Question: Lavos Complications

[Old School Chrono Gamer]

The answer will most probably hit most of you, so when it does, clue me in.  A huge part of the plot is when Serge comes in contact with Chronopolis.  But Chronopolis exists in a future where the earth wasn't blown to bits by Lavos.  How can that world exist if the time devourer destroys Chrono and company and anihilates the planet?  No Chronopolis, no Time Devourer battle, right?

Also, if Lavos was sent to (or went to) the darkness beyond time when he was fused with Schala, how is it that the black omen is still conected to him?  After all, the mammon machine had to be moved to the bottom of the ocean to feed on more of Lavos' power, so there's no chance it's going to link to him through dimentions.

[Leebot]

First part: Where do you get the idea that the Time Devourer destroyed anything? The future still existed.

The second part is a valid point. I believe that the Time Devourer split off; it was a new entity. The original Lavos was left behind.

[ZeaLitY]

Also, if Lavos was sent to (or went to) the darkness beyond time when he was fused with Schala, how is it that the black omen is still conected to him?  After all, the mammon machine had to be moved to the bottom of the ocean to feed on more of Lavos' power, so there's no chance it's going to link to him through dimentions.

Schala was gated to the Darkness Beyond Time after the Ocean Palace incident, but Lavos within the Pocket Dimension didn't get there until he was absolutely destroyed in his final form and the game ended.

[Old School Chrono Gamer]

But didn't schala get drawn into the mamon machine?  And if not, why would she be sent to the darkness beyond time?  That would make 5 people going through a time gate.  Eaarlier in the game, Gasper ssadi that when more than three people enter a time gate, they end up at the point of least resistance (the end of time).  And there were only 4 people (Chrono, Marle, Lucca, and Robo) before.  How would Schala, let alone Janus, Belthazar(sp), and Melchoir(sp) not go to the end of time with Gasper?

[ZeaLitY]

They all went through different temporal distortions, not a single Gate. Chrono Cross reveals the Mammon Machine did tempoararily go to the Darkness Beyond Time with Schala.

[Lord J Esq]

What a creepy machine to get stuck with in the worst place you can imagine...

It is interesting, isn't it, that Schala would be a villain for allowing her morals to weaken her resolve in cases such as her choosing to continue drawing the Mammon Machine rather than let Crono & Co. be killed, which led her to commit actions with horrible consequences such as the destruction of her entire kingdom, except that, had she refused to draw the machine, Crono would have been killed and thus Lavos would have awoken without anyone to stop it, which would mean Schala did good in the end. But if it had been anyone else other than Crono, she could have refused to draw the machine at the expense of those other adventuerers' lives, thus sparing her kingdom if not necessarily herself, while Crono & Co., enjoying immunity from space-time editing, could have gone on to defeat Lavos even though their timelines might have become radically different.

[V_Translanka]

But didn't schala get drawn into the mamon machine? And if not, why would she be sent to the darkness beyond time? That would make 5 people going through a time gate. Eaarlier in the game, Gasper ssadi that when more than three people enter a time gate, they end up at the point of least resistance (the end of time). And there were only 4 people (Chrono, Marle, Lucca, and Robo) before. How would Schala, let alone Janus, Belthazar(sp), and Melchoir(sp) not go to the end of time with Gasper?

And regardless, as was seen after Magus summoned it, Lavos's gates can be the exception to the rule. Four went in, three came out in the Prehistoric Era and one, Magus, went to Zeal.

[SilentMartyr]

But didn't schala get drawn into the mamon machine? And if not, why would she be sent to the darkness beyond time? That would make 5 people going through a time gate. Eaarlier in the game, Gasper ssadi that when more than three people enter a time gate, they end up at the point of least resistance (the end of time). And there were only 4 people (Chrono, Marle, Lucca, and Robo) before. How would Schala, let alone Janus, Belthazar(sp), and Melchoir(sp) not go to the end of time with Gasper?

And regardless, as was seen after Magus summoned it, Lavos's gates can be the exception to the rule. Four went in, three came out in the Prehistoric Era and one, Magus, went to Zeal.

You are sure that gate was made by Lavos? I always thought the entity made that gate, so that none of them would have been killed by Lavos. It really wouldn't make any sense that Lavos would want to preserve thier lives.

[V_Translanka]

Well, I don't see that they would have been killed by Lavos. Is he ever really summoned at all? There's nothing to support that. The castle is the same later as it was before. And, like seen in the Ocean Palace flashback, Lavos does not need to kill everyone. He sent the Gurus and Janus through seperate gates then as well. It could have been, but Magus states himself later that he was surprised that Lavos's (I'm fairly sure he says that, he's probably more vague and doesn't mention Lavos...) gate sent him back to Zeal era. The way I see it is that Lavos didn't want to come up, wreck havoc and kill them, so he simply created a giganto gate and sent 'em packin.

[razor's edge]

I don't see why Lavos would decide not to kill everyone involved. Instead of killing those messing with him, he sends the Gurus and Janus to the future where they can try again to go after him? That's just bad math. Same with Magus, Crono & Co in Magus's Lair--Magus has the power to summon Lavos (if not interrupted by meddling time travellers). Why would Lavos send them to the past when he could just kill them? Why didn't Lavos just throw the party through random portals at the Ocean Palace instead of killing Crono? The random gates that sucked in the Gurus and Janus were probably just a side effect of the great increase in energy in the Mammon Machine when activated closer to Lavos. The giant gate in Magus's Castle was the same situation. The energy of Lavos waking up, along with Magus messing up the summoning spell, due to Crono & Co, causing the giant gate to appear, throwing the party to the Prehistoric Era and Magus to the Dark Ages.

[SilentMartyr]

Well, I don't see that they would have been killed by Lavos. Is he ever really summoned at all? There's nothing to support that. The castle is the same later as it was before. And, like seen in the Ocean Palace flashback, Lavos does not need to kill everyone. He sent the Gurus and Janus through seperate gates then as well. It could have been, but Magus states himself later that he was surprised that Lavos's (I'm fairly sure he says that, he's probably more vague and doesn't mention Lavos...) gate sent him back to Zeal era. The way I see it is that Lavos didn't want to come up, wreck havoc and kill them, so he simply created a giganto gate and sent 'em packin.

Im pretty sure that you hear Lavos's scream once the gate engulfs the screen. As for the guru's that could have just as easily been the entity saving them so they could fullfill thier duties in aiding the heroes of time. I couldn't imagine why Lavos would think that they were even a threat, so sending them away from the time period doesn't make much sense to me there

[razor's edge]

Well, let's look at who got gated elsewhere in the Ocean Palace: the 3 Gurus, Janus, and Schala. Besides Queen Zeal and Dalton, those are all of the innates of Zeal. If Lavos wanted to be overly careful, fearing that a combined attack on him from all of them could possibly seriously hurt him, if not kill him, then gating them away would be a logical course of action. Then, he destroys Zeal, and those that relied on the Mammon Machine for their power no longer have ability to use magic without it being unlocked. Since the Gurus were the ones most knowledgeable about magic, there was no one left who could possibly discover how to re-unlock magic.

However, it's possible that the gates were just random side effects of Lavos's sudden prescence.

[Green Dream]

Robo: After 400 years of experience, I have come to think that Lavos may not be responsible for the Gates.

Marle: What do you mean?

Robo: I have come to think that someone, or something wanted us to see all  this.  The different events over time, that we have witnessed.  It is almost as if some entity wanted to relive its past.

Perhaps this is just some random Robo speculation, however I firmly believe that this is just an authors way of telling us we don't need to suspect that Lavos has the power to create gates.  In fact it could give us every reason to believe that the entity created every last gate.  I'm sure the entity would create portals in ocean palace just to preserve people that would be important to its own survival.  Even better, it put them all in time periods that would be accessable to Crono and Co.  Wasn't it discussed in an earlier thread that the entity preserved people the second time through when Crono died.

Another point to make would be the portal in Magus's Castle.  The entity might want to get involved there to stop Magus from finishing the summon, as well as send Chrono and Co. to a place where they could understand more about the situation the entity was going through.  The Lavos scream that was heard when the portal was created could just be a growl from waking up.  Then, since Magus wasn't continuing to summon, Lavos just goes back to sleep.

[SilentMartyr]

Well, let's look at who got gated elsewhere in the Ocean Palace: the 3 Gurus, Janus, and Schala. Besides Queen Zeal and Dalton, those are all of the innates of Zeal. If Lavos wanted to be overly careful, fearing that a combined attack on him from all of them could possibly seriously hurt him, if not kill him, then gating them away would be a logical course of action. Then, he destroys Zeal, and those that relied on the Mammon Machine for their power no longer have ability to use magic without it being unlocked. Since the Gurus were the ones most knowledgeable about magic, there was no one left who could possibly discover how to re-unlock magic.

However, it's possible that the gates were just random side effects of Lavos's sudden prescence.

I don't remember Schala getting the gate treatment.

[razor's edge]

Well, let's look at who got gated elsewhere in the Ocean Palace: the 3 Gurus, Janus, and Schala. Besides Queen Zeal and Dalton, those are all of the innates of Zeal. If Lavos wanted to be overly careful, fearing that a combined attack on him from all of them could possibly seriously hurt him, if not kill him, then gating them away would be a logical course of action. Then, he destroys Zeal, and those that relied on the Mammon Machine for their power no longer have ability to use magic without it being unlocked. Since the Gurus were the ones most knowledgeable about magic, there was no one left who could possibly discover how to re-unlock magic.

However, it's possible that the gates were just random side effects of Lavos's sudden prescence.

I don't remember Schala getting the gate treatment.

Then how do you suppose she got to the DBT? Walked? And besides, I never said she got gated at the same time as the others did, I should have clarified that, but I don't see any other way for her to get there.