Author Topic: Doomsday Scenario: Lavos  (Read 23587 times)

ZeaLitY

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Doomsday Scenario: Lavos
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2005, 08:21:09 pm »
Anyone got a screen of the map readout during the Day of Lavos? I want to determine if Lavos was gunning for cities in particular.

Hadriel

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Doomsday Scenario: Lavos
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2005, 10:27:53 pm »
I will in about three minutes.

Edit: Oh, wait, the map readout.  Damn.  Don't have a savegame near there, unfortunately, but I'll find one.

Edit 2:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/azrael19/image7.bmp

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/azrael19/image8.bmp

Daniel Krispin

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Doomsday Scenario: Lavos
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2005, 01:46:14 am »
Quote from: Hadriel
Is there even a chemical formula or any scientific description for adamantium besides *snikt*?  I've heard of an incredibly hard material having been accidentally synthesized during research on bone transplants -- so hard, it actually scratched the diamond.  I'll go look that up.

As I said, it is a legendary material. I'll look it up again - I love the grand Oxford dictionary... nothing quite beats having 600,000 words at ones fingertips. Anyway... directly quoting that venerable dictionary:
From Old French, adamaunt, from Latin, Adamant-em, which in turn was from the greek adamas/adamanta, which is the adjective for invincible (from a=not, manaw=I tame) Afterwards applied to a name of the hardest metal, probably steel; also applied by Theophrastus to the hardest crystalline gem then known, the emery-stone of Naxos, 'an amorphous form of corundum.' in L. poetically for the hardest iron or steel, or anything very hard and indestructible; also, with Pliny, the name of a transparent crystalline gem of the hexahedral system, apparently corundum or white sapphire, but extended and at length transferred to the still harder diamond after this became known in the West. The early med. L. writers apparently explaining the word from adama-re 'to take a liking to, have an attraction for,' took the lapidem adamantem for the loadstone or magnet (an ore of iron, and thus also associated wit hteh ancient metallic sense); and with this confusion the word passed into the modern languages. In OE it occurs as adamans, from the ned. L.; and in the 13th c. as adamantines stan, a transl. of lapis adamantinus, with the adj. mistaken for a sb. in apposition to lapis, and so englished as stone of adamantin. In the current form itis a 14th c. adoption of the literary Fr. adamaunt, ademaunt....
Alright, I'll skip over the rest of the etymology. The actual defenition:
Name of an alleged rock or mineral, as to which vague, contradictory, and fabulous notions long prevailed. The properties ascribed to it show a confusion of ideas between the diamond (or other hard gems) and the loadstone or magnet, though by writers affecting better infirmation, it was distinguished from one or other, or from both. The confusion with loadstone ceased in the 17th c., and the word was then used by scientific writers as a synonym of diamond. In the modern use it is only a poetical or rhetorical name for the embodiment of surpassing hardness; that which is impregnable to any application of force.
It then goes on to list the various occurances in English literature, based upon how it is used, and for what material.
1. Without identification with any other substance
c 885 K. Ælfred Greg. Past. (1871) 270 Se hearda stan, se (?)e adamans hatte, done mon mid nane isene ceorfan ne mæg.

Ummm... I think that's a little too old. Can anyone read that? I sure can't. But I suppose that means the usage is old. Well, by being identified with the diamond:
1393 Gower Conf. III. I12 The seconde [stone in the crown] is an adamant.
I guess that exemplifies it well enough. If Oxford says it is so in English, it is so. That answer any questions about adamant?
Personally, I vary the use. I use it... let me check... 8 times in Twilight of Fate, and 5 times in my other writing, for anyone that cares. I like the word, but am wary of over using it. Like 'surpassing' or 'sigaldry'... wonderful words, but not to be used very often if they are to retain their interest. Usually, it's just in the form 'adamant about such and such', though in ToF I once refer something as a gem of adamant, and of Janus that his sinews were as unyielding adamant, which a reference more to a metal. I'm not sure how anyone else uses it, for the most part; I'm all across the board. Tolkien, of the famed Silmarils, says: 'Like the crystal of diamonds it appeared, and yet was more strong than adamant, so that no violence could mar it or break it within the Kingdom of Arda.' I think he uses it also in reference to mithril, but I cannot be certain.


Now, as far as Lavos goes, the infamous porcupine isn't even close. But the nature of his power does not require him to: it fully destroys everything, just in an inaccurate manner. But who ever demanded subtlety of that demon?

Lazarus Plus

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Doomsday Scenario: Lavos
« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2005, 10:50:30 pm »
It surprises me that he was so inefficent that he would not try to completely wipe out the dominate lifeform (humans), but it could be argued that he no longer considers them a threat with their technology base broken.

After all, whatever weapons they did have to defend themselves with probably got destroyed and they sure weren't building new ones come 2300 AD.

GrayLensman

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« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2005, 03:10:47 am »
Lavos never applies more force than is necessary.  The destruction of Zeal in 12,000 BC was very precise and the Day of Lavos effectively eliminated all danger to Lavos and its offspring.

I personally believe that Lavos had the ability to completely blow up the planet if it wanted or needed to.  I think Zeality actually postulated this as a mechanism for the Lavos Spawns' space travel.

Eggith Cyrene

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Doomsday Scenario: Lavos
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2005, 02:30:06 am »
on the day of larvos was there even time to notice to look out the window and see that your were f*cked? He launched his attack fairly quickly.


Assuming there was more time.... Hmmmmmm I would assume it would be fired upon asap Conventional weapons i doubt would pierce the shell. a nuke in its mouth ? might make it recede into its shell. IT would make for a good movie (id4 2 anyone?) but yeah i doubt see anything even nukes penetrating the hull/skin/shell of lavos. Perhaps if said nuke was launched from a metal gear type platform (reaching i know) with its rail gun capabilities it might have enough velocity to breach the shell as the epoch did. But we dont know how fast the epoch is capable of traveling. I would assume faster than a rail gun cannon since it flys threw time. but it could go either way. I dont see lavos survivng without its shell i dont care how much dna he has in the inner core. HE was partly flesh and he (it actulary) would be fucked up. Just because Godzilla could do it dosent mean everyone is bullet resistant.

Hadriel

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Doomsday Scenario: Lavos
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2005, 02:08:55 pm »
We discussed the possibility of railguns earlier.  To have any chance of piercing the Lavos shell, a volley of railgun bullets would have to be traveling at almost the speed of light -- we don't have the technology to accelerate a bullet that fast yet.  In fact, the only thing we can accelerate that fast is an electron.

Daniel Krispin

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Doomsday Scenario: Lavos
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2005, 03:48:00 pm »
Quote from: Eggith Cyrene
on the day of larvos was there even time to notice to look out the window and see that your were f*cked? He launched his attack fairly quickly.


Assuming there was more time.... Hmmmmmm I would assume it would be fired upon asap Conventional weapons i doubt would pierce the shell. a nuke in its mouth ? might make it recede into its shell. IT would make for a good movie (id4 2 anyone?) but yeah i doubt see anything even nukes penetrating the hull/skin/shell of lavos. Perhaps if said nuke was launched from a metal gear type platform (reaching i know) with its rail gun capabilities it might have enough velocity to breach the shell as the epoch did. But we dont know how fast the epoch is capable of traveling. I would assume faster than a rail gun cannon since it flys threw time. but it could go either way. I dont see lavos survivng without its shell i dont care how much dna he has in the inner core. HE was partly flesh and he (it actulary) would be fucked up. Just because Godzilla could do it dosent mean everyone is bullet resistant.


Rail gun? Why should that help? Rail guns don't fire that swiftly. Only in the range of 10,000km/h max, I think (or something in that range.) I think even ICBMs fly faster than rail guns fire.

The reason, I should think, that the Epoch was able to circumvent the shell was not by any means of speed, velocity dependent kinetic energy, or anything of that sort. Rather, whatever mechanism it uses to traverse time likely creates a warp in space time about it. This could likely serve as an effective shield and weapon against the shell, using the temporal vorticies or whatever else would exists surrounding the Epoch to burrow through.

SilentMartyr

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Doomsday Scenario: Lavos
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2005, 04:00:56 pm »
If there is a warp field it would be invisible to the naked eye, both in the game and cut scenes the Epoch would dissapear with no trace of exit. Just poof, gone.

Hadriel

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« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2005, 06:16:14 pm »
Well, theoretically, in order to travel back in time one can exceed the speed of light in order to have time flow backwards.  Then again, I'd love to know how precisely a Gate works.  If Belthasar figured out a way to make nonreal mass workable, he's a genius indeed.  Then again, it is likely that space was distorted somehow.  The Epoch slamming into Lavos at full speed would probably deliver enough raw energy to get through, when you take together both its KE and possible self-destruct reactants.

Daniel Krispin

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Doomsday Scenario: Lavos
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2005, 06:17:44 pm »
Quote from: CTcronoboy
If there is a warp field it would be invisible to the naked eye, both in the game and cut scenes the Epoch would dissapear with no trace of exit. Just poof, gone.


How so? We see light bend around planets and stars, do we not? Gravity is there causing a warp field, large space-time distortions, and the effects are visible. A warp field affects space and time and, in essence then, would twist light about that point, causing a confusing amalgam of images and light. But it would most certainly be visible.

Thus there would indeed be the trace of an exit and, moreover, it is not necessarially the case that the act of time travelling occurs at the beginning of the acceleration. It may be and, in fact, seems to be very much like, the ships jumping to hyperspace in Star Wars, where they go near the speed of light, then time-travel. But my point was slightly different. I meant that, whatever occurs during time travel, and however much the people themselves within the ship are protected, I can only imagine the distortions and tearing of time that are going on in the immediate vicinity about the Epoch, displacing things in wrong temporal locations etc. After all, an object travelling at a certain velocity has kinetic energy, and twists the air in turbulent and laminar flow about it. A heated object will diffuse its temperature through a temperature gradiant. Likely an object in a state of temporal flux causes a similar counter-effect to its immediate surroundings, though the exact effects I am obviously unsure on. Things are not in an isolated environment. All I am saying is that whatever they are, they would likely be quite detrimental to any sort of armour, unless it is made to defend against the effects of temporal distortion.

Hadriel

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« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2005, 01:39:30 am »
Ships don't time travel in Star Wars.  They simply enter another dimension -- a universe out of phase with ours, where everything is transmuted into a different form of matter with nonreal mass by altering its phase angle (which I don't know anything about -- ask Leebot), enabling it to exceed the speed of light.  The only instance of time travel in Star Wars is in a Tales comic called The Secret of Tet Ami featuring Mace Windu.  I haven't read it in its entirety, though.

Mass/energy conservation is one of the problems that plagues time travel technology.  Olber's Paradox proves a finite universe, which in turn proves conservation of energy.  However, the Tesseract seems to have an endless capacity for discarded timelines, which seemingly violates conservation of energy.  Even assuming the timelines merely existed as some form of ethereal data, there's still a violation going on, unless some element of true magic can feasibly resolve this.  Such an element would doubtlessly involve the Entity and any universal consciousness that may be present.

Kassad

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Doomsday Scenario: Lavos
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2005, 11:54:49 am »
Quote from: Hadriel
As for the speed of Lavos' attack, the bad ending scene of the Earth being destroyed is likely time-lapse "photography" occurring over a period of several hours, or possibly even days.


That's not possible. The people in the 'control room' say all the cities were hit almost instantly, so Lavos' attack was pretty quick. And they were taken by surprise, so Lavos must have gotten out of his hole very quickly.

So, if such a thing happened in our world... I think Lavos would take pretty much everyone by surprise and kill most of mankind with his 'rain of destruction' attack. So the UN probably wouldn't do anything to fight him, as it would have been destroyed in the initial attack. There wouldn't be any kind of conventional fighting either, for the same reason. The only form of retaliation would be the USA and Russia sending what nuclear weapons they had left to take out Lavos.

Eggith Cyrene

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« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2005, 05:47:09 pm »
but we dont know if such a nuclear attack would be effective. Chances are it wouldent penetrate the shell. And the nukes would cause even more collateral damage

Daniel Krispin

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Doomsday Scenario: Lavos
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2005, 06:26:01 pm »
Quote from: Hadriel
Ships don't time travel in Star Wars.  They simply enter another dimension -- a universe out of phase with ours, where everything is transmuted into a different form of matter with nonreal mass by altering its phase angle (which I don't know anything about -- ask Leebot), enabling it to exceed the speed of light.  The only instance of time travel in Star Wars is in a Tales comic called The Secret of Tet Ami featuring Mace Windu.  I haven't read it in its entirety, though.


Go easy on me! It was a typo, nothing more. Of course I know that they don't time travel! I meant cross dimensions.