Author Topic: Guardian blood-line.  (Read 1814 times)

Discoman

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« on: January 03, 2006, 07:23:45 pm »
At the end of CT, Marle states that Alya is her distant ancestor
Quote
You're my distant ancestor.
   So you'd better have tough kids or I'll
   be in trouble!


 Well the odd thing is.... what happend to her blood line during 12000 B.C? She can't be related to Magus or Schala considering they never had a family. Is this a plot hole or something? Sorry if this has been discussed before.

Eggith Cyrene

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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2006, 07:48:35 pm »
MArle IS a decendent of ayla. The zeal and guardia lines are seperate. Her ancestor in 12,000 bc was the elder of earthbound village. Schala's pendent gets passed down thru the guardia line to marle.

Salvadeiro

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« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2006, 09:23:20 pm »
Thats odd.  So what happened was from Ayla's line, it went down until Zeal's line where they came in and ruled. Ayla's people we're obviously Earthbounds, right?  The Elder of the village obtained Schala's stuff after the destruction and it passed down to the Guardia line.  Correct?

Zaperking

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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2006, 11:56:18 pm »
No, it's not obvious.
There is no proof that the elder of Algetty is related to her. It can be anyone, even some irrelevant person.
The simple fact is that in the original timeline, Schala's pendant was lost.. The pendant itself may have only been found prior to 1000AD. It doens't mean that it was passed down in the family. As we know, Leene only had a coral hair pin. That should have been passed down, and there was no mention of a necklase anyway.

As for Ayla, over 65,000,000 years, the family tree would have enlargened by 100 fold. Crono and Marle are probably related when it goes back to Ayla. But then again, that applies to any other people of the Ioka tribe.
It's just implied that the Lubarians were the ones who touched the flame, and were enlightened, and that power was passed down in the Enlightened people.
But that would mean, as I said, that there was interbreeding, otherwise Crono and Marle would have nothing to unlock.
That is unless all Earthbound ones can do magic, but couldn't naturally have it unlocked.

If the Earthbound ones did not touch the flame, then they would not be as evolved, they'd be talking like Ayla. They don't, so that shows that even they had ancestors who touched the flame, but themselves did not naturally have it unlocked. Schala was probably born with the power already awaken, probably because the Zealian family is more purer in that power, if they were the original ones to touch the flame and such.

Sentenal

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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2006, 12:17:22 am »
Why does everyone have to believe there is some bloodline connection for every single era?  There is NO proof that either the Mayor of the Earthbounds, or the Zeal Royal family, are related to Guardia.  They could very well be some random guy in 12000bc.

Lucca gather all of Guardia's relatives that you met at the end of CT.  And since no one from 12000bc was there, you apparently didn't meet their ansestors of 12000bc.

Ruling families don't usally last very long, maybe a few hundred years most of time.  But thinking that someone related to Guardia was a ruler in every single time period you go to is crazy.  Thats over 65 million years of the same ruling house being in power.

Tonjevic

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« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2006, 03:02:10 am »
Maybe marle DOES come from the earthbounds, but after the fall of Zeal there was interbreeding between Zealians and Earthbounds. The pendant could have entered the family like this, and there WAS no connection to Zeal before that.

Chrono'99

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« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2006, 05:22:07 am »
Quote from: Sentenal
Lucca gather all of Guardia's relatives that you met at the end of CT.  And since no one from 12000bc was there, you apparently didn't meet their ansestors of 12000bc.

Assuming you crashed the Epoch into Lavos, Lucca would have to bring the relatives via the existing Time Gates. But since the Last Village from 12,000BC isn't accessible by Gate, she couldn't bring anyone from 12,000BC (after the Fall of Zeal, the Gate for that era leads to an empty island). Note that she also doesn't bring the Arris Director from 1,999AD, which could mean that she couldn't reach there either (there's no Gate except for the bucket, which might have disappeared).

Zaperking

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« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2006, 06:48:05 am »
Quote from: Chrono'99
Quote from: Sentenal
Lucca gather all of Guardia's relatives that you met at the end of CT.  And since no one from 12000bc was there, you apparently didn't meet their ansestors of 12000bc.

Assuming you crashed the Epoch into Lavos, Lucca would have to bring the relatives via the existing Time Gates. But since the Last Village from 12,000BC isn't accessible by Gate, she couldn't bring anyone from 12,000BC (after the Fall of Zeal, the Gate for that era leads to an empty island). Note that she also doesn't bring the Arris Director from 1,999AD, which could mean that she couldn't reach there either (there's no Gate except for the bucket, which might have disappeared).


Or that there was no apocalypse, hence it couldn't be done really. Like the gate dissapeared, meaning that it was triggered by Lavos or the entity had no need for it since it dissapeared from it's dream.

Also, Don't be silly with the Marle/Guardia timeline thing. Not everyone has to relate to her. It's just a motif, that when you time travel, you may meet an ansestor without knowing it.

Also, The pendant could not have been passed down without Schala losing it. Since there is no energy left in it, it could have possibly washed up after the ocean palace was destroyed in the original timeline. Here, Schala could have reincarnated herself with the flame.

If not, the pendant's power was still used up (except for a bit), was then found by a person. We do not know when. There is nothing that shows that the pendant was passed down. For all we know, it was found prior to 1000AD, and was given as Marle as a birthday present.

fxar99

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« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2006, 09:03:40 am »
Quote from: Chrono'99
Quote from: Sentenal
Lucca gather all of Guardia's relatives that you met at the end of CT.  And since no one from 12000bc was there, you apparently didn't meet their ansestors of 12000bc.

Assuming you crashed the Epoch into Lavos, Lucca would have to bring the relatives via the existing Time Gates. But since the Last Village from 12,000BC isn't accessible by Gate, she couldn't bring anyone from 12,000BC (after the Fall of Zeal, the Gate for that era leads to an empty island). Note that she also doesn't bring the Arris Director from 1,999AD, which could mean that she couldn't reach there either (there's no Gate except for the bucket, which might have disappeared).


I assume you mean that the Epoch isn't operational after crashing into Lavos... But that's wrong, we see the Epoch in the ending, flying and travelling through time. Lucca or Marle says it clearly "We still have the Epoch!". So, Lucca COULD bring Marle's relatives but probably nobody of them was in 12000BC. Or she brought only special people who met (like Doan, not a survivor without name). But after Zeal fell, all those 'special' people (Schala, Janus, etc) were lost.

Quote from: Zaperking
Not everyone has to relate to her. It's just a motif, that when you time travel, you may meet an ansestor without knowing it.

I totally agree with this.

Chrono'99

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« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2006, 09:05:41 am »
Quote from: fxar99
Quote from: Chrono'99
Quote from: Sentenal
Lucca gather all of Guardia's relatives that you met at the end of CT.  And since no one from 12000bc was there, you apparently didn't meet their ansestors of 12000bc.

Assuming you crashed the Epoch into Lavos, Lucca would have to bring the relatives via the existing Time Gates. But since the Last Village from 12,000BC isn't accessible by Gate, she couldn't bring anyone from 12,000BC (after the Fall of Zeal, the Gate for that era leads to an empty island). Note that she also doesn't bring the Arris Director from 1,999AD, which could mean that she couldn't reach there either (there's no Gate except for the bucket, which might have disappeared).


I assume you mean that the Epoch isn't operational after crashing into Lavos... But that's wrong, we see the Epoch in the ending, flying and travelling through time. Lucca or Marle says it clearly "We still have the Epoch!". So, Lucca COULD bring Marle's relatives but probably nobody of them was in 12000BC. Or she brought only special people who met (like Doan, not a survivor without name). But after Zeal fell, all those 'special' people (Schala, Janus, etc) were lost.

You're speaking about the ending in which you didn't crash the Epoch. If you crashed the Epoch, you get the Epoch-less ending...

Sentenal

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« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2006, 12:33:47 pm »
Quote from: Chrono'99
Quote from: Sentenal
Lucca gather all of Guardia's relatives that you met at the end of CT.  And since no one from 12000bc was there, you apparently didn't meet their ansestors of 12000bc.

Assuming you crashed the Epoch into Lavos, Lucca would have to bring the relatives via the existing Time Gates. But since the Last Village from 12,000BC isn't accessible by Gate, she couldn't bring anyone from 12,000BC (after the Fall of Zeal, the Gate for that era leads to an empty island). Note that she also doesn't bring the Arris Director from 1,999AD, which could mean that she couldn't reach there either (there's no Gate except for the bucket, which might have disappeared).

The thing is, you don't have to crash the epoch into Lavos.  And yet there its still the same ending regardless.

And you never met the Arris Director, therefore she didn't bring him back.

ms0019

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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2006, 02:09:06 pm »
Quote
You're my distant ancestor.
So you'd better have tough kids or I'll
be in trouble!


I'm sorry as I may be missing something obvious, but what in the game indicates to Marle/Nadia that Ayla is her ancestor?  Is she just saying that with no indication of it being true, or does she have good reason to think that Ayla in fact IS her distant ancestor?  Couldn't it just as well have been anybody at all in 65000000BC?

I always thought she said that because it was assumed that pretty much whoever owned had the dreamstone in a time period was in some way related to Nadia.

Sentenal

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« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2006, 02:15:25 pm »
Its strongly implied.  Kino was brought to 1000ad as one of Marle's ansestors, and its assumed Ayla and Kino got together.

Chrono'99

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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2006, 02:26:49 pm »
It's never explained how Lucca even knows about the relation between Kino and Marle though (it's surely not written in history books)...

ChronoMagus

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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2006, 04:09:50 pm »
Well there is the blonde hair, and the personality of Ayla... but no not directly.. then again seeing as the population in 65,000,000 BC is practically squat the odds of them being related is high.