Author Topic: Faith-Based Topic  (Read 3217 times)

Romana

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« on: August 25, 2006, 10:33:19 am »
The Liquid Bomb threat was really hyped up in the media. Foiling bomb attempts happen all the time.


True.  It would make your head explode if you knew just how many foiled bomb attempts on airlines and airports there were quarterly worldwide.  Working in the business of international aviation, our security department is always updating us with new 'threat' data.  And weíre jacked into the FAA and TSA, and get all their chatter, to say nothing of the ICAO.

So believe me when I say that an attempt of this magnitude has not been made in -oh I donít know - the last five years or so. Give or take a few weeks.

don't forget all the shouts of WW3 going out. dude... we have 102 nukes, each one dubbed "world destorers class." that means each missle is a multitip warhead which brakes into 5 different nukes. We have also developed a bomb that will not destroy the surrounding area, but erridcates all organics (minus plants, oddly enough) in a 25 mile radius (costed us 1 billion to make 1.). you attack us, you blow up THE WORLD. literally.

No one is stupid enough, not even china with it's massive ass army, to piss off the one country where the idea unification of races and cultures is attempted.

Ah yes, the old MAD concept (Mutually Assured Destruction).  That worked pretty well on the old Soviet Union.  After all, they wanted to survive their Cold War with America, and be around afterward to reap the benefits.

Problem is, MAD doesnít work every well on a group of people who WANT to die, who see death as an honor if obtained in their holy war.  From their standpoint, destruction is inevitable anyway, and the goals becomes simply to kill as many infidels as possible , so when the final destruction does come, they get to chill in Paradise while we all burn in hell.

You know what?  Iíve had with all the major religions.  Paganism.  Judaism.  Christianity.  Islam.  What have then done for anyone other than get a bunch of people killed?  Time to give a new faith dominion over Earth.  Maybe they'll get it right.  How about Buddhism?  They wouldnít hurt a fly.  Literally.

I refuse to listen to any religion. I'm an atheist, and it's gonna stay that way. I see it as a choice of 'have total freedom, with no-one telling me what to do', or 'join a religion, and be killed for your beliefs'.

I just don't get how people can trust religion after everything it's caused.

grey_the_angel

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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2006, 04:50:08 pm »
athesis, from what I've learned over the years, tend to be the first ones to brake back into a religion when something goes bad and point out the religion as fault.

I keep an idea of faith rather then a prospective religion.

Burning Zeppelin

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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2006, 11:11:18 pm »
Pfft, what's so bad about hurting flies. Survival of the fittest, I say :P

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2006, 12:50:20 am »
athesis, from what I've learned over the years, tend to be the first ones to brake back into a religion when something goes bad and point out the religion as fault.

And you may support that bogus claim at your convenience...


You know what?  Iíve had it with all the major religions.  Paganism.  Judaism.  Christianity.  Islam.  What have then done for anyone other than get a bunch of people killed?  Time to give a new faith dominion over Earth.  Maybe they'll get it right.

Nurse: Doctor, we haven't been able to cure the patient's cold. We tried shooting him with five different kinds of gun...and none of 'em worked. In fact, you might even say he's a bit worse off for all the bleeding and organ trauma.

Doctor: Hmm, maybe if we used another gun...
« Last Edit: August 26, 2006, 12:52:16 am by Lord J esq »

grey_the_angel

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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2006, 01:10:33 am »
athesis, from what I've learned over the years, tend to be the first ones to brake back into a religion when something goes bad and point out the religion as fault.

And you may support that bogus claim at your convenience...


You know what?  Iíve had it with all the major religions.  Paganism.  Judaism.  Christianity.  Islam.  What have then done for anyone other than get a bunch of people killed?  Time to give a new faith dominion over Earth.  Maybe they'll get it right.

Nurse: Doctor, we haven't been able to cure the patient's cold. We tried shooting him with five different kinds of gun...and none of 'em worked. In fact, you might even say he's a bit worse off for all the bleeding and organ trauma.

Doctor: Hmm, maybe if we used another gun...
you can't support what people don't study. but the next time you hang out with atheists, bring up a small religious discussion, then bring a counter to point out the number of times he'll point out the absense of god.

its basically instinctual to have a faith. people have to believe into something. its be that way since before recorded history when we had sun gods and stuff.

atheist will find any way to try and make their claim, but in the end it sound more like a desperate attempt to have someone assure them of some belief then trying to prove there is no god.

that's why I said "keep an idea of faith, but not a religion." believe in something, but don't don't believe in a hive mind idea.

call it a boogus claim all you want, but its basically proven itself.

Lena Andreia

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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2006, 01:38:05 am »
Quote
Doesn't sound too nice. I thought America was the place of hope, of dreams. Where people hurt by a nation can come and seek refuge, and begin a new life.

Wish it were still that way. Those of us who are unlucky enough to live here these days (though I'll be moving to England most likely in the next year or so) are living in Neo-Rome. The rich don't pay taxes, the poor can't, and the middle class is shrinking. Without a middle class to support it (since the middle class historically are the ones who pay for everything, since the richies can avoid it), it's only a matter of time before some crazy barbarians come marching in from somewhere and mow over us. Of course, like it was mentioned earlier, I'm pretty sure Dubbya and his cronies would be sure to fire off all of our world destroying missiles first.

I agree with the view on religion--though--I wish everyone would just cool it. Sure, it's great in times of crisis, but it's not really that great a thing if half the time it CAUSES the crisis (Hell, half the reason Dubbya is back in office is because of the damned abortion thing. That's a GREAT reason to elect a leader. Let's tell everyone what to do with their bodies. Personally, I wouldn't abort, but I've got no business telling someone else not to abort.)   

I totally love how he's gotten away with so much crap too. ...bastard. I can't wait for history to look back on him. History has a great way of uncovering villains.

This is my current favorite Bush clip: http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/08/21/bush-says-iraq-had-%e2%80%98nothing%e2%80%99-to-do-with-911/#more-9744

Please, future generations. Please. Uncover the truth.

~~Ending rant~~

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2006, 01:51:11 am »
its basically instinctual to have a faith. people have to believe into something. its be that way since before recorded history when we had sun gods and stuff.

Uh huh. And that, my friend, is why reason trumps emotion. The human mind and the civilization it has built are no longer so weak that generations of people must live in a superstitious world of make-believe comforts and faith-based delusions. Many people still do live like that, but humanity itself has achieved a higher state of being.

atheist will find any way to try and make their claim, but in the end it sound more like a desperate attempt to have someone assure them of some belief then trying to prove there is no god.

I just want to point out, for anybody who bothers to read this, how utterly awful your reasoning is. I won't even bother with a rebuttal...your little quote there speaks for itself.

call it a boogus claim all you want, but its basically proven itself.

Boogus claim! Boogus!

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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2006, 02:06:43 am »
you can't support what people don't study.

Um...

So you're saying you can't support your stance that Atheists are flakes, but you're willing to make that stance and drum up controversy anyway? Nice way to make friends here, grey.

but the next time you hang out with atheists, bring up a small religious discussion, then bring a counter to point out the number of times he'll point out the absense of god.

Perhaps he or she is mentioning the absense of a god because it's a religious discussion and therefore they have the right to air their beliefs on the subject? What else would he point out, the number of french fries in a regular order at McDonald's? Atheism, in case you weren't aware, has every right to be named as a religious philosophy right beside Hinduism, Judaism, and every other system of beliefs. It's a philosophy that believes in the complete absence of outside influence on our lives by a greater being. Sure, there might not be a god, but if you're going to classify religions as requiring gods to worship, you might as well knock Deism out of the running as well, since its god is an inactive participant in the lives of its believers. Simply put, their faith is to not give up control of their lives to a higher being. It's not god-dependant, but it's still faith.

its basically instinctual to have a faith. people have to believe into something. its be that way since before recorded history when we had sun gods and stuff.

Hell, my "instinctual" faith, as you refer to it, is the fervent belief in myself. Guess that would make me a god under your definition of religion. No arguments here, I've known that for years; but I digress. (Donations of 10% of your weekly income, however, are appreciated and very much mandatory. Hey, I can always play enough D&D until I dig up a +10 Staff of Smiting.) Yes, mankind does seek out something to put their very essence of devotion into, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a higher power -- I'm living proof.

atheist will find any way to try and make their claim, but in the end it sound more like a desperate attempt to have someone assure them of some belief then trying to prove there is no god.

Have you ever even talked to an Atheist? I went out with one for two years, and I can assure you, he wasn't "desperate" for much of anything. Hell, he's probably the most dignified and intelligent person in the known world, simply because he does everything for himself without having to feel obligated towards any diety for whatever "god-given talents" randomly dished into his DNA. I couldn't imagine him -- or any other Atheist, for that matter -- fighting so hard for an identity through religion that they would have to resort to petty debates to find their niche in an overwhelmingly religious society. In fact, it's usually the god-fearing person who enters into a debate with the Atheist, struggling to prove that there is, in fact, reason in their willingness to proclaim their inferiority as human beings to a higher power which has never been proven through anything but pure, blind faith to exist. Hell, I don't even consider myself Atheist yet I've been dragged into more of those arguments than I care to think about right now.

that's why I said "keep an idea of faith, but not a religion." believe in something, but don't don't believe in a hive mind idea.

Okay, so your generalization of all Atheists as conformists struggling to find self-identity through religion isn't a "hive mind idea"? Unlike your "worth" and "security" terms (which are synonymous in today's global economy anyway, but I'll save that for another rantfest in another thread), I do comprehend the difference between "religion" and "faith," something you are sorely missing out on. Religion is a form of faith, but it certainly isn't the only one. Yet you keep insisting that Atheists have no faith, just because they have no religion. You're kinda contradicting yourself there.

call it a boogus claim all you want, but its basically proven itself.

Maybe in your logic it's proven itself, but if you have to add a postscript to this that says "Call it a bogus claim all you want," you're obviously not expecting anybody else to agree with what little proof you've offered.

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2006, 02:22:51 am »
*smackdown*

Well done. It heartens me when other people take the time and trouble to debunk the absurd. One of my biggest motivations to write long posts discrediting that sort of rubbish is that if I don't do it, it usually doesn't get done. But now with the admins and some of the newcomers taking a greater role, I can finally step back and be more of a guide to conversation than a workhorse. That's neato!

Magus068

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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2006, 03:03:12 am »
Sometimes education doesn't work always because there are people who poisoned the minds of the people & mislead them to join their cause. Some of those people are extremist who recruits more people to do their evil bidding.

Burning Zeppelin

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« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2006, 03:26:17 am »
Most of my friends are atheists. However, most of those know nothing about any religion, and just call themselves atheists, because they are conformists. A better name for them would probably be agnostics, but again, they don't know shit.

Quote
Doesn't sound too nice. I thought America was the place of hope, of dreams. Where people hurt by a nation can come and seek refuge, and begin a new life.

Wish it were still that way. Those of us who are unlucky enough to live here these days (though I'll be moving to England most likely in the next year or so) are living in Neo-Rome. The rich don't pay taxes, the poor can't, and the middle class is shrinking. Without a middle class to support it (since the middle class historically are the ones who pay for everything, since the richies can avoid it), it's only a matter of time before some crazy barbarians come marching in from somewhere and mow over us. Of course, like it was mentioned earlier, I'm pretty sure Dubbya and his cronies would be sure to fire off all of our world destroying missiles first.

I agree with the view on religion--though--I wish everyone would just cool it. Sure, it's great in times of crisis, but it's not really that great a thing if half the time it CAUSES the crisis (Hell, half the reason Dubbya is back in office is because of the damned abortion thing. That's a GREAT reason to elect a leader. Let's tell everyone what to do with their bodies. Personally, I wouldn't abort, but I've got no business telling someone else not to abort.)   

I totally love how he's gotten away with so much crap too. ...bastard. I can't wait for history to look back on him. History has a great way of uncovering villains.

This is my current favorite Bush clip: http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/08/21/bush-says-iraq-had-%e2%80%98nothing%e2%80%99-to-do-with-911/#more-9744

Please, future generations. Please. Uncover the truth.

~~Ending rant~~

You think it's bad in America? In Australia, a land constantly made out to be the land of salvation, since it is so close to many countries caught up in Civil War/Political Tension, asylum laws are incredibly harsh! Maybe this should be in another thread, and this is pretty offtopic, but as usual, I don't care.

Most of the world's refugees are from the Middle East:


Well, what nationality of people does Australia usually accept?:


Phillip Ruddock sez "The increase in unauthorised boat arrivals to Australia in recent months has placed great pressure on the capacity of Australia to assist with resettlement of people in need overseas."

BUT...

Courtesy of Illywhacker.net (which most of this info is coming; god bless you Andrew Solomon!):


Take that Mr Phillip Ru-dick! (had to be done, sorry) Of course, that is 2000. It get's worse though.

Many people aren't taken into Australia when they arrive. What happens is that they are detained on island detention centres, such as Naruu or Christmas Island. I think women and children aren't detained anymore, but they were before just recently. 9 Afghani people that seeked asylum were repatriated after 16 months back to Afghanistan, because they weren't thought to be true refugees, or that the risk wasn't real, even though they refugees said that them or their families would be killed on return. Well, that is what happened. They were either arrested, killed, or had their families killed. One Afghani's house was bombed by a grenade after four months of being there, and his two young children were killed. From the Sydney Morning Herald:

""My children died so that John Howard could win an election," Abdul is quoted as telling the Edmund Rice Centre, which has spent the past three years interviewing more than 80 rejected asylum seekers in 18 countries. It has released its findings to coincide with the Government's migration bill, which has divided the Coalition. The bill would ensure all asylum seekers landing on the mainland were processed offshore, out of reach of Australia's legal system.

Abdul, 31, whose surname cannot be released because he fears for his safety, now lives illegally in Pakistan. He told the researchers: "We got caught up in Australian politics. It was easy for the Australian Government after September 11 to say that the people fleeing from the Taliban were the Taliban.""

Well, that's my rant. Too bad there won't be much discussion, because there aren't many Australians here, and definetely none that support the Liberals.

Rat

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« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2006, 04:47:27 am »

its basically instinctual to have a faith. people have to believe into something. its be that way since before recorded history when we had sun gods and stuff.

Actually, most early religions seem to come about from people trying to explain things that occured in nature - notice how sun gods always have the duty of taking the sun across the sky, making sure it rose, making sure it set. Maybe they felt afterwards that they should be thankful for that,  or even afraid of the sun disappearing or failing to rise or fall or shine (I imagine eclipses helped spread that idea a bit), which most likely led to the worship aspect, rather than any supposed "instinct."

...Just randomly posting my two cents.

grey_the_angel

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« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2006, 05:57:33 am »

its basically instinctual to have a faith. people have to believe into something. its be that way since before recorded history when we had sun gods and stuff.

Actually, most early religions seem to come about from people trying to explain things that occured in nature - notice how sun gods always have the duty of taking the sun across the sky, making sure it rose, making sure it set. Maybe they felt afterwards that they should be thankful for that,  or even afraid of the sun disappearing or failing to rise or fall or shine (I imagine eclipses helped spread that idea a bit), which most likely led to the worship aspect, rather than any supposed "instinct."

...Just randomly posting my two cents.

actually, the earliest religions believed in the mother goddess that created the rest of the god. The most well know being mother gaia & chaos (darkness if you an idiot.)

but hell, I only took mythology in collage and had to study this. what would I know?

two the other two posts calling me absurb: I wasn't saying keep the discussion, just remind him of it, and he'll get around back to it later randonly.

It almost always occur. At some point, they curse/denounce a religous figure randomly.

also, Those without faith have, in study, been shown to have a worse luck then those who do.

infact, a recent study (look what I can magically pull out of my absurbness!) shows that people wanting to get pregant had 50% higher sucess rate with prayer then those without.

Those who recieved pray while ill had a higher recovery rate, as well.

But hey, its only a medical journal, it's all gotta be boogus shit I'm making up, right?
http://home.att.net/~stpaulparkucc/id47.htm
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/cardiac.html
http://www.mercola.com/article/prayer/dossey.htm
http://www.sptimes.com/News/040101/TampaBay/Prayer_makes_medical_.shtml
http://library.cqpress.com/cqresearcher/ppv.php?id=cqresrre2005011400
http://www.spiritualdisciplines.org/medstudy.html
http://www.ishpssb.org/ocs/viewpaper.php?id=53&print=1
Athiest also have higher death rates, by the way.

There also more likely to do drugs, develop alcoholism, and get arrested.

I mean... there's no way a prayer could actually cause somesort of healing. no way having a belief in a god, that having a prespection of idea of faith could possibly help anybody.

Sure. I've gotta be.

Burning Zeppelin

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« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2006, 06:40:46 am »
We really need a totally objective, 3rd party, neutral way to look at things. Those sites probably don't fit that. There are probably countless studies that prove it wrong.

Not that I don't believe in it, but I doubt it could be shown with survey's and studies.

grey_the_angel

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« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2006, 07:01:24 am »
We really need a totally objective, 3rd party, neutral way to look at things. Those sites probably don't fit that. There are probably countless studies that prove it wrong.

Not that I don't believe in it, but I doubt it could be shown with survey's and studies.
those sites were quoting an article from THE NEWYORK TIMES, and one was from another news site. if their not 3rd party, then god damn.

also, all of my sources can be backed up a simple trip to the book story. pick up a magazine called "the skeptic." and equal religious endevor, and it also covers this idea, along with the birth rate I mentioned.

but you know: its just me, making up absurdities.