Masa, Mune, Turnip

[ZeaLitY]

Masa and Mune come from Melchior's dreams. They're the physical manifestation of his dreams I guess. It says somewhere in the game that the sleeping dragoon in Viper Manor is dreaming of Turnip, and that is why Turnip exists. So I guess that means Turnip is the physical manifestation of that dragoon's dreams. Does that mean Turnip is related to Masa and Mune? If not then why does Turnip exist at all?

Then ensued a debate over whether Masa and Mune are the literal manifestations of Melchior's dreams. I say because they're unique creatures and it is directly stated that they embody his dreams, they are probably literal in that sense.

Here's the juice:

Zzzz... Zzzz...

I know-eth this man.

This view!

This is the same place that show-eth up in mine dream!

In that dream, I actually live-eth another life as this soldier!

I hope I don't disappear-eth when this man wake-eth up.

[chronotriggerfreak]

Who says Turnip is the only case of a creature spawning from one's dreams in Cross? Perhaps all the creatures roaming El Nido (or at least a good deal of them) are really just people's dreams. We could never know, and the suspense would just kill us.

Then there's Doreen, who seems to be the sibling of Masa and Mune; I think this is merely suggesting that Doreen is also the product of a dream. This line of thought opens up a whole new line of questions about the Chronoverse, and brings into light just how important dreams may be.

[Symmetry]

Argh.

I'm sure everyone has said or thought this at some point, but I really hate the horde of characters introduced in CC.

Personally, I would like to explain this one as being an easy way to introduce/tie-in another near-pointless character - similiarly to that alien you can get after taking something out of his UFO. (However that character joined your party. I forget.) That just doesn't seem to fit with the universe CT was looking to create. I dunno, maybe that's just me.

From reading the quote you've provided, it doesn't necessarily state Turnip came into being as a result of the Dragoon's dream. It looks as if you could easily infer that - but what sort of character was Turnip? I forget. Perhaps this is just Turnip being overly philosophical, I dunno.

I definately took Masa & Mune as literal manifestations of Melchior's dreams. Given the power of Dreamstone/Lavos, creating a weapon with a "conscience" or a "soul" doesn't seem to be beyond what's reasonable.

[Akuma]

I still don't think we can 100% say, Masa and Mune are literal physical forms of Melchior's dreams. As in his dreams when he is sleeping.

It's possible it could be the kind of dream like when a little boy says he dreams of becoming a baseball player when he's older.

Anyways, Melchior had this dream sword, and these 2 guys could fulfill it. That's possibly what they could be. I'm just stating possibilities, I'm not trying to start an argument.

[ZeaLitY]

Yes, I'm wondering if Doreen would necessarily be his dream as well, since she is related to Masa and Mune. It seems that in Turnip's case, he would disappear when the Acacia Dragoon awoke; however, Mastermune are constant beings -- though they can perform ludicrously special things, such as taking the form of a sword and enabling time travel (or passage to one's mind).

[Chrono'99]

Maybe they are just some kind of Bodisattvas/Buddhas (beings who achieved a higher state of existence). They come from Zeal, where philosophy and meditation is very developped, and they seem to be immortal.

Doreen has this very Buddhist-like speech :

[Doreen]
   This is the eternal kingdom of Zeal,
   where dreams can come true.

   But at what price?

   Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man...

   Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate
   of sashimi?
   Never assume that what you see and
   feel is real!

   I'm Doreen.
   Seek the hidden path, and open the
   doors of knowledge, each in turn.

and Masa and Mune acts as if they are higher than humans :

MUNE: Humans are so...silly!
   It's how you USE the sword that's
   important...not who owns it!

MASA: You can't even understand
   something as simple as that.
   That's why you're human.

They don't seem to involve themselves much in human affairs too, besides for their only purpose (destroying the Mammon Machine, killing Magus, killing Lavos). Masa and Mune helped Serge to wake Kid from her dream, but they weren't that enthusiastic about that. Beside their bit of selfishness, they act as if they haven't the right to interfer into human stuff :

Masa: I wonder what happened? Do you think we should help her?
Mune: Nah, it's not our job.
Masa: Yeah, I guess so. It's probably out of our league, anyway.
[...]
Doreen: We're going to lend you our powers for a little bit.
Mune: We're sending you back to the past where the princess is bound.
Masa: We only have 1 chance.

hmm, you know, it makes me think about Stargate SG-1...

[Radical_Dreamer]

It's also very possible that the soldier is the result of Turnip's dream given those quotes.

I'd say Masa, Mune, and Doreen are all representations of Melechoir's dreams...That they were born from his dreams, but do not literally consist of his dreams. If they did, how could they exist in 600 A.D., when he was not around to be dreaming?

[V_Translanka]

Although I'm not particularly for the literal sense of Masa&Mune being his dreams, I believe that the person dreaming does not have to be present after the dreams manifest themselves.

Although, like I said, I don't believe they're literally Melchior's dreams. Did we ever get a re-translation on that quote of theirs? I believe that with Masa&Mune, they could fulfill Melchior's dreams, and in that sense they ARE his dreams come true.

Maybe they really are just bowling balls? Hmmm?

[Arcane]

Had a discussion with Zeality a while back... This is a little off for this topic, but couldn't Crono perhaps be the Planet's dreams? I mean, he has little free will... Except in cutscenes, he's completely controlled, silent, and obedient... (I know, just a game. So sue me.)

[V_Translanka]

I think it's safe to say he has little free will BECAUSE of the Planet/Entity, but not that he either is a physical manifestation. I mean, he's got a mom, right? Although...I suppose the Planet/Entity could be his father under those supositions???

Mostly he's there so you can make choices in the game...Although most choices you can't work against...There are some you can. Like when Marle comes back from the DBT (or where-ever it was) for instance.

[Radical_Dreamer]

Somewhere else on the forum (not sure the thread, sorry) someone gives the text from the Chrono Cross lighter. It mentions the Planet's dream defeating Lavos. It's possible Crono is that dream, it would lend even more credibility to the Crono as a literary Christlike figure Xathael had made when he still ran the Chrono Trigger Testament.

[V_Translanka]

The planet/Entity's dream was the defeat of Lavos. Crono was just the means to an end. Whether or not he was created for that sole purpose remains to be seen...It doesn't sound all that plausible though...Lucca & him are friends beforehand. I could think this if Crono suddenly showed up out of nowhere somewhere along the lines of the Millenial Fair, where the planet/Entity seems to step in...but...I just don't see that connection.

[Radical_Dreamer]

If Crono died in the fall of Guardia, then that makes it more probable that the be all and end all of his existence was the fight against Lavos. Having accomplished that goal, his purpose to the Planet was over, and his life was no longer of any particular consequence. If he died, I think it makes it more liable that the Planet "made" him to defeat Lavos. After all, there is absolutely no mention of Crono even having a father.

[Akuma]

Yeah so he just was made out of dust in the wind. Of course he had a father, but even if he did, he's of no importance.

Also where in the game does it say Crono is the entity's dream? Please use words like "probably" and "hypothetically" please.

[Swordmaster]

Yeah so he just was made out of dust in the wind. Of course he had a father, but even if he did, he's of no importance.

Also where in the game does it say Crono is the entity's dream? Please use words like "probably" and "hypothetically" please.

I have a point on the Crono origins.
We dont know whos is his father but Crono fight style have too much in common with some of the Mystics like Slash, Free Lancers and others.