »

kattrali

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #127 on: May 18, 2009, 10:22:35 pm »
However, because of the fact that I'm sure 99.9% of people who would d/l this patch would have obtained a CT ROM illegally...

I'm in the 0.1% lol. I assumed a long time ago that my SNES would fail...the ironic part is, its still chugging along while nearly every system since then has failed at some time or other. They don't build things like they used to, I guess. Though on second thought, the NES requires occasional cartridge CPR.

Belthasar

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #128 on: May 18, 2009, 11:15:31 pm »
I also am in the .01%. I literally grew up playing CT since before I could read. I own it on both the snes and ps1. If I owned a DS I would own it on that to. Yeah the cartridges may fail but the machine works still 0_o.

IAmSerge

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #129 on: May 18, 2009, 11:21:11 pm »
I have CTDS, that make it illegal?

KebreI

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #130 on: May 18, 2009, 11:24:15 pm »
I also am in the .01%. I literally grew up playing CT since before I could read. I own it on both the snes and ps1. If I owned a DS I would own it on that to. Yeah the cartridges may fail but the machine works still 0_o.
I can't believe that Belthasar wasn't already taken.

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #131 on: May 18, 2009, 11:26:37 pm »
I have CTDS, that make it illegal?

If you talk of the Rom, then yes it is unless you have the original copy.

I guess it's that way considering that there is no harm being done if you already payed for it once.

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #132 on: May 18, 2009, 11:32:12 pm »
Look, I paid big bucks for Chrono Trigger back in the days of the SNES.  And I bought a Nintendo DS just for Chrono Trigger DS (which was a huge letdown, in all honesty).  So by my logic, I have all the reason in the world to have a ROM of Chrono Trigger.  Legally, morally, etc.

LONG LIVE THE CHRONO TRIGGER!

Mr Bekkler

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #133 on: May 18, 2009, 11:46:01 pm »
Look, I paid big bucks for Chrono Trigger back in the days of the SNES.  And I bought a Nintendo DS just for Chrono Trigger DS (which was a huge letdown, in all honesty).  So by my logic, I have all the reason in the world to have a ROM of Chrono Trigger.  Legally, morally, etc.

LONG LIVE THE CHRONO TRIGGER!
What he said.

Mikisho

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Re: Straight Talk Express with the Compendium...Next Stop: Truth
« Reply #134 on: May 18, 2009, 11:47:30 pm »
I'm not gonna lie, I'm part of the 99.9%.  It kind pof makes me feel like a bad person reading this forum  :shock:.  I feel so ashamed  :(