Author Topic: I'm curious...  (Read 11900 times)

nightmare975

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Re: I'm curious...
« Reply #75 on: February 28, 2008, 11:26:58 pm »
"If banning is to be done, let it be done! If the compendium is to be destroyed, so be it! If it is my fate to be banned, I must simply laugh!"

Laugh all you want troll, I hope you're banned, I like seeing Yakra once in awhile.

Trixter

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Re: I'm curious...
« Reply #76 on: February 29, 2008, 12:23:57 am »
Aw come on.  Had Zeality typed that joke and put down his little Star Trek picture you all would have laughed.  Stop being hypocrites.

nightmare975

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Re: I'm curious...
« Reply #77 on: February 29, 2008, 12:47:56 am »
Aw come on.  Had Zeality typed that joke and put down his little Star Trek picture you all would have laughed.  Stop being hypocrites.

For the record Trixter, I hate Star Trek. And I did chuckle a little when I read your line.

Glennleo

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Re: I'm curious...
« Reply #78 on: February 29, 2008, 01:19:27 am »
I thought it was pretty funny lol.

Anyways, he/she hasn't done anything to even be considered for banning.

Arguing on a forum, even if it is with Zeality, is not against the rules.
Hell, it's probably encouraged.

Kebrel

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Re: I'm curious...
« Reply #79 on: February 29, 2008, 02:47:11 am »
I thought it was pretty funny lol.

Anyways, he/she hasn't done anything to even be considered for banning.

Arguing on a forum, even if it is with Zeality, is not against the rules.
Hell, it's probably encouraged.
Amen brother, let him speak




And I think V is close to something, I hadn't thought of Doreen in the pendent.

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: I'm curious...
« Reply #80 on: February 29, 2008, 11:34:18 am »
yeah, i agree.  we don't know WHAT object doreen is an avatar for...

i'm actually REALLY starting to buy this theory.

Trixter

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Re: I'm curious...
« Reply #81 on: February 29, 2008, 11:39:55 am »
yeah, i agree.  we don't know WHAT object doreen is an avatar for...

i'm actually REALLY starting to buy this theory.

Well has the game ever said who made Schala's pendant?  I think it just says that the pendant is made out of "the same red rock as the mammon machine."  The only reason why I ask is because Masa and Mune are suppose to embody Melchiors dreams in the Masamune.  So who's dreams would Doreen be embedding into the pendant?  Perhaps Schala made the pendant and Doreen embodies her dreams.

Thought

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Re: I'm curious...
« Reply #82 on: February 29, 2008, 11:48:22 am »
It is implied that Doreen is also Melchior's dream, as Masa and Mune call her their sister. Additionally, I think Melchior was the one identified with creating both the Mammon Machine and the Pendant. We might then see the Mammon as being "evil" as it would be the only one of Melchior's 3 creations to not have a "soul." It is apart from the theme of dreams.

Trixter

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Re: I'm curious...
« Reply #83 on: February 29, 2008, 12:29:03 pm »
It is implied that Doreen is also Melchior's dream, as Masa and Mune call her their sister. Additionally, I think Melchior was the one identified with creating both the Mammon Machine and the Pendant. We might then see the Mammon as being "evil" as it would be the only one of Melchior's 3 creations to not have a "soul." It is apart from the theme of dreams.

Just because Doreen is referred to as Sister by Masa and Mune does not imply that she is also a dream of Melchior.  They are probably saying it because she is another dream-being like them and therefore their sister in that sense.

Thought

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Re: I'm curious...
« Reply #84 on: February 29, 2008, 01:17:01 pm »
Just because Doreen is referred to as Sister by Masa and Mune does not imply that she is also a dream of Melchior.  They are probably saying it because she is another dream-being like them and therefore their sister in that sense.

It does imply, but it doesn't necessitate. Does anyone know how strict Japanese is with this sort of thing? That is, would a Japanese individual use the phrase "nee-chan" in a general use, such as to imply members of a similar group (sort of like the English phrase "sorority sister") or can "nee-chan" only mean actual sister?

However, looking over the script I can't find any definite connection that Melchior alone created the pendant. The game actually says that the Gurus (plural) made it.

Here are a few seemingly relevant quotes I found through the translation page, for discussion's sake:
Quote
[NA Doreen, Enhasa]
This is the eternal kingdom of Zeal, where dreams can come true.
But at what price?
Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man... or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of sashimi?
Never assume that what you see and feel is real!
I'm Doreen.
Seek the hidden path, and open the doors of knowledge, each in turn.

[RT Doreen, Enharsa]
This is the eternal Magic Kingdom Zeal. The place where all desires come true......
However, there's no telling how high the price for that will reach......
The world that you see with your eyes and the world that I see with my eyes may be completely different things.
Listening? All that exists in the universe are the destinies of lives. Don't think that only what you can see and touch are reality.
I'm Doreen. Seek the way that was shut. Get the order correct and open the door of knowledge.

***

[NA Mune, Zeal Palace]
Big sister Doreen's at Enhasa again
[NA Masa]
Yeah… That's 'cause she likes dreams.
[NA Mune]
I like the wind better! Whoosh!
[NA Masa]
I wonder how ol' man Melchior is... Humans are so odd...

[RT Leon, Zeal Palace]
Doreen nee-chan went to play in Enharsa again.
[RT Gran]
Yeah...... It's cause nee-chan likes dreams.
[RT Leon]
I like the wind better. whooshwhoooosh!
[RT Gran]
Wonder what he's doing, old man Philosopher of Life
Hasn't been around lately...... Sheesh, humans......

***
 [NA Young man, Zeal Palace]
Schala’s pendant was made from the same red rock as the Mammon Machine.
When she chants, the pendant glows.

[RT Young Man]
They say Sara’s pendant was made from the same red stone as the Demonic Vessel.
I’ve heard that when Sara takes the pendant in hand and prays to the Demonic Vessel, it gives off a mysterious radiance.

***
[NA Old Man/Young Man, Zeal Palace]
That glow…?!
That’s the pendant the Gurus made for Schala!!
How did you get it?

[RT Old Man/Young Man]
Oh, that radiance…!?
That is without a doubt what the Philosophers made for Sara!!
How did you ….!?

She certainly seems more... aware in the Retranslation than the NA version. Curiously, Doreen's name doesn't seem to have been researched much yet. It is possible that there is a connection to Doreen Valiente, an early Wiccan and somewhat prolific writer of witchcraft in general (and a practicioner of magic). Or perhaps Doreen Massey, a geographer with some postmodern philosophies that don't seem too alien to Chrono Trigger Doreen's.

The name "Doreen" itself seems to mean something along the lines of "Gift" (from the Greek doron and the -een suffix). It is possible that this may actually be a play on words and that her name actually may mean "Gift of Eve" (-een being a form of evening, which can also be represented as eve). Eve being not only evening before, but also the biblical character. In genetics, "Eve" might be used to refer to a maternal ancestor and it is implied that Marle is related to the Zeal royal family (thus, Marle's pendant is the "gift" of her "maternal ancestor").

It could also be "Gift of Living One/Source of Life" as Eve itself means such in the original Hebrew (derived from Eva). As the dream species have a connection to dreamstone, and in turn the Entity, Doreen might literally be a gift from the planet.

Or it could be Gift of the Evening, as Zeal was certainly in its twilight hours.

Or Doreen might just mean jack squat

placidchap

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Re: I'm curious...
« Reply #85 on: February 29, 2008, 01:31:32 pm »
Or Doreen might just mean jack squat

Doreen could be the name of Ted Woosely's grandma for all we know.

Thought

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Re: I'm curious...
« Reply #86 on: February 29, 2008, 01:49:05 pm »
Doreen could be the name of Ted Woosely's grandma for all we know.

Probably not, as the retranslation keeps Doreen, implying that her Japanese name was the same. It might be the name of Masato Kato's grandma, however

V_Translanka

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Re: I'm curious...
« Reply #87 on: February 29, 2008, 04:05:10 pm »
Doreen's name in Japanese was Dream...I dunno why it doesn't show it as such in that script translation (anyone know if it's Doreen in the actual ROM retranslation? I haven't gotten that far yet *heh heh*)...

Anyways...I've NEVER bought the idea of Masa & Mune being literally Melchior's dreams. Certainly no more than Glenn is literally Cyrus's hopes & dreams...

Thought

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Re: I'm curious...
« Reply #88 on: February 29, 2008, 04:21:11 pm »
Well nerts. Yeah, if her Japanese name was "Dream" then the meaning would be quite straight forward. Got my info from here.

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: I'm curious...
« Reply #89 on: February 29, 2008, 07:17:09 pm »
People should stop trolling. That goes to both of you Trix AND Nightmare. But yeah, everyone, stop taking yo' Chronoz so seriously. Not everything has to have a deep, grand meaning behind it.

EDIT: I just noticed this was the first time I posted in a non-General board for like...a year!