Creation of the Masamune

[Zaperking]

The Sealed Boxes were most likely found by people, and since they could not open them, they kept them as heirlooms.

[fxar99]

The Sealed Boxes were most likely found by people, and since they could not open them, they kept them as heirlooms.

Yes, but they had to land before the people took them.

[Naz]

The Sealed Boxes were most likely found by people, and since they could not open them, they kept them as heirlooms.

Yes, but they had to land before the people took them.

It's more likely that they were in the ocean for a few centuries.

[ShoeMagus]

Yes the geography wasn't exactly stationary from 12000 B.C. - 600 A.D. I can imagine that perhaps Denadoro was underwater as well.

[Chrono'99]

I still think that the Masamune was used by many heroes between 12,000BC and 600AD. Or at least one person before Cyrus. No one in Zeal knew anything about the Masamune or the Red Knife (heck the Masamune was precisely created when Zeal was destroyed...), but by 600AD the sword has become a legend. So it must have been discovered at some point between the 2 eras.

[kennyj2003]

I agree, for people to call it the legendary masamune or even know its exact location point to the idea of it being used by many heroes before Frog claimed it.

[kennyj2003]

right... i read all topic...  It is that dreamstone is lavos's weakness to drained all the energy with seals, magus and schala, anyone use lavos's linked with magics...

i see magus's magic is trained sign to absorb lavos then Magus appear to put wrath absorb to lavos for all more energy to put crono's death instant...

dreamstone <-- Drain Energy <-- lavos get upset.

magus use wrath magic ---> Drain Energy ---> lavos is ready to go.

  I was lost at "i read all topic". Could you be a bit more clear?

[ShoeMagus]

I still don't see why it just has to be Lavos's energy that charged the Red Knife into the Masamune (along with the whole "Connection with Lavos" that supposedly corrupts it).

I am willing to be that that Masamune in the original timeline was built exactly as it should have been and that Melechior had thrust it in himself. No alteration occured because of the fact that the sword was completed and that Masa and Mune were safely inside, safeguarding it.

So why does the Red Knife change? Well first we know that Masa and Mune WEREN"T in it as we see them in the Ocean Palace before hand. They enter when it turns into the completed sword. Also there's the fact that Lavos's very presence has a habit of altering time and space. The completed sword though is an object which can all be used to play with time (as shown when Serge travels back to save kid) suggesting an immunity to Lavos's tampering. Of course just an idea now, but seriously here. Why Lavos need be involved?

As for its corruption? The Fall of Guardia, the fact that it was stolen, and the resulting chaos (possible massacre of people). Its called the "Blood Stained" Sword of Evil so obviously it has a bloody history. Naturally that alone could have turned it evil, which would go with the motif and lesson of the sword. That what you do has consequences.

[Zaperking]

Gawd, people. The Masamune was not corrupted by Lavos. Lavos energy = the planets energy. It's being near Lavos for exposed amount of times, like being mentally connected with him, that is what has been shown countless times to corrupt people. Eg - Schala, Zeal, Dragon God (possibly because it seems that only their energy was absorbed, breaking them up).

[Radical_Dreamer]

Lavos' energy is clearly distinct from that of the planet. Thus the switch in Zeal from the Sun Stone to the Mammon Machine as the source of power.

[Chrono'99]

There would have been no corruption in the human evolution if Lavos' energy was the same as the planet's.

[AuraTwilight]

Even still, if Lavos was the one who corrupted the Masamune, it seems odd to be that it'd take 13000 something years, and then Masa and Mune just convienently fall asleep and let it go evil.

Hence why I'm going with my Tsukumogami Masamune theory.

[Zaperking]

Lavos' energy is clearly distinct from that of the planet. Thus the switch in Zeal from the Sun Stone to the Mammon Machine as the source of power.

No. The Sun stone is from the power of the sun. Hello, we had to god damn charge it for 65,000,000 years in a place where the sun never rested for it to recharge.
The energy that Lavos absorbs from the Planet is still his. He can use it for any purpose, just like the pendant can channal that energy for any use too. Energy can be converted. Energy doesn't contain "evil" or "good". The only mention of something like that was about Crono and co's aura of energy being weaker than what the Zealians possess and Magus' aura being sad and that he would oneday destroy everything that he loves in that state.

There would have been no corruption in the human evolution if Lavos' energy was the same as the planet's.

It wasn't about his energy. It was about the flame having the power by itself to enhance things. It changed their evolution by being a catalyst or something and letting them evolve faster. Or simply that their link with Lavos, speaking to him or w/e opened up their minds.

[AuraTwilight]

No. The Sun stone is from the power of the sun. Hello, we had to god damn charge it for 65,000,000 years in a place where the sun never rested for it to recharge.

The Sun Stone is referred to as "elemental power of this tired planet." And it recharges in a palace where there is sunshine even when the sun isn't even shining. The sun light is clearly magical and artificial.

The energy that Lavos absorbs from the Planet is still his. He can use it for any purpose, just like the pendant can channal that energy for any use too. Energy can be converted. Energy doesn't contain "evil" or "good".

Yes, but it can be Negative and Positive, and Lavos' energy has only shown Negative.

It wasn't about his energy. It was about the flame having the power by itself to enhance things. It changed their evolution by being a catalyst or something and letting them evolve faster. Or simply that their link with Lavos, speaking to him or w/e opened up their minds.

And how does the Frozen Flame work? Lavos' Energy.

[XcyrusX]

Quote~

I still think that the Masamune was used by many heroes between 12,000BC and 600AD. Or at         least one person before Cyrus. No one in Zeal knew anything about the Masamune or the Red Knife (heck the Masamune was precisely created when Zeal was destroyed...), but by 600AD the sword has become a legend. So it must have been discovered at some point between the 2 eras.

Yeah i too agree with this statment because Cyrus seaches for the Legendary Masamune but now im wondering...prob couldn't happen but..... what if a Mystic was one of the many righteous owners of the masamune? It might have had strength from within LOL!