Author Topic: Crono Foreshadowing  (Read 11842 times)

V_Translanka

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Re: Crono Foreshadowing
« Reply #75 on: May 30, 2008, 04:27:24 pm »
Perhaps because the spawn would also contain (largely?) Lavos DNA it sees it as Lavos returning to space?

Also, about the Pendant...if we take TOIE into account we see the Pendant seemingly rise from around Crono's neck, so it probably slipped off right there when they replace Crono w/the clone...

Thought

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Re: Crono Foreshadowing
« Reply #76 on: June 02, 2008, 04:59:31 pm »
Sorry, I'm lost in the acronyms... what does TOIE stand for?

Avalon

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Re: Crono Foreshadowing
« Reply #77 on: June 02, 2008, 05:15:08 pm »
I don't know what it stands for, but isn't it typically used to refer to the anime sequences in the Play Station version?

V_Translanka

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Re: Crono Foreshadowing
« Reply #78 on: June 02, 2008, 06:18:48 pm »
Yes, TOIE is an animation company...they usually deal w/taking over stuff Akira Toriyama doesn't do personally...basically they're like his underlings...and thus not as good... :P

But anyways, I was talking about the anime sequence of Crono's Sacrifice...

radicalblues

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Re: Crono Foreshadowing
« Reply #79 on: June 03, 2008, 01:05:47 pm »
That would be TOEI Animation :p

And I was never sure what that little glitter was supposed to be...

First I thought it was the Time Egg, but no, that shattered before.
Then I thought it was the pendant, but no, you can see it remains in the Ocean Palace with Schala afterwards.
Then I thought it was Crono's soul of some sort o.O.
Then I said, nah, it should be some sort of temporal distortion thingy since it's near to Lavos.

So, I finally figured out it was just the magical sparkly fairy of time. Maybe not...
« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 01:09:36 pm by radicalblues »

Thought

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Re: Crono Foreshadowing
« Reply #80 on: June 03, 2008, 02:48:47 pm »
Ah, that makes a bit more sense. I've only seen the anime sequences on Youtube, but I must have missed that one. Is there a listing somewhere of all the different cut scenes (I didn't find such in the encyclopedia, Wikipedia, rpgamer, etc)?

If the pendant left Crono itself, then that would make the most sense (and it would help support the theory that the pendant is its own acting agent).

radicalblues

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Re: Crono Foreshadowing
« Reply #81 on: June 04, 2008, 01:42:29 pm »
The PSX video doesn't give much more detail on the sparkle, it makes it remain as a... sparkle.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TYiqcNJ6NVg

Now, remember the scene:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=snZM2FE5pjo

The sparkle goes back to the palace along with Schala, Marle, Magus, and the others.
1) Schala uses the last of her pendant's power to teleport you out.
2) The sparkle remains at the Ocean Palace.

If it's the pendant, it REALLY is sentinent in order to teleport out of the Ocean Palace and unto Marle at last village. If Schala's pendant charge ran off at teleporting you out, it's not very unlikely that the other pendant can just teleport ITSELF too, and Marle and the others do seem surprised to find the pendant on them. Not too weird, even the freaking Epoch is sentinent, following you to the last village.

They could have just used the pendant sprite in-game like they do when you open the doors, but maybe the sprite was too bulky and not dramatic... but they could have represented it better in the PSX video <.<... stupid TOEI...
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 01:44:38 pm by radicalblues »

dankun

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Re: Crono Foreshadowing
« Reply #82 on: June 15, 2008, 07:46:24 pm »
1. Multiple people in the topic complained about Janus predicted (felt the Black Wind around Crono or the party) a death, but not being able to predict the Ocean Palace disaster. This is completely off. Janus and Schala were sick worried about feeling the Black Wind, and so Schala wanted to avoid at all costs to summon Lavos.

Indeed. Both Schala and Janus were worried sick about what was about to go down 'down' at the Ocean Palace. Now, they do happen to actually mention the Black Wind in that scene... coincidence? I think not.

2. Belthasar's prophetic abilities are out of record, it's something much greater than the Black Wind. While the Black Wind seems to give me a reading of "bad energy" or "death chill" or "bad presentiment", Belthasar's prophecy is exact. By Chrono Cross Belthasar called himself the Prophet of Time, we never saw anyone else call him that before. I think speculation is great but it really could be anything: the Nu, contact with the Planet, contact with Lavos, the Black Wind, or any mixture or relation of any.

Yeah, it's true, Belthasar does indeed posses some kind of 'super' ability to be able to predict with absolute certainty every single event that was 'fated' to transpire in order for Serge to be able to free Schala. I mean, the Neo-Epoch and FATE are both excellent tools for carrying out such a project... but, would that have helped him predict the timing of Starky's crashing into the El Nido Triangle, Norris' sudden appearance at the exact precise moment in which Kid needed the Hydra Humour to avoid death, etc., etc.?

3. Lavos reigns from IN the planet, that's all that is really said. "Atop Death Peak" is Woosley's invention. Lavos could nest inside the planet NOWHERE near Death Peak. But probably close, since the Black Omen is pretty close to Death Peak in 2300 AD, and his spawns are in Death Peak, after all.

Actually, if you had been paying attention, what Woolsay said in his translation was that Lavos was indeed reigning from atop Death Peak, at the moment at which he decided to erupt from the planet; as in, in 1999 AD, and not at all at the time of despair in which the world was at during 2300 AD. There are 301 years in between those two stated 'quotes', for which some people, apparently, don't find it that it should make that much of a difference.

4. Now, here's what you're forgetting, Mother Brain is the one who talks about Lavos leaving the planet:

I don't know if I would go as far as saying that the she actually mentions that he left the planet. Although it is extremely odd that she would neglect to mention him at all, seeing as how she's all worked up about its 'offspring' interfering with her actual plans for the future of the planet. One would think, if Lavos was still around, that he would've been at the very least considered as a potential 'nuisance' to at least be mentioned by her in the first place.

Yup, she's talking about Lavos children only, as if not minding Lavos at all, as if Lavos had already left the Planet. So:

Yeah, pretty much... I would think. Why else would she neglect to mention him? Either that, or he did, in fact, divided itself (like a virus) into three separate organisms.

a) Either Belthasar didn't knew/was delirating/didn't care/didn't have time to check if Lavos had already left the Planet when you can first talk to him, or when he was writing his shiny notes that declared that Lavos nests IN the Planet.

b) Lavos left the Planet in 2300 AD somewhere during the game (anytime since when you leave 2300 AD till when you visit Mother Brain), this would be possible with no crater or other evidence if he came out from the ground under the sea, and not on a continent. So, Lavos sufraced, went WHEEE I R A ROCKET, and its spawns will LIIIIIIIIKEEELYY do the same.

a) Doesn't matter. The point is that the game doesn't give us enough information to even begin guess at which point (there are 301 years inbetween) he would've left the planet. The game, however, does certainly heavily imply it.

b) That would be my interpretation, as well. As he does actually mention that he was resarching Lavos at some point. He probably stuck around until he knew for a fact, that his little 'baby' spawns would be appropiately taken care of (whatever that implies). As for the crater, I don't think that should even be considered an issue; since we did actually see where he would 'erupt' in the Lavos Day video in Arris Dome, didn't we? In any case, that supposedly always happens then (in 1999 AD) and not at all during 2300.


Anyway, as for some of the other points raised, namely concerning the pendant:
Aren't we forgetting that we do actually get to see what it looks like in the opening FMV? If it was actually meant to be that pendant, wouldn't it look the same there in that other FMV?
I think it's actually suppsed to be his soul or something. As in: Janus' prophecy is actually being fulfilled right then and there, and there was absolutely nothing at all that anyone could've ever done to prevent it from happening.

That's what I get from that cutsecene. Anyway, I highly doubt that was supposed to represent the 'pendant', for any number of reasons:
1) Aren't all items supposed to be 'hold' at inside the party's Item Bag, where all their other items are supposedly held?
2) Why would Crono be holding something that isn't even his, in the first place? Because we never see him returning it to Marle? Phfff... please.

As far as the Pocket Dimension theory is concerned.... I think that it has been heavily implied many times now that it is, in fact, a flawed theory; and that it was under revision at the moment or something.

Satoh

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Re: Crono Foreshadowing
« Reply #83 on: June 15, 2008, 10:21:15 pm »
I'm not gonna refute that big argument there, but here are some thoughts I had.

"Lavos reigns atop death peak" could refer to the Lavos spawn, as, they could also be considered "Lavos"

How do we know there are only 3 or 4 lavoids, there could theoretically be one for every one of those fire jets lavos spews in the 1999 clip... My point is, Lavos could have been done degesting in 1999 and decided to leave, bursting from the ground launching little lavos-missiles (each of which presumably to wander around and grow until its big enough to make space jump) and leaves the planet.

Now, wouldn't that paint a portrait of a parasite, leaving hundreds of its own spawn in its wake?

Again, this is just a thought I had.

StormTR

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Re: Crono Foreshadowing
« Reply #84 on: June 16, 2008, 02:28:30 am »
Well, for what my thought's worth, I don't think anybody would deny that Lavos is/was a parasite. Though you do have to wonder about whether it left the planet by 2300 AD or not. I can't remember exactly, but does Queen Zeal say anything about it to imply whether he's left or not in the Black Omen?

Lakonthegreat

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Re: Crono Foreshadowing
« Reply #85 on: June 19, 2008, 12:27:41 pm »
Well, for what my thought's worth, I don't think anybody would deny that Lavos is/was a parasite. Though you do have to wonder about whether it left the planet by 2300 AD or not. I can't remember exactly, but does Queen Zeal say anything about it to imply whether he's left or not in the Black Omen?

Well there are the theories that Lavos actually IS Death Peak. Like underneath the snow and ice, Lavos rests. See I think it could be a viable explanation, judging by where on the continent he emerges in 1999, and by that amount of time with the cold, ruined atmosphere, tons of ash and dust could have settled on its shell.

Gluttony

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Re: Crono Foreshadowing
« Reply #86 on: June 19, 2008, 01:00:00 pm »
Well, for what my thought's worth, I don't think anybody would deny that Lavos is/was a parasite. Though you do have to wonder about whether it left the planet by 2300 AD or not. I can't remember exactly, but does Queen Zeal say anything about it to imply whether he's left or not in the Black Omen?

Well there are the theories that Lavos actually IS Death Peak. Like underneath the snow and ice, Lavos rests. See I think it could be a viable explanation, judging by where on the continent he emerges in 1999, and by that amount of time with the cold, ruined atmosphere, tons of ash and dust could have settled on its shell.
Wow....now, wouldn't that be a mind boggle? Are there any theories on this site that has that? I know I've read a huge majority of them a while ago. Haven't checked in lately.

Lakonthegreat

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Re: Crono Foreshadowing
« Reply #87 on: June 19, 2008, 02:59:47 pm »
Well, for what my thought's worth, I don't think anybody would deny that Lavos is/was a parasite. Though you do have to wonder about whether it left the planet by 2300 AD or not. I can't remember exactly, but does Queen Zeal say anything about it to imply whether he's left or not in the Black Omen?

Well there are the theories that Lavos actually IS Death Peak. Like underneath the snow and ice, Lavos rests. See I think it could be a viable explanation, judging by where on the continent he emerges in 1999, and by that amount of time with the cold, ruined atmosphere, tons of ash and dust could have settled on its shell.
Wow....now, wouldn't that be a mind boggle? Are there any theories on this site that has that? I know I've read a huge majority of them a while ago. Haven't checked in lately.
Well, that's my personal belief, but I believe it originated in the Death Peak article in the Encyclopedia. I think they could have done more with that area. In fact, if Sony would have kept its deal with Nintendo to make the Playstation, I think that this game could have been fleshed out a LOT more. Like CE, but for the initial game.

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: Crono Foreshadowing
« Reply #88 on: June 19, 2008, 05:37:38 pm »
I've actually never heard the rumor about Death Peak existing around and on top of Lavos.  Most interesting... I like it.

radicalblues

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Re: Crono Foreshadowing
« Reply #89 on: June 20, 2008, 06:30:27 am »
Yeah, it's true, Belthasar does indeed posses some kind of 'super' ability to be able to predict with absolute certainty every single event that was 'fated' to transpire in order for Serge to be able to free Schala. I mean, the Neo-Epoch and FATE are both excellent tools for carrying out such a project... but, would that have helped him predict the timing of Starky's crashing into the El Nido Triangle, Norris' sudden appearance at the exact precise moment in which Kid needed the Hydra Humour to avoid death, etc., etc.?

Eh... suddendly reading that I had a moment of awakening at 4 am <_< very probably someone has already said this, or maybe it's so terribly obvious no one said it, but... has anyone considered that Belthasar is no more of a prophet than Magus was on Zeal?...

That's right. Belthasar had the Neo-Epoch. He could had been jumping in time over the eras studying even the smallest gossips of El Nido. After knowing that, it doesn't take much of a genius to predict things like the Dragon God stealing the Frozen Flame.

Same for Kid. Did Belthasar really orchestrated the creation of Kid and so on... or did he just watched in time how Schala created Kid to try to save Serge, and he just altered things after that at his convenience?

In short, Belthasar could just see things happen beforetime. He didn't need to predict a thing. During Chrono Cross itself he could had been time-jumping to "predict" future events. We do know that Belthasar at least used it in the end.

Actually, if you had been paying attention, what Woolsay said in his translation was that Lavos was indeed reigning from atop Death Peak, at the moment at which he decided to erupt from the planet; as in, in 1999 AD...

Uh, wait. The line comes from Belthasar's notes to the party... Belthasar arrived to the post-apocalypse world, long after Lavos had awakened... how does the line refer to Lavos reigning in 1999? I don't thing there's even a Death Peak in 1999...

(About the pendant) Aren't we forgetting that we do actually get to see what it looks like in the opening FMV? If it was actually meant to be that pendant, wouldn't it look the same there in that other FMV?

Yep, that was my confusion... but believe me, TOEI can seriously ruin things... not to mention it was already too ambiguous in the SNES version, as they also had a pendant sprite, but showed a sparkle similar to a Tab instead.

I also had the idea of it being Crono's soul. But on the other side, the evidence that supports the sparkle being the pendant, is that Marle (or current party member) looks surprised to see the pendant on them, as if (yeah as if, as if) Crono had it.

Well, for what my thought's worth, I don't think anybody would deny that Lavos is/was a parasite. Though you do have to wonder about whether it left the planet by 2300 AD or not. I can't remember exactly, but does Queen Zeal say anything about it to imply whether he's left or not in the Black Omen?

Ah... the Queen either says "The Mighty Lavos has already consumed this world's life energy" or "This planet has been completely devoured by the god Lavos"...

Which is Sorta what Satoh said, seems Lavos had satisfied himself with the Planet and just left his offsprings. If he left or not was not implied by the Queen.