Author Topic: Spekkio...  (Read 45010 times)

razor's edge

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Spekkio...
« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2005, 04:19:10 pm »
Who's to say how big the End of Time is anyway? But, if Spekkio is a god and doesn't possess the ability to travel through time, then after everything else ended he'd be still swimming around in the end of time. Plus, I'd imagine it would be nice to have something tangible to stand on and whatnot, so Spekkio could've found those pillars of light, and created the floor and whatnot at the end of time. I would think being flung into the end of time by a sudden Lavos-portal wouldn't be an exact science, considering they all fell into one portal but ended up at completely different times, so Gaspar could have landed anywhere, and Spekkio found him and brought him to the platform with the time gate pillars.

Faulce

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Spekkio...
« Reply #61 on: January 27, 2005, 04:40:17 pm »
Quote from: Arc Impulse
Quote from: Faulce
Quote from: Arc Impulse
In the Japanese version, Spekkio himself states that he's the God of War. (See my translation thread in GD)
In the american version he says the same.

No, in the US version he calls himself the "Master of War".  God = definitely not a kosher word with the Nintendo censors of the time.  They started loosening up slightly around Chrono Trigger's era, but it was still put to most of the same standards as earlier SNES RPGs.

Ah yes, sorry. Yea "master" and "god" certainly do have different implications.
Quote from: razor's edge
Who's to say how big the End of Time is anyway? But, if Spekkio is a god and doesn't possess the ability to travel through time, then after everything else ended he'd be still swimming around in the end of time. Plus, I'd imagine it would be nice to have something tangible to stand on and whatnot, so Spekkio could've found those pillars of light, and created the floor and whatnot at the end of time. I would think being flung into the end of time by a sudden Lavos-portal wouldn't be an exact science, considering they all fell into one portal but ended up at completely different times, so Gaspar could have landed anywhere, and Spekkio found him and brought him to the platform with the time gate pillars.

Perhaps, but that doesnt quite help explain who spekkio is and what he is doing at the end of time. Why would those pillars of light just be sitting right there when he found them? Unless Gaspar has something to do with his creation, I think its reasonable to infer that Spekkio resides at the EoT to observe and enjoy the various battles occurring throughout time. But thats only if Gaspar and Spekkio are completely separate.

razor's edge

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Spekkio...
« Reply #62 on: January 27, 2005, 10:54:35 pm »
Quote from: Faulce
Quote from: razor's edge
Who's to say how big the End of Time is anyway? But, if Spekkio is a god and doesn't possess the ability to travel through time, then after everything else ended he'd be still swimming around in the end of time. Plus, I'd imagine it would be nice to have something tangible to stand on and whatnot, so Spekkio could've found those pillars of light, and created the floor and whatnot at the end of time. I would think being flung into the end of time by a sudden Lavos-portal wouldn't be an exact science, considering they all fell into one portal but ended up at completely different times, so Gaspar could have landed anywhere, and Spekkio found him and brought him to the platform with the time gate pillars.

Perhaps, but that doesnt quite help explain who spekkio is and what he is doing at the end of time. Why would those pillars of light just be sitting right there when he found them? Unless Gaspar has something to do with his creation, I think its reasonable to infer that Spekkio resides at the EoT to observe and enjoy the various battles occurring throughout time. But thats only if Gaspar and Spekkio are completely separate.


Okay. Let's assume for a moment that Spekkio is who he says he is, God of War. Gods in Roman mythology went along with the flow of time just like any normal person, so Spekkio has been around all through the ages and whatnot. Time eventually comes to an end, but since Spekkio is immortal-God-guy, he's left to his own devices at the EoT.

Now for the pillars of light.  They link to many important time periods of that planet's history. I assume that can't be random; they so conveniently linked to every time needed by Crono and Co. to rid the planet of Lavos, so I think it's a good chance that the Entity put them there.  In all possibility, after time ended, the Entity probably put Spekkio there for the same purpose as the pillars. So if Spekkio is the God of War, and the creation of the Entity, then he's like some sort of Son-of-God type deal, except warlike. And it could be said that he holds the keys to salvation from Lavos, since he unlocks the magical ability of Crono and Co., since without it they wouldn't get very far against Lavos.

V_Translanka

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Spekkio...
« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2005, 12:52:54 am »
That makes sense. I think a lot of people simply go under the assumption that Spekkio is originally in the End of Time, either that he outlasts time and is there even before Gaspar, or that he is transported to the End of Time in the original, Lavos, Timeline. It makes sense that the Entity would find a way to give the heroes Magic by some means, so perhaps it used Spekkio as that means. Although, all of that is pure speculation...It still makes sense. I had always been under the impression that Spekkio had to be from Zeal era to be so Magically advanced, where no other era really knows much at all about magic. Perhaps he was transported to an earlier point in the End of Time (the End of Time has it's own flow of time, of course) and he is actually a sort of evolved Nu...Mebby...

Faulce

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Spekkio...
« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2005, 04:28:44 am »
Quote from: razor's edge
Okay. Let's assume for a moment that Spekkio is who he says he is, God of War. Gods in Roman mythology went along with the flow of time just like any normal person, so Spekkio has been around all through the ages and whatnot. Time eventually comes to an end, but since Spekkio is immortal-God-guy, he's left to his own devices at the EoT.

Now for the pillars of light.  They link to many important time periods of that planet's history. I assume that can't be random; they so conveniently linked to every time needed by Crono and Co. to rid the planet of Lavos, so I think it's a good chance that the Entity put them there.  In all possibility, after time ended, the Entity probably put Spekkio there for the same purpose as the pillars. So if Spekkio is the God of War, and the creation of the Entity, then he's like some sort of Son-of-God type deal, except warlike. And it could be said that he holds the keys to salvation from Lavos, since he unlocks the magical ability of Crono and Co., since without it they wouldn't get very far against Lavos.

ok, understandable enough. however let me offer my viewpoints based on a few details gathered so far that are not pure speculation:
(1) Spekkio refers to himself as the Master of War and says he watches battles from his vantage point.
(2) In the Japanese version, he refers to himself as the "God of War", so he is a god of some sort.
(3) He alternates forms/battle tactics based on the strength of his opponents.
(4) His strongest form seen is a red Nu with all of the strongest spells the characters possess combined, and others not used by the party.
(5) He can use multiple elements with ease, many spells that are apparently not shared with other characters can all be found with Spekkio.
Speculation begins:
(1,2) Spekkio is a "god", created by Gaspar for reasons unknown.
(1,2) Spekkio is a "god", created by the Entity for the purpose of equipting Crono and company with the tools they need to defeat Lavos.
(1,2) Spekkio is a "god", how he came into existence and the reason for his presence are unknown, but he has survived beyond Time's ending and now lives with Gaspar, who was sent to the End of Time via a gate Lavos created.
(1,2) Spekkio is actually a Nu and is bound by whatever laws the Nu exist by, which were discussed my earlier in this topic, but I'm not going to bother listing them out :)
(3) He can shapeshift, implying no permanent form, he offers to fight the party for practice, and regardless of the victor, everyone comes out unscathed.
(3) Going from what I said above, he has the ability to instantly heal the party or:
(3) Going from what I said above, his attacks aren't "real"; they don't actually do damage, the party just assumes it during the fight, as if "mind over matter" thoughts took over during the fight. One could make this connection to the thought that he is a product of Gaspar, specifically, Gaspar's dreams.
(4) If he does not possess these spells, perhaps he can mimic his opponents understanding of magic, giving him a powerful edge to always have his enemy's best move within his grasp.
(5) He is truly a god, he is all-powerful. or:
(5) He is Shadow-based, but very skilled, so he can use all of the elements just as Magus can [he can sense Magus's power when they meet, he says that Magus could teach him a thing or two. or:
(5) He is a god, he isnt based on any element, he has a perfect balance of all four so he is free to do as much as he wishes with them.

So yea, I think I've covered many of the important details about Spekkio so far, add as you wish of course.

V_Translanka

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Spekkio...
« Reply #65 on: January 29, 2005, 05:24:34 am »
In the end, the party doesn't die, but they do sustain damage. If you lose, everyone's down to 1HP. It's the same if any one character dies in battle.

I think the fact that he uses Hallitation is unique since only he and Zeal use the attack. Also, Salt is his one solo Tech claim to fame. And, of course, he can pass on the ability to use Magic to others...although, how unique that is exactly is up to speculation (those of Zeal obviously had to have gotten their Magic somehow).

Faulce

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Spekkio...
« Reply #66 on: January 29, 2005, 11:26:55 am »
Quote from: V_Translanka
In the end, the party doesn't die, but they do sustain damage. If you lose, everyone's down to 1HP. It's the same if any one character dies in battle.

I think the fact that he uses Hallitation is unique since only he and Zeal use the attack. Also, Salt is his one solo Tech claim to fame. And, of course, he can pass on the ability to use Magic to others...although, how unique that is exactly is up to speculation (those of Zeal obviously had to have gotten their Magic somehow).

(1) Are you sure? I seem to remember everyone being completely restored after the battle regardless of the result, though i may be wrong. (2) And speaking of the spell "Salt", does anyone know the Japanese name for the spell? (3) He says that no one was able to use magic except wizards. I assume that he means the people banned the use of magic after the the fall of Zeal. Saying that no one was "allowed", implies that humans in general still have the ability, its just forbidden. After something is not used for an extended period of time, it would be forgotten. So I think Spekkio made the party "aware" of their abilities, or "unlocked" them, so he cannot "pass magic on", nor does he actually teach them magic. In the game menu, before you even see Spekkio, the banners above the characters stats reading either Lightning (Heaven), Fire, Water, or Shadow are there. Ayla and Robo never have these banners because Ayla was born before humans were altered by Lavos and Robo is a machine. My thinking is that the abilities were all there, just hidden from view. If someone could direct me towards an exact translation of this conversation with Spekkio (when the party first meets him), that would be very nice.

razor's edge

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Spekkio...
« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2005, 02:43:46 pm »
It's stated within the game that the Zealians got their magic from Lavos through the mammon machine, and before that they got magic from the sun stone.  

And after the fall of Zeal, no one who used the mammon machine to get their magic were able to use it anymore.  They weren't forbidden to use magic, they couldn't use magic. One of the former Enlightened Ones says something along the lines of "We Enlightend Ones have lost our magic. No distinction remains between us and the Earthbound Ones anymore." (not sure on the exact wording, but it was something along those lines)

Faulce

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Spekkio...
« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2005, 03:22:17 pm »
Quote from: razor's edge
It's stated within the game that the Zealians got their magic from Lavos through the mammon machine, and before that they got magic from the sun stone.  

And after the fall of Zeal, no one who used the mammon machine to get their magic were able to use it anymore.  They weren't forbidden to use magic, they couldn't use magic. One of the former Enlightened Ones says something along the lines of "We Enlightend Ones have lost our magic. No distinction remains between us and the Earthbound Ones anymore." (not sure on the exact wording, but it was something along those lines)

Quote from: Enlightened One
[Woman]
   A few «Enlightened Ones» did survive.
   But no distinctions remain between the
   «Enlightened» and the «Earthbound»
   anymore.

That's what it really says. Janus, despite having exceptional powers, probably had little more knowledge than any normal Enlightened One. All of them had their powers unlocked through Lavos and extensive research - some where simply stronger than others. The only exceptional magicians who survived the fall of Zeal were the Gurus, Zeal, Janus, Dalton and (sort of) Schala. Lavos evolved human beings into potential harnessers of magic, so the Enlightened Ones can still use it. They used the Mammon Machine as a power source, probably to create powerful items, weapons, materials, and to keep their continent afloat (i doubt anyone on earth had the power to keep that thing in the air permanently)

GrayLensman

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Spekkio...
« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2005, 05:05:44 pm »
Quote from: Faulce
Quote from: razor's edge
It's stated within the game that the Zealians got their magic from Lavos through the mammon machine, and before that they got magic from the sun stone.  

And after the fall of Zeal, no one who used the mammon machine to get their magic were able to use it anymore.  They weren't forbidden to use magic, they couldn't use magic. One of the former Enlightened Ones says something along the lines of "We Enlightend Ones have lost our magic. No distinction remains between us and the Earthbound Ones anymore." (not sure on the exact wording, but it was something along those lines)

Quote from: Enlightened One
[Woman]
   A few «Enlightened Ones» did survive.
   But no distinctions remain between the
   «Enlightened» and the «Earthbound»
   anymore.

That's what it really says. Janus, despite having exceptional powers, probably had little more knowledge than any normal Enlightened One. All of them had their powers unlocked through Lavos and extensive research - some where simply stronger than others. The only exceptional magicians who survived the fall of Zeal were the Gurus, Zeal, Janus, Dalton and (sort of) Schala. Lavos evolved human beings into potential harnessers of magic, so the Enlightened Ones can still use it. They used the Mammon Machine as a power source, probably to create powerful items, weapons, materials, and to keep their continent afloat (i doubt anyone on earth had the power to keep that thing in the air permanently)

According to the Innate Magical Ability Theory, only a limited number of beings can harness the power of the elements directly, including Queen Zeal, Janus, Schala, the gurus, Dalton, the time travelers, some Mystics, and some other non-human beings.  The Enlightened Ones of Zeal required an external source of Elemental Energy, such as the Sun Stone or Mammon Machine.

Magic is considered to be an inherent genetic trait, selected for by Lavos through its genetic manipulation.  Only living things born after Lavos' arrival can use magic.  Some people, such as the Earthbound Zealians or prehistoric humans, did not have this genetic trait at all and could not use magic in any form.  Others, such as the Enlightened Zealians, had the genetic trait, but the genes were only partially expressed.  They could use magic, but they required an external source of elemental energy.  The time travelers may have fallen into this category because their ability had to be unlocked by Spekkio.  Fully innate magic users, with a fully expressed genes, are extremely rare among humans, with none born after the fall of Zeal.  Mystics and other beings who use magic are fully innate.

V_Translanka

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Spekkio...
« Reply #70 on: January 30, 2005, 10:58:24 pm »
Maybe the trait divided the people? So that then, it became less common as it became under less people and it became more focused. But then after the Fall, it spread out again (or there really wasn't many of those with the trait) and became less focused.

And yes, Faulce, when you lose to Spekkio, your party's HP is 1. I know because I wouldn't have cared as much about fighting him if i was restored after i lost. But because i was down to 1 HP, i had to go out to the bucket to heal.

Also, I'm fairly sure Salt was just Salt...I remember asking someone else a long time ago in GameFAQs, I think...

Also, it never said that Zeal got MAGIC from the Sun Stone, just power.

SilentMartyr

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Spekkio...
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2005, 11:31:55 am »
The true god theory troubles me. The thing that bothers me about it is that when Spekkio meets Magus he says that he can teach him a thing or two. Not exactly something a God would say. Unless the Original translation is different, I find It hard to beleive Speekio is a real god. I would lean more towards a physical embodiment of Gaspar's dreams. But that still doesn't explain how he found the matierials to make Spekkio.

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Spekkio...
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2005, 05:35:36 pm »
Well, I don't think that those that believe he's a true god believe he's an ultimate, all-knowing, undying entity...Heck, even the Entity gets itself into a jam, right? He calls himself the God of War, which makes me believe he's more like a Greek or Roman god. Or perhaps, since it was made there, Japanese. He's a god that is not perfect and can still die and can still learn new things just like everyone else. I mean, the party can still defeat him in a battle.

Leebot

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Spekkio...
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2005, 07:59:49 pm »
Yeah, I'm of the belief that if he is a god, it's in the Greek/Roman or Norse sense. Their the type who constantly warred with each other and were more "human" than the Judeo-Christian god.

A side note, but I wouldn't call him a Japanese god. (I'm not an expert on Japanese culture, this is just what I've heard/pieced together.) The main religion of Japan, Shintoism is comparable to Buddhism. The closest it has to a god is Ashura (comparable to Buddha). Beyond that, the religion focuses heavily on spirits and one's connection to one's ancestors.

SilentMartyr

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Spekkio...
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2005, 01:32:55 pm »
That's true, I kinda overlooked that in my statement. I gues him being a Norse/Greeklike god would be the best explination, since it can easily describe how the sturctures in the EoT were built and where he came from.