Author Topic: Shaving  (Read 2425 times)

Thought

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Re: Shaving
« Reply #45 on: October 20, 2008, 05:33:41 pm »
Their reasons for "why it doesn't make sense" are pretty lame and have no weight.

Actually, they are fairly well aimed. I suspect you didn't entirely understand what their reasons were actually addressing. To note, the original email made two primary claims. The first is that the very act of preventing perspiration causes cancer. All your points are in relation to that claim. The second claim is that there is a chemical specifically in antiperspirants that causes cancer.

All the reasons that the site presents as to why the original claims in the email are false is related to that first claim; that the act of preventing perspiration is causing cancer. Admittedly, if those reasons were not addressing that claim, they would be "pretty lame and have no weight." But as they were, they must be considered in that light.

1) The "reason" that the site provided was in reaction to the email's claim that antiperspirant prevents toxins from being sweated out. Even if we assume that cancer-causing toxins can be sweated out of the body, that would not lead to an increase in breast cancer because any toxins that would be sweated out would still get sweated out, just in different areas. Your claim that not all toxins are sweated out is a red herring; the issue is if ANY toxins can be sweated out, not if ALL toxins can be sweated out.

2) The "reason" that the site provided was in reaction to the email's claim that antiperspirants cause cancer because the unrelated toxins that antiperspirant prevents from being sweated out get deposited in the breast region. If there is a general increase of toxicity in a body, then every area that interacts with that toxin would be at an increased risk. The email essentially states that these toxins pool in lymph nodes, which means that one should have an increased chance of Lymphoma throughout the body, not just around the breasts. The email's claim requires a poor conception of how the lymphoid system works.

3) The "reason" that the site provided was in reaction to the email's claim that antiperspirants cause toxins to be deposited in lymph nodes near the breasts which then cause breast cancer specifically. The toxins would be flowing away from the breasts, not towards them, so the toxins would be more likely to affect some other area further down the line, not upstream of where they are introduced. It is like claiming that dumping nuclear waste in a river mid-stream will poison the source of that river but not the termination of that river. In order for the toxins to affect the breasts, the lymphoid system would need to be operating in reverse.

4) The "reason" that the site provided was in reaction to the email's claim that breast cancer occurs in a particular section of the breasts that have a high density of lymph nodes, which relates to the above three points. The reaction is that no, breast cancer does not occur only in those areas that the email had claimed. This is significant because if the cancer causing toxins were related to the lymphoid system, areas without access to that system should not suffer similarly.

So the webpage basically claimed that antiperspirant doesn't do what the email claims it does, that any increase of toxins should effect the whole and not just the part, that the lymphoid system (the supposed career of these toxins) does not flow in a manner that would transport the toxins to the supposed site of mutation, and that sites unrelated to these deposits of toxins suffer similar effects.

To be fair, the site only debunked the email's claims regarding the mechanical effects of antiperspirants. If you will note, it didn't address the issue of if the chemicals in antiperspirant cause cancer themselves. But that is then addressed in the statement that the NIH (the biomedical field's deity, essentially) is unaware of any conclusive evidence linking those chemicals to breast cancer.

A simple PubMed search should carry the day, in this case:
Abstract from the Bulletin du Cancer (french medical journal) stating there is no relation
Abstract from the Eastern Mediterranean Health journal stating there is no relation.

The best you have is abstracts like this one which state that chemicals in antiperspirants have the capability of causing cancer in breast tissue, but it specifically notes that research actually needs to be done on if application to the skin could cause breast cancer. That is why the website claimed the NIH is aware of no conclusive evidence linking the two. The best you get is that the chemicals could cause cancer but there has no indication that the chemicals can travel from where they are applied to the breasts. Indeed, the research indicates that the chemicals cannot do so.

The website, and by proxy Radical Dreamer, is rejecting something because there is no evidence to support the claim and indications that the claim are false. Citations are nice, but citations only make research easier. Research should still be done by the individual.

But here is the link to PubMed and a link to PubMedCentral (the former is much older and has abstracts from around the world, the other is newer, has full articles, but doesn't have too much yet). Go knock yourself out.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/

placidchap

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Re: Shaving
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2008, 08:18:14 am »
I'll have to admit that I did not know of the email, as I read of this somewhere else.  I hate those things just as much as anyone else with a half pint of intellegence.  But I also can't stand "absolute" yes/no answers, with so many variables in the world.  Most scientific research concludes based on observations of "associations".  A direct link between anything is hard to come by.  ....but thanks for the links, Thought.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 08:31:24 am by placidchap »

Dark Serge

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Re: Shaving
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2008, 04:18:58 pm »
Shaving huh? Real men have beards :D (Strokes his beard) :D

teaflower

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Re: Shaving
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2008, 04:28:51 pm »
Beards are freaky. I can handle a little bit of facial hair, but I don't think a beard would be good for me. May I suggest to any guy with a beard that if you just can't seem to get a girl, shave the beard.

x_XTacTX_x

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Re: Shaving
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2008, 04:41:55 pm »
I wish I could grow a beard. Being fifteen, the best I can get is a shotty neckpatch and a mexican upper lip.

nightmare975

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Re: Shaving
« Reply #50 on: October 22, 2008, 06:23:49 pm »
I feel naked without my mustache and goatee. And apparently everyone hates it when I shave it off.

I've had this mustache since I was in middle school. >.>

Shaved it three times.

dan_death

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Re: Shaving
« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2008, 07:08:50 pm »
Beards are freaky. I can handle a little bit of facial hair, but I don't think a beard would be good for me. May I suggest to any guy with a beard that if you just can't seem to get a girl, shave the beard.

ah ha!

....i think i'll go shave now xD although my beards not a big, i keep it trimmed, and i shave my mustache. but there was a time that i didn't trim my beard o.O
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 07:10:38 pm by dan_death »

KebreI

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Re: Shaving
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2008, 08:36:09 pm »
People know me because my beard, I get complements on it all the time from women. Just be sure if you going to have beard: Keep it trimmed and cleaned up.

dan_death

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Re: Shaving
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2008, 11:56:54 pm »
People know me because my beard, I get complements on it all the time from women. Just be sure if you going to have beard: Keep it trimmed and cleaned up.

yep yep....although i recently just started doing that xD i started to grow a beard since 9th grade, got one in a few months or so, and didn't really shave for a long long time.

Lakonthegreat

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Re: Shaving
« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2008, 12:20:48 am »
I have a beard, but it's nice and trimmed to just be one solid line from sideburn to sideburn. I'm 21, and I still can't grow a decent mustache. I always shave it off, but leave like the handlebars to it in points on the side. It looks cool.

Daniel Krispin

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Re: Shaving
« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2008, 04:29:28 am »
Beards are freaky. I can handle a little bit of facial hair, but I don't think a beard would be good for me. May I suggest to any guy with a beard that if you just can't seem to get a girl, shave the beard.

Actually, appeasement to looks in such a matter hardly ever works. I would admonish quite the opposite, teaflower. You may not yourself prefer beards, but there are women who do. There are many men with beards who have girlfriends, so I do not think it is much of a problem, unless you have something such as a Tirpitz beard, or perhaps a Hitler-like mustache. But those are extremes. At any rate, I find it a tad irritating for it to be suggested that for a man to get a woman he must shave a beard. Personally, I've never found anything so simple to be a deciding factor in relations between the sexes. I will add that I was once told that cutting my hair would have a similar effect... that is, women do not like long hair, etc. Well, honestly, it doesn't make a whit of difference, as there will be women that like a man with his long hair, even as there are those that will not with the short. Basically, as long as it's something that suits you, don't care an iota for if it's attractive to the opposite sex. You should never be basing your looks on that.

I must also that as beard are a natural growth for men. What is freaky is purely a social construct of current fashion. Of course, one doesn't want to go entirely crossways (I mean, we're in society for a reason... don't want to purposefully be misfits), but nevertheless, it's something that comes and goes. Heavens, at one time having one's beard shaved was a symbol of disgrace.

Anyway, for myself, I've never attempted growing a full beard, though I rarely shave entirely with a razor. Usually I just trim down so it's just roughly scraggly, as in my picture. I could grow a beard if I wished, but it's not my preference at the moment.

Jutty

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Re: Shaving
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2008, 04:46:48 am »
I'm a fan of the clean shave if not I am constantly stroking my facial hair which tends to annoy other people lol. I'm so easily amused.

Agent 12

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Re: Shaving
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2008, 05:24:51 am »
Beards are freaky. I can handle a little bit of facial hair, but I don't think a beard would be good for me. May I suggest to any guy with a beard that if you just can't seem to get a girl, shave the beard.

Actually, appeasement to looks in such a matter hardly ever works. I would admonish quite the opposite, teaflower. You may not yourself prefer beards, but there are women who do. There are many men with beards who have girlfriends, so I do not think it is much of a problem, unless you have something such as a Tirpitz beard, or perhaps a Hitler-like mustache. But those are extremes. At any rate, I find it a tad irritating for it to be suggested that for a man to get a woman he must shave a beard. Personally, I've never found anything so simple to be a deciding factor in relations between the sexes. I will add that I was once told that cutting my hair would have a similar effect... that is, women do not like long hair, etc. Well, honestly, it doesn't make a whit of difference, as there will be women that like a man with his long hair, even as there are those that will not with the short. Basically, as long as it's something that suits you, don't care an iota for if it's attractive to the opposite sex. You should never be basing your looks on that.

I must also that as beard are a natural growth for men. What is freaky is purely a social construct of current fashion. Of course, one doesn't want to go entirely crossways (I mean, we're in society for a reason... don't want to purposefully be misfits), but nevertheless, it's something that comes and goes. Heavens, at one time having one's beard shaved was a symbol of disgrace.

Anyway, for myself, I've never attempted growing a full beard, though I rarely shave entirely with a razor. Usually I just trim down so it's just roughly scraggly, as in my picture. I could grow a beard if I wished, but it's not my preference at the moment.

Couldn't agree with this post more.  I'm living proof that looks don't really matter in a relation ship (except for extremes).  Thankfully I have a pretty awesome sense of humor (and i'm humble to boot) which I have pleasantly learned throughout my lifetime to be instrumental to getting a relationship.


--JP

EDIT:  Also (thankfully) society seems to be accepting nerds more :)

Thought

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Re: Shaving
« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2008, 10:30:26 am »
Beards are freaky. I can handle a little bit of facial hair, but I don't think a beard would be good for me. May I suggest to any guy with a beard that if you just can't seem to get a girl, shave the beard.

It depends more on the hygiene than the beard. That is, if a guy doesn't take good care of what beard he has, there will be far fewer women who will be interested in him. Same with hair; long hair can look quite good, but if the guy doesn't take care of it in the desired manner, it won’t be as good.

Appearing presentable is often more important than what one presents, as it were. At least for first impressions.

You may not yourself prefer beards, but there are women who do.

Actually, I know women who even demand that their men have beards. One friend's husband shaved his goatee off and she wouldn't even kiss him until it grew back (she claimed it made her feel like a pedophile if she did).

Personally, I tried shaving my goatee off this summer... bleh. Then I tried to grow a full beard. Blarg. As far as I am concerned, Evil-Twin Facial Hair is the only way to go.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 10:33:20 am by Thought »

placidchap

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Re: Shaving
« Reply #59 on: October 23, 2008, 05:11:32 pm »
my wife demands my goatee..and now my trimmed-to-stubble mustache as well.  i demand my chin strap.  so if i understand the evil twin facial hair as a goatee attached with mustache...i have evil twin + chin strap + soul patch + sideburns = awesome.