Author Topic: On Theism  (Read 13240 times)

Hadriel

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On Theism
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2007, 01:18:13 am »
"Without God, all things are possible."

On that subject, consider this quote: "The scientific method is, in itself, unscientific."

Uhhhh, no it's not.  Whoever said that is a fucktard.

alpha

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On Theism
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2007, 11:10:31 am »
"Without God, all things are possible."

On that subject, consider this quote: "The scientific method is, in itself, unscientific."

Uhhhh, no it's not.  Whoever said that is a fucktard.

Science is trial and error which is by its own definition unscientific. Thats called learning by mistake.. which would make our children the best scientist in the world look at everything they learn by saying things wrong.. doing things wrong.....

soo..... yes The scientific method is, in itself, unscientific.


But back to what I meant. Ok He creates a rock that he can not lift then creates a way to lift it. but I never made the claim that"god" is omnipotent or omnicient. I just said he exists.. you want proof. then hows this

Anything that one person imagines exists even if in that persons head alone. Belief has a power in it. This is not to say that if everyone on earth believes that the moon is made of cheese then it wil actually be made of cheese. but if everyone on earth believes that chocolate tastes like strawberries and straberries like chocolate then by consensus alone that is how it is... If everyone believes that people are wrong and red is actully joooga then it becomes jooga.

The belief in god in and of itself makes him exist in one way or another. however I believe that the gods of the different religion are aspects of the same being. Hence the wiccans would not be going to "hell " because they themselves worship a
"holy trinity"

On top of this if you read into the post well engough I Said Prove it not just ot those disproving his existance but to those proving it as well

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: On Theism
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2007, 03:14:23 pm »
Split and moved from analysis because this thread stopped having anything to do with Chrono Trigger a while ago.

You may proceed.

Kyronea

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Re: On Theism
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2007, 09:52:12 pm »


Science is trial and error which is by its own definition unscientific. Thats called learning by mistake.. which would make our children the best scientist in the world look at everything they learn by saying things wrong.. doing things wrong.....

soo..... yes The scientific method is, in itself, unscientific.
No. No it isn't. Science cannot be unscientific because it is science. Science is all about learning from mistakes to come to the conclusion that is most likely to be correct. You are mistaking the layman's understanding of science for actual science, which, while typical, is always incorrect.

Scientists don't decide something then try to prove that their something exists and deny any evidence to the contrary. They conceive a hypothesis--what the layman for some odd reason brands a theory--then test it through experimentation. The evidence gathered in that experiment is then used to modify the hypothesis, and the sequence is repeated until the experiments continuously show the hypothesis to be the correct interpretation, at which point the hypothesis is given the term theory, which for scientists is the closest they will come to saying fact. Theory for scientists is a completely different word from that used by the layman, hence why scientists are often extremely  frustrated when people use the idiotic phrase "It's just a theory!"

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But back to what I meant. Ok He creates a rock that he can not lift then creates a way to lift it. but I never made the claim that"god" is omnipotent or omnicient. I just said he exists.. you want proof. then hows this

Then try defining your terms before you simply toss around a word. It really helps narrow down what we are discussing.

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Anything that one person imagines exists even if in that persons head alone.
False.
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Belief has a power in it.
Can you prove this?
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This is not to say that if everyone on earth believes that the moon is made of cheese then it wil actually be made of cheese. but if everyone on earth believes that chocolate tastes like strawberries and straberries like chocolate then by consensus alone that is how it is... If everyone believes that people are wrong and red is actully joooga then it becomes jooga.
Nonono. See, what you are saying here does not define reality, merely how we interpret specific elements of reality. The taste of chocolate and strawberries will not change if all humans come to a consensus that one tastes like the other: we will simply define them as tasting like the other. Similarly, in basic ten mathematics 6x9 will not equal 58 no matter how many people come to the consensus that it does. We cannot change reality through belief. We can reinterpret it, and mess with semantics, but that interpretation will be incorrect, and potentially dangerous, depending on what we reinterpret. Obviously reinterpreting the taste of chocolate and strawberries probably won't harm anything, but making elementary mistakes with math can and will.

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The belief in god in and of itself makes him exist in one way or another. however I believe that the gods of the different religion are aspects of the same being. Hence the wiccans would not be going to "hell " because they themselves worship a
"holy trinity"

Your statement here has done nothing to prove your claim of God's existence. You simply state that belief has a power--an assumption that I am about to prove incorrect--and then state that because humanity believes in God, He must exist.

Sorry, but reality doesn't work that way. Belief cannot possibly cause something to come into existance, because that violates all laws of physics, and we have never, NEVER had ANY evidence at ALL that such a thing occurs.

Case in point: millions of people imagine themselves to be richer. I myself am imagining that a 100 dollar bill is appearing in my hand at this very instant.


...

Nothing happened. Why? Because it is impossible.
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On top of this if you read into the post well engough I Said Prove it not just ot those disproving his existance but to those proving it as well
...

Did you just tell us to do your work for you? Sorry, but no. We are arguing against the existence of God. You are arguing for the existence of God. Therefore, the burden of proof is upon you. We simply must offer evidence against your claims, which is exactly what we've done.

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: On Theism
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2007, 04:58:35 am »
If by belief you mean the power to move the masses, the power to guide your life, the power to give you hope in dark times, and to crush your them when they prove false, then yes, belief does have power in it. Belief, and faith in anything, has probably created the most warfare, the most brilliant inventions, and has changed society far more rapidly than anything we can imagine. Why? Because if you don't believe in what you are saying, or fighting for, or anything, then you have no power - not even over yourself. That is exactly why people support organized religion, and on the other hand, why people loathe it.

Or, if by power you mean *woo wee woo wee!* mind control, or in a Discworld belief-creates-things system, then no, you are wrong.

dan_death

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Re: On Theism
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2007, 05:01:06 am »
For me, I let people believe what they want to believe, but sometimes I question it, but most of the time just keep it to myself. But I stopped believing in "God" years ago. But there are so many things that can be possible; different universes, if there is a God, he could have been created also, and much more. We never may know the real truth.

Kyronea

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Re: On Theism
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2007, 05:36:53 am »
If by belief you mean the power to move the masses, the power to guide your life, the power to give you hope in dark times, and to crush your them when they prove false, then yes, belief does have power in it. Belief, and faith in anything, has probably created the most warfare, the most brilliant inventions, and has changed society far more rapidly than anything we can imagine. Why? Because if you don't believe in what you are saying, or fighting for, or anything, then you have no power - not even over yourself. That is exactly why people support organized religion, and on the other hand, why people loathe it.

Oh, yes, that certainly exists, since it's an easily observable phenomenon. It's just the reflection of one's strength of will, the strength of mind--their mental and emotional state, to put it more simply--that's all, and I certainly wasn't going argue against that.
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Or, if by power you mean *woo wee woo wee!* mind control, or in a Discworld belief-creates-things system, then no, you are wrong.
That's what I was arguing against.

For me, I let people believe what they want to believe, but sometimes I question it, but most of the time just keep it to myself. But I stopped believing in "God" years ago. But there are so many things that can be possible; different universes, if there is a God, he could have been created also, and much more. We never may know the real truth.
The one problem I have with your statement is the final line: "We may never know the truth."

I disagree. Given what humanity has shown itself capable of, humanity can go so much further. If we play our cards right and we avoid screw-ups and prevent cosmic problems like asteroids/comets/some other body crashing into the planet, pandemics, and whatever else might kill off our species, then I say we are more than capable of existing till the end of the universe, and perhaps beyond into the next universe...presuming of course that the theory of universal creation and destruction cycling is correct...but that's the whole point: to find out. To discover. To learn. As long as we do not make mistakes that are easily avoidable and take the time to remove the obstacles not created by ourselves, we can have enough time to find out everything, to learn every secret and bit of knowledge we can. While no individual can possibly know absolutely everything, the species can more or less gather about that amount of knowledge.

Will we learn absolutely every last little thing? No, because that is impossible, as proven by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. But will we learn everything that IS possible to know? I say we will.

Call me a ridiculous optimist, because that's what I am, but it's what I say. And the best part?

The best part?

It will be all our doing. We won't have gathered that knowledge because some deity gave us/the universe life. We won't be gifted that knowledge. We will have accomplished it ourselves, through our own hard work and skill, and that, THAT my friends is far more exciting than any god existing ever will be.

Lord J Esq

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Re: On Theism
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2007, 06:46:03 am »
Ah, the merry-go-round of life continues! Carry on, carry on, don't mind me.

Kyronea

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Re: On Theism
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2007, 06:54:54 am »
Ah, the merry-go-round of life continues! Carry on, carry on, don't mind me.
Oh do please pitch in.

cupn00dles

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Re: On Theism
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2007, 10:04:45 am »















I kid you not.

Glennleo

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Re: On Theism
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2007, 10:36:15 am »
What the hell?

Cupn00dles what's with all the monkeys, and that nice ass? (I forget her name, but I've seen that video.)

Kyronea

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Re: On Theism
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2007, 10:51:35 am »
Ramen, please do not spam threads.

cupn00dles

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Re: On Theism
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2007, 10:54:10 am »
(I forget her name, but I've seen that video.)

Everybody has.


Ramen, please do not spam threads.

Believe it or not, that post has more meaning and actual content than most other posts in this thread.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 10:55:49 am by cupn00dles »

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: On Theism
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2007, 03:09:16 pm »
Ah, the merry-go-round of life continues! Carry on, carry on, don't mind me.

Of course, the merry-go-round now has us going around the sun. Hopefull, isn't it?

Sora

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Re: On Theism
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2007, 04:33:47 pm »
i think it says in the bible that you cant "prove" God exists 100%.
if you dont want to believe in him you're not going to think hes real.
he could come down and kick you in the nuts and you'd still say hes a fake.
anyway, you also cant prove 100% he doesnt exist.
both require faith.

this argument reminds me of gaia vs 4chan.