Author Topic: Dreams and Reality in the Chrono Series  (Read 15351 times)

Hiroshino

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Dreams and Reality in the Chrono Series
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2004, 04:06:18 pm »
Quote from: Leebot
Within the game's universe, I would say that this all really happened, but that the mechanics of this universe allow dreams to affect reality in certain circumstances (Turnip and the Black Dragon).


Yeah, that would explain the Black Dragon and Turnip. That would probably fit the, "Dreams can be both dreams and reality in the Chrono world." And the, "...dreams and reality cross themselves in the Chrono world."

But there are still two things that concern me. What about the red time gate that Lucca accessed? And this..

Quote
-Belthasar's notebook in Zeal states humanity first became conscious thanks to a Red Rock which made them able to dream (Dreamstone).

Leebot

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« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2004, 06:19:42 pm »
That probably just means that dreams are a sign of intelligence.

As for Lucca's gate, the entity probably just created it for her as a kind of reward for her going on this quest. Her encounter with Robo shows that this was real and she wasn't dreaming.

ZeaLitY

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« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2004, 06:52:50 pm »
Yes, that was a theory proposed long ago along with the opposite, which suggests Lucca created the Gate herself. This is sort of unlikely.

There we go; found it. This confirms that the apes could dream:

Quote from: Chrono Trigger Script
Ayla: Ayla had strange
   dream.
   Went to Mystic Mountains.
   Everyone lie there, hurt.

   I carry back to hut.

Andrelvis

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« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2004, 07:30:17 pm »
I have a question though.. Do we really know if Ayla is original of prehistoric times or if she appeared in mystic mountain(through the gate) and was raised by the prehistoric people?

Darmani

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« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2004, 10:18:12 pm »
The Ioka are remarkably xenophobic which isn't unusual for a tribal people who live in a time where if it doesn't look/smell like you bash it alot to be damn sure its not gonna kill ya.  Any strangeness would exclude her.  Well its possible she just recently consolidated her respect with beating every single ONE of the ioka tribe leader challengers with her inhuman strength and skill (head to the 65 mill gate BEFore you return to the present from the future.  explains alot)... but since that's not even hinted at.

Really folks Chrono Trigger isn't  about Earth save for the allusions.  Humans walked with Dinos.  The Reptite history is wrong.  WRONG WRONG.  They just hate humans and say stuff to dis them but nothing about it is to be considerred the sacred truth.  Think about it what do the humans think about Reptites.  And what were the reptites like when you see them.  

They were genocidal.  They weren't peaceful co-existers.  And compared to the Ioka and Laruba they were headed more industrially abusive.  Azala practically begged Lavos's fate on the Earth.  They focused so much on a war that devasted a forest and their own race they loss extraordinarily to people who had the lesser advantage

Andrelvis

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« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2004, 01:32:32 am »
Quote from: Darmani
The Ioka are remarkably xenophobic which isn't unusual for a tribal people who live in a time where if it doesn't look/smell like you bash it alot to be damn sure its not gonna kill ya.  Any strangeness would exclude her.


Well, the game hints that Kino is from the future, saying he appeared at mystic mountain and was raised by the prehistoric people, which also proves they aren't xenophobic with other humans.

Chrono'99

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« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2004, 07:03:51 am »
If I recall correctly, the first time you go to the End of Time, besides the future Gate the party came from, 2 other Gates are already open : the Medina Village Gate and the Mystic Mountain Gate... Strange huh?
Quote from: Andrelvis
I have a question though.. Do we really know if Ayla is original of prehistoric times or if she appeared in mystic mountain(through the gate) and was raised by the prehistoric people?

There's also the strange theory about Leah being Ayla's mother... The weirdest stuff is that there's an official artwork showing Leah with something which is clearly a red rock pendant, although this rock is blue in the game (I'm speaking about the artwork with Serge, Leah and Orcha fighting a dragon skeleton).

Hiroshino

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« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2004, 07:31:36 pm »
Man, I seriously hope that Square makes Chrono Brake a reality and that it answers these mysterious questions and such. I'm tired of being confused.. :x  :?  :(

V_Translanka

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« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2005, 08:24:49 pm »
Quote from: Chrono'99
V_Translanka wrote:
Well, in the 200 Year Reunion, it's assumed that what the party (Crono & Co.) saw were the memories of the Entity which was dying and in doing so was trying to show them something important in order to save their world. I was just stating my opinion (of course).

V_Translanka wrote:
Maybe I misread you then...But just to add, a lot of people believe that the Entity created this portal for her specifically...Others believe it was her own will that created it...The latter just seems less likely, if you ask me...

I think you're contradicting yourself here though. If the whole adventure is actually the Entity recalling the important moments of its life, why would it create the Red Gate for Lucca? Lara having (or not having) her legs crippled doesn't appear to be a very important event in the Entity's life.


In actuality though, the Entity doesn't (at least not from my vantage) 'create' the gates at all, simply allows a certain flow of events that leads to their opening...But that's beside the point...The event with Lara is still a memory to the Entity. If you think about it, perhaps it was important in the grand scheme of things because it made Lucca delve into Science...which likewise eventually leads to the opening of the gate...coincidence?

Chrono'99

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« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2005, 07:45:18 am »
The problem is that Lucca becomes a scientist whever Lara is saved or not. In fact, she became a scientist even if you didn't do that side-quest at all...

Symmetry

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« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2005, 04:39:25 pm »
Quote from: Chrono'99
The problem is that Lucca becomes a scientist whever Lara is saved or not. In fact, she became a scientist even if you didn't do that side-quest at all...


I've always thought this was strange. If you fail that scene, Lucca's diary entries say something to the effect that she hates science. I suppose you could write that off as her saying that while overcome with emotion, but the postive entries - I <3 science or whatever they are exactly - give me the impression that the the writers wanted the sidequest to have some effect on Lucca, but never figured out how to integrate it properly. Maybe that's just my shake on that scene, though.

Quote from: Andrelvis
Well, the game hints that Kino is from the future, saying he appeared at mystic mountain and was raised by the prehistoric people, which also proves they aren't xenophobic with other humans.


I don't remember this quote at all. Do you happen to remember where it was said? If Kino were from the future, I would think his dialogue would be a little more complex, don't you? Even if he was dumbing down his intelligence to blend in with the Iokans, when Crono showed up, he would immediately recognize that they didn't belong and drop the sham - or so I'd think. Seems like quite a stretch (to me) for Kino not to be prehistoric.

Andrelvis

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« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2005, 07:02:07 pm »
Quote from: Symmetry

I don't remember this quote at all. Do you happen to remember where it was said? If Kino were from the future, I would think his dialogue would be a little more complex, don't you? Even if he was dumbing down his intelligence to blend in with the Iokans, when Crono showed up, he would immediately recognize that they didn't belong and drop the sham - or so I'd think. Seems like quite a stretch (to me) for Kino not to be prehistoric.


From the CT script:
Quote
[Woman]
   You came from mountain?
   Many strange things happen there.
   That's why name Mystic Mountain.

   Find baby Kino crying on mountain too.
   Chief raise Kino.
   Now chief's right arm.

Symmetry

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« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2005, 01:12:21 am »
Interesting. I had forgotten all about that quote.

If Kino were found there as a baby, that would reconcile his speech with his futuristic heritage. Still, I don't see the point in Kino being from the future - it really adds nothing to the story. You would think that if he was foreign in origin, the writers would have made something of it, wouldn't you?

Radical_Dreamer

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« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2005, 03:05:24 am »
It's possible they intended to. Maybe he was meant to be from the third tribe at some point.

Chrono'99

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« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2005, 09:34:21 am »
You know, during the Ocean Palace disaster, wasn't there an Enlightened woman who got zapped by the Mammon Machine apart from the Gurus and Janus (I don't remember clearly, maybe I'm just imagining it...)? The Gurus and Janus were all teleported to the eras Crono can explore (600AD, 1000AD, 2300AD, End of Time), except 12000BC (obviously), 1999AD and 65000000BC. It's clear that nobody could have been teleported to 1999AD, since Lavos didn't provoke the Apocalypse yet and it was a normal date. So, perhaps that woman was teleported to Prehistory, and perhaps she was pregnant...

It's quite far-fetched, and I don't even personally believe in this theory (sounds more like a fanfic story), since I think the game would have made it clearer and more explicite if it was true, but I just wanted to say it, just in case.