Author Topic: just a thought  (Read 1754 times)

kazmaka

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just a thought
« on: July 29, 2005, 06:34:54 am »
forgive me if someone else has already put forward the notion i am about to, or if you have disproved it already, ive read through most of the articles but not much on this forum. having no experience of chrono cross or radical dreamers this is purely based on CT

there a few points i have, some more important than others :

1) marle's pendant -
why does it react to lucca's machine? presumable because the entity made it, but any further interpretations on this are welcome.
where did she get it from? it has been passed down from generation and looks like schala's so you presume they are one and the same, so marle is schala's decendant? if any can confirm these facts please do, for this creates the same paradox as the queene leene event at the start of the game, during the ocean palace disaster where schala disapears (to be fused with lavos) - which presumably does not happen unless crono interferes - surely this would mean schala has no children, marle does not exist, yet she never disapears. so can someone please clear this up for me, thanks in advance.

2) the wormholes idea of time -
you mentioned before how the wormholes and epoch never take you to the exact time they did the first time you use them, after going through the portal to 600ad, the next time you come all the events that took place while you were there are still existent. i didnt really understand what you were talking about when you cleared it up, but this is my theory - since the ocean palace disaster when janus and the sages were ported to diferent era's of time, this would appear to be when the portals where created, i know you say the entity did this and that could also be used in this theory just in a diferent way but bear with me, the portals where the people are taken are in the same place as where the portals you go through take you, so my idea is that during the ocean palace disaster lavos may have gone out of control and made these time gates (we know lavos has some form of control over time). now we take janus's case, when he goes through the gate he is a child, when crono and co go through the gate he is an adult, so universal time has passed since the ocean palace disaster. we have no idea how much universal time passed so we cannot prove that this time represents anything, my guess is that universal time is simaliar to the time in the lavos's pocket dimension, which goes with the theory the portals where opened by lavos, so therefore the time you arrive at when you go through a portal or use epoch is the designated time of the portal + universal time.
if you are sticking with the theory the time gates were created by the entity, then you could instead call these era's in time the time gates link to, memories of the entity, the era's of time the entity remembers most well and so these era's are the most powerful era's, when the ocean palace disaster occurs, i remain with my idea lavos went slightly out of control or something along these lines he used whatever powers of time he has and sent the people to these era's as they are the easiest places for this to occur, or he just opened a gate, the guru's and janus got sent through, and they were pulled to the times they were as if these times are magnets pulling matter out of the dimension you get sent to when you go through a gate (you must all now the eery visual effects when you jump through a gate, lets call that a dimension). okay tell me what you think about that.

3) time in the end of time -
the end of time i believe to be like lavos's pocket dimension, a dimension out of the universe if you will for i dont really know how to explain it, in fact lets say these are the same dimension, just diferent areas of it, now this is farfechted but the dimensions in which crono and co, serge, and all these dimensions you find out about in CC are inside this larger dimension of which lavos and the EoT inhabit, now lets say each dimension has its own "time", the larger dimensions "time" would be my idea of "universal time" that affects all other dimensions, while the time inside the dimensions (ill take the one from CT as an example) is the time like that of which crono travels, the reason time steadily goes on even when he is time traveling is because of the larger dimensions universal time.

4) exploring this theory -
now this probably contradicts a lot of CT and CC, so needs further exploration. lavos is part of the larger dimension, i will call this dimension X from now on, and crono's dimension Y, so keep up. getting more farfetched, lavos and the EoT probably among other things just exist in dimension X, going through time (we know for sure that EoT does sucumb to time by what belthesar says, he mentions how many poeple have been stumbling into the end of time recently - this in itself could provide many questions if would delve deep enough, but it would be more or less pointless as none of it could be proven in the slightest - now if time did not pass in the EoT everyone who ever went there would be there at the exact same time, and they are not). Knowing how belthesar knows everything that happens in crono's world, we would say that time in the other dimensions is much like a video for beings outside of that dimension to watch, rewind, and fastforward. lavos would be able to go from dimension X to any dimension, he chooses Y, he burrows deep into the core of a planet in Y and creates a pocket dimension - this would be like eating away part of dimension Y so just X remains, from dimension X he can watch every occurance in time on that planet, and choose the best time for him to come of his pocket dimension, into dimention Y and absorb their DNA or whatever he does (for reference i believe that this is the only way for lavos to leave his pocket dimension in dimension Y and return to the expanse of dimension X).
a contradiction to lavos's pocket dimension sucumbing to only universal time would be the fact that if you destroy his shell, it is still there in 12000ad during the ocean palace disaster, this would assume what happens in the ocean palace disaster actaully happened before you destroyed his shell, if you have destroyed his shell before this, it would mean u destroyed his shell during the 1999ad apocalypse, becuase the only times u fight lavos are either at the start of the game (right teleport), the ocean palace or in 1999ad, beating him either time except the latter results in the special ending, and is near impossible unless you are playing a + game, this leads to the general fact that crono NEVER defeats lavos outside of 1999ad, as there is no ending for a result other than this, we know the 1999ad event would be the time when lavos was ready to come out of his dimension and devour the world, so this would be late in universal time, while the ocean palace disaster could be at any time before this occured. one solution to this is that because the pocket dimension is inside dimension Y it is affected by the time of dimension Y, i would say that time travel is only possible if you are in a dimension outside of the one you originated from, EoT, the area you pass through form gate to gate namely dimension X, the pocket dimension is inside dimension Y so lavos cannot travel time inside it, he merely watches time waiting for the right moment, and sometimes intervenes, the ocean palace disaster, of which i will discuss later.

5) lavos's intentions- queen zeal states he is sucking the energy out of the planet, what she means i dont know, i merely know he is evolving humans so that he can merge his dna with theirs, does anyone know for sure why? poeple claim its for food, but how would mergind dna be sustanance, one thing we do know is what happened to lavos when he merged with schala, TD, so did he see this planet in this dimension and see the life-forms which at the time would be lizardmen, but he also saw the humans that once existed, was he interested in the humans, and so he came there, destroyed the lizardmen - by accident or not? - and then started forcing human evolution into a way that will eventaully lead to him evolving himself into an even greater being. now if lavos is using the essence of the planet as sustanance that would be what queen zeal is talking about, maybe he is using the planet as sustanance to continue his efforts of procuring dna to improve himself with.

6) the ocean palace disaster -

The zealians used the sun stones power for magic and such, but the sun stones power is limited and it ran out, the zealians discovered immensive power coming from inside the earth somewhere, they began extracting this energy and using it for their magics, this was lavos's energy which he used to remain alive if you will, for without this energy you would assume he could not open portals or create pocket dimensions, or sustain his life at all. when he noticed his energy being drained, he somehow used the energy the zealians were using to control them, he controlled the queen as it is likely she wanted immense power, lavos just took this ambition and amplified it in her to drive her insane and under lavos's will, he used her to awaken himself so that he could destroy the zealians before they used too much energy, and before they became too powerful to stop him, he then retreated back into the earth to continue his work.

okay my head is hurting now and im forgetting lots of things so ill take a break, please post back on what you think on some of these ideas please, anything is welcome.

Shadow_Dragon

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just a thought
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2005, 12:39:23 pm »
Some of what you said is just written too confusingly to understand
Anyway, I'm going to have to reject your idea of 'universal' time because I think that your original interpretation is flawed (with the portal time + universal time). My interpretation is that the gates/epoch only go forward/background in time in whole years. Like, if I go from 600AD to 1000AD I go forward exactly 400 years, so if it's 2 days after new years in 600AD I'll end up 2 days after new years in 1000AD, instead of at new years in 1000AD, which is why if you go back from 1000AD on new years, spend a week in 600AD, then come back to 1000AD, a week will have passed in 1000AD... I hope that makes sense

There's something called time-error delaying with pocket dimensions, but I don't fully understand it, nor believe it fully, so I wouldn't be the one to explain it

kazmaka

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just a thought
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2005, 12:43:14 pm »
yeh your idea sounds pretty good, and ive heard about that time-error what not, dont understand it at all.

Legend of the Past

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just a thought
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2005, 12:51:45 pm »
It IS Schala's pendent, but that's not to say Schala is related to Marle. The pendent could of washed ashore, or (In the Lavos Timeline, of course) given to the Last Village by Schala, for she would want to discard any memory of that nightmerish Zeal. In both cases, the pendnet would pass down the Last Village leaders and in the end it would reach Guardia's keeping, where it would serve as a token for all Queens\Princess'. The biggest evidence that it was given to the Guardian royal family is the fact Leene never had it. Instead, she has a Corel Pin.

AuraTwilight

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just a thought
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2005, 03:42:46 pm »
Quote
why does it react to lucca's machine?


Most of us agree it was the Entity's doing.

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where did she get it from? it has been passed down from generation and looks like schala's so you presume they are one and the same, so marle is schala's decendant?


Marle inherited from the person before her in the family. Schala is not related to her however. It does not directly state how it went from Schala to the Guardia bloodline, so go with Legend of the Past on this one.

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the wormholes idea of time


I'm not quoting that whole thing. It sounds alright.

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time in the end of time


Sure whatever.

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queen zeal states he is sucking the energy out of the planet, what she means i dont know, i merely know he is evolving humans so that he can merge his dna with theirs, does anyone know for sure why?


Lavos is a parasite. He absorbs energy from the planet as food and absorbs DNA to create better Spawn. Evolution in a heartbeat.

Quote
one thing we do know is what happened to lavos when he merged with schala, TD, so did he see this planet in this dimension and see the life-forms which at the time would be lizardmen, but he also saw the humans that once existed, was he interested in the humans, and so he came there, destroyed the lizardmen - by accident or not?


Probably alittle bit of both. It's irrelevent either way, but we do know he was trying to evolve the perfect species via the Frozen Flame.

Quote
the ocean palace disaster


Exactly! Welcome to the boards! We'll enjoy having you here, I'm sure!

Legend of the Past

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just a thought
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2005, 03:49:35 pm »
Quote
The zealians used the sun stones power for magic and such, but the sun stones power is limited and it ran out


Hmm, no. The sun's power not limited. They just found Lavos had more power.

kazmaka

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just a thought
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2005, 05:13:50 pm »
Quote from: Legend of the Past
Quote
The zealians used the sun stones power for magic and such, but the sun stones power is limited and it ran out


Hmm, no. The sun's power not limited. They just found Lavos had more power.


erm, but doesnt the sun stone turn into a moon stone due to overuse? or did i misread that?

Legend of the Past

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just a thought
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2005, 05:20:30 pm »
Quote from: kazmaka
Quote from: Legend of the Past
Quote
The zealians used the sun stones power for magic and such, but the sun stones power is limited and it ran out


Hmm, no. The sun's power not limited. They just found Lavos had more power.


erm, but doesnt the sun stone turn into a moon stone due to overuse? or did i misread that?


It turns into a Moon Stone because the SoS used the Sun Stone's energy to become active. Beat SoS, all the energy is lost, reverts back to Moon Stone. If you kill Lavos, he's out of energy too, you know.

kazmaka

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just a thought
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2005, 05:38:40 pm »
Quote from: Legend of the Past
Quote from: kazmaka
Quote from: Legend of the Past
Quote
The zealians used the sun stones power for magic and such, but the sun stones power is limited and it ran out


Hmm, no. The sun's power not limited. They just found Lavos had more power.


erm, but doesnt the sun stone turn into a moon stone due to overuse? or did i misread that?


It turns into a Moon Stone because the SoS used the Sun Stone's energy to become active. Beat SoS, all the energy is lost, reverts back to Moon Stone. If you kill Lavos, he's out of energy too, you know.


erm.. actaully im not quite catching your drift about the lavos thing, does any actaully know what the SoS is and where/when it came from, and are you sure? i only played the game a few days ago and im sure i remember someone saying (in-game) that the sun stone got used up, though i admit i have bad memory.

Legend of the Past

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just a thought
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2005, 05:45:25 pm »
No, but a Zealian said they don't need the old Planet's energy. The SoS IS the Sun Stone, but he was told to defend the keep using the Sun Stone's energy. Defeat him, and the Sun Stone loses all it's energy and beomes a Moon Stone.

As for Lavos... An example, nothing more. If you were to defeat Lavos, and someone would be mining his power, then that someone woulden't get anymore energy, being as Lavos no longer produces any energy.

kazmaka

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just a thought
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2005, 05:54:57 pm »
alright i think im getting you now, but i dont think that changes much really, cant really remember what i wrote.