Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes Plot Development

[teh Schala]

I definitely think this feels like a Chrono story.  As far as the religious overtones, I never got the idea from Cross that they were "destroying destiny."  Destroying a manipulator, perhaps, but not destiny.  (By the way, I am a Christian as well.)  And from Trigger, I never got the feeling that Lavos had controlled the evolution of the humans.  Humans had already (depending on your personal belief) been created/evolved/whatever.  They were already there, though the Reptites disdainfully referred to them as "apes" in a derogatory fashion.  Their minds grew through collective experience (just as we now understand things that even just 100 years ago were mysteries), and their brains "evolved" in intelligence that way.  So I never bought Lucca's idea that they had evolved because of Lavos.  I just dismissed it as, "She's still a human who can be wrong at times, and she's probably an evolutionist to boot."

Dismissing those in my mind, I then ended up feeling that the Entity was really more God than the essence of the planet.  (I'm not about to get into a religous debate, so don't start with me there.)  In other words, in the end, I felt that it promoted humans' dependence on God in that (since it seems the Gates were made by the Entity and not Lavos) without Him, there can't be any way to win out and survive.

So all in all, I didn't really have any objections to the idea of "destroying destiny by changing time" or whatever because that's not really what came across in my perception.

[Hadriel]

It says explicitly at the end of Trigger that Lavos is responsible for the evolution of life on this planet.  Humans in 65MBC were in a very primitive, apelike stage, much like in reality except with broken English added in.  Lucca isn't the only one that has the idea, either; I barely ever use her in my final party.  Chrono Cross repeats this same adage, and calls mankind "children of Lavos."  The Chrono series does exalt free will and choice above everything else; essentially, the Entity is there to lend a sense of "God helps those who help themselves."

[Shadow_Dragon]

I did get the feeling that Lavos helped human evolution, but not directly; it wasn't like all the humans picked up mini frozen flames and suddenly learned magic and grew smarter, but Lavos' presence killed off the reptites, allowing the humans to live... Like I don't think Lavos actually possessed or tainted Queen Zeal, but the ability to have so much power did... Lavos is needed to make the humans survive, but in moderation. Now that I think about, something like the Ocean Palace Disasater probably happened in 1999, which would make a great topic for CE if the plot weren't already planned out..

[Hadriel]

Titanic was released in 1999.  I think that qualifies.  :p

[teh Schala]

Hey Hadriel, you asked how we see it, and I answered.  The religious overtones played a role in how I saw Chrono Trigger, and since I think evolution is a pile of baloney, that's how I interpreted what was shown.

Not to mention that I hardly even remember anything from Cross because I was lost through the whole danged thing.

[Shadow_Dragon]

Titanic was released in 1999.  I think that qualifies.  :p

I saw that and was like "WTF" until I looked at my post
Titanic made me cry... but I was only 9 then, I guess

[Oswego del Fuego]

Hadirel:  I'm going to refrain from commenting too much on the story itself.  I am extremely interested in this project, and I like to give input on particular points, and I am flattered if my opinions are at all considered.  However, this really isn't my project, so I don't think I'm in a position to comment on it in a general sense.  I'll leave that to those more intimately involved.

Whoever:  I worked a bit more on a potential set up for the single techs of the characters.  Feel free to take or leave what you see.  (Of course, if you decide not to use any of my suggestions whatsoever, I certainly will NOT be offended.)  I've included descriptions of the new techs, at least three of which were suggested by others.  Yeah, and I'm a little disappointed that Crono's tech list came out exactly the same as it was in Trigger... but I just couldn't think of a good way to change it.  He really seems to "need" all of his techs.

Oh, and one thing!  Some techs were suggested which may not be possible.  I have only included techs that we KNOW would indeed be possible, assuming that single tech editing becomes doable.  (For example, it's not clear that playable characters could ever inflict Blind or Poison, because no such ability is available to the player in Trigger, but we already know that Slow and Stop abilities are possible, because Trigger already has weapons that inflict these statues.)


Crono:
 Cyclone
*Lightning
 Slash
 Twister
*Lightning 2
*Life
 Sonic Sword
*Luminaire

Twister
(retooled Spincut)

Sonic Sword
(retooled Confuse)



Marle:
 Aura
*Ice
 Charm
*Haste
*Ice 2
*Cure 2
*Life 2
*QuantmStat

*QuantmStat
Water element
20 MPs
Targets all enemies
Damage = (Level + Magic) x 20



Lucca:
 Hypno Wave
*Fire
 Sniper Shot
*Protect
*Fire 2
 Hyper Bomb
 Wonder Bomb
*Flare

Sniper Shot
(retooled Spincut)

Hyper Bomb
(retooled Mega Bomb)

Wonder Bomb
(retooled FrogSquash)



Robo:
 Heal Beam
 Uzzi Punch
 LaserStorm
 Absolute 0
 Thermonuke
 Strong Arm
 Ultravolt
 Antimatter

Uzzi Punch
(retooled RocketPunch)

Laser Storm
(retooled Laser Spin)

Absolute 0
Water element
Affects immediate area.
10 MPs
Damage = (Level + Magic) x 8

Thermonuke
(retooled Area Bomb)

Strong Arm
(retooled Uzzi Punch)

Ultravolt
(retooled Shock)

Antimatter
Shadow element
Affects all enemies
Damage = (Level + Magic) x 18



Magus:
*Lightning2
*Ice 2
*Fire 2
*Dark Bomb
*Chant
*Dark Mist
*Black Hole
*DarkMatter

*Chant
(retooled Provoke)



Schala
*Cure
*Remedy
*Slow
*Cure 2
*Magic Wall
*Stop
*Auto Life
*Holy

*Remedy
curative
2 MPs
Targets all allies.
Removes all negative statuses.

*Slow
negative status
1 MPs
Affects one enemy.
Inflicts "Slow" status.

*Stop
negative status
8 MPs
Targets one enemy.
Inflicts "Stop" status.

*Auto Life
positive status
12 MPs
Targets one ally.
One-time automatic revival to [(Level + Magic) x 5] HPs upon reaching 0 HPs.

*Holy
Lightning element
20 MPs
Targets all enemies.
Damage = (Level + Magic) x 22



Glenn:
 Leap Cut
*Water
*Heal
 Leap Slash
*Water 2
*Heal 2
 Nirvana X
*Waterfall

Leap Cut
(retooled Slurp Cut)

*Heal 2
curative
5 MPs
Targets all allies.
Restoration = Magic x 8

Nirvana X
(retooled Confuse)

*Waterfall
Water element
20 MPs
Targets all enemies.
Damage = (Level + Magic) x 14


OdF

[Chrono'99]

Just a little suggestion, I don't know what it will be exactly but the final dungeon (the one with the last boss before the final boss) should be some kind of ancient building rising in the sky. There was the Black Omen (with Queen Zeal) in CT which arose from the Ocean Palace, and there was Terra Tower (with the dragon Time Devourer) in CC which arose from Dinopolis...

[teh Schala]

Maybe Lavos could become some weird flying thing and you're exploring his sick innards? =P

[Oswego del Fuego]

I like the idea of a floating fortress.  I also like the idea of a living fortress, as Terra Tower did turn out to basically be the body of the Dragon God's final incarnation.

OdF

[Daniel Krispin]

Here, a sketch I just did very quickly of Sorin. Sorry about him not wielding the Katars, or whatever they're called, but it's near impossible for me to give a good look to someone standing there with such short weapons. Like I said, just a sketch, so it looks pretty bad, but, oh well.

[Hadriel]

Calasperan's going to fill the role of flying fortress this time around.  

Definitely a nice Sorin sketch.

[teh Schala]

King Zeal died when the floating Zeal crashed down in CT.  Thanks to Team Crono's interference in the Ocean Palace, there was enough of a delay for him to evacuate

Unfortunately, it looks like we have a problem...  He's already been dead.  Someone mentioned this before but wasn't sure about it.  However, I just stumbled upon it without really looking.  Have a look.  "She" is Queen Zeal.

[Aitrus]

Not really a big deal, especially since this entire portion of the story is no where near the coding stage yet.

Possibly this could be attributed to Lavos' effects on the Queen?  In the original timeline, Lavos was helping to drive her insane, which led to his "accidental" death.  In the new timeline, with Lavos' influence diminished, the Queen does not go as insane, allowing the King to live.  Could probably be revealed by Schala, after talking to some of the fallen Enlightened Ones in 11,998 BC.

[ZeaLitY]

As I envisioned it, he did "die," but he was taken as the Arbiter of the Frozen Flame in the process. Perhaps he simply left no physical remains in "death," or something was a patsy.