Do You Believe in "God"?

[Sentenal]

So...it's our fault for being who God created us to be. And, therefore, we deserve the ills in the world around us. These are the cards we are dealt upon being born into this world as humans. But we don't have the authority to take responsibility for our nature and choose our own destiny. Instead, we have to pay obeisance to God for all eternity to have even the chance of a better existence.

Josh, you disappoint me in your knowledge of Christianity.  I suggest you read the story of the Garden of Eden in Genisis.  Specifically the fall from Eden.  Basically, disobediance brought this upon man.

The more you speak of Christianity, the more your knowledge of the religion betrays your claims of what it teachs.

[Radical_Dreamer]

So...it's our fault for being who God created us to be. And, therefore, we deserve the ills in the world around us. These are the cards we are dealt upon being born into this world as humans. But we don't have the authority to take responsibility for our nature and choose our own destiny. Instead, we have to pay obeisance to God for all eternity to have even the chance of a better existence.

Josh, you disappoint me in your knowledge of Christianity.  I suggest you read the story of the Garden of Eden in Genisis.  Specifically the fall from Eden.  Basically, disobediance brought this upon man.

The more you speak of Christianity, the more your knowledge of the religion betrays your claims of what it teachs.

That's the one where God demands our willful ignorance, and brings all manner of suffering into existance because we chose knowledge over ignorance, right?

[Sentenal]

Maybe you need to read it also to know what it says...

[Mystik3eb]

Here's the story of the Garden of Eden, according to my reckoning. This interpretation is open to correction, flaming, and applause.

God (and according to Mormonism, Jesus, along with our help, those of us who supported Christ's plan and fought against Satan [Lucifer] in the War in Heaven) created the different aspects of the universe, all physical things thereof. All animals, all of space, all the elements. After everything was complete, from the ashes rose Adam (whether he warped into being ala Star Trek, transformed out of the sand like Naruto, or was a result of a final stage of evolution from another fellow monkey, we don't know), the first human and the first living being of God's creations to have the spirit of one of his children. He tended to the Garden of Eden, provided happiness for all living things and kept harmony. But he was lonely, so "using one of his ribs", God created Eve, the first female (I actually heard in one of my seminary lessons that my teacher had heard from a scientific source that males have one fewer ribs than females; I've since heard that was a stupid claim and highly untrue), and the human race (all two of them) was at equality.

They lived in harmony, but they knew no happiness, for they knew no sadness. They knew nothing except what God told them. At this point, they communicated with God (because, according to Mormonism, Earth at this time was close to the star Kolob, God's home) directly. He gave them two rules: 1) reproduce and fill the earth with his children, and 2) never eat the fruit that would tell them how, teach them wrong and right, knowledge, the balance of differing...everything, etc. So basically he tricked them into disobeying him no matter what they did. Satan, not thinking it through, in the form of a serpent tempted Eve to eat the fruit. She did, got Adam to, and they both fled when God showed up because they were naked. God, in his judicial anger, cast them out of the Garden, made them mortal, and sent Earth away from Kolob into it's current location. The continents began shifting. Adam and Eve remained loyal to God and followed his commandments, and began having kids.

Ok.

I must say, I did laugh during J's God-Angel dialogue.

[Sentenal]

Thats the way mormons teach it?     Alright...

Basically, God created Man, and created all animals to please him.  He created Woman.  They living in paradice, without having any disease, pain, suffering, or sin.  They lived in harmony with God.  They were commanded that they could eat of anything in the Garden of than fruit of the Tree of Good and Evil.  Satan tempted Eve, who then tempted Adam, to eat the fruit, because according to Satan, God doesn't want them to eat it because it would make them like God.  They ate the fruit, and disobeyed God.  It was here that vice of man came into being, rather than peace and innocence.  Now that Man had sinned, man was now separated from God.  God is perfect, and now man had corrupted himself, and placed himself out of God's reach.  So they were forced to leave the Garden, and suffer mortality and damnation that they had brought upon themselves.  God however still cared about Man, and loved them so much that he eventually sent Jesus to die so that Man could reestablish the relationship that man had once severed.

[Mystik3eb]

The only difference I see, besides the additional information of the "before" the Mormons provide, is A) the fruit's purpose, and B) the "damnation" as a result of eating the fruit. They're mostly identical understandings aside from those differences.

[Sentenal]

I don't consider Satan being thrown out of Heaven to be the same story as Man getting thrown out of Eden.  Meh, I was unaware the Mormons did the same thing to the Old Testiment as what they did to the New Testiment.  And that God lives on the star Kelob .  And really, the fruit's pupose is the same, I just phrased it different.  No difference there.

[Mystik3eb]

I don't consider Satan being thrown out of Heaven to be the same story as Man getting thrown out of Eden.

That's why I said the "before" stuff was different. It's not part of the same story, I just referenced it in a rather unclear fashion. My mistake.

Meh, I was unaware the Mormons did the same thing to the Old Testiment as what they did to the New Testiment.

...what do you mean by "did"? Interpreted differently? The version of the bible the Mormons use is the King James version, and they haven't altered the actual text of that version. However the Pearl of Great Price contains much documentation the Mormons believe to have been taken out of the Old Testament, including specifics on the Garden of Eden story. You should read it, it's interesting.

And that God lives on the star Kelob .

...ok, so that was different too =p

[Sentenal]

...what do you mean by "did"? Interpreted differently? The version of the bible the Mormons use is the King James version, and they haven't altered the actual text of that version. However the Pearl of Great Price contains much documentation the Mormons believe to have been taken out of the Old Testament, including specifics on the Garden of Eden story. You should read it, it's interesting.

Where exactly in the NKJ Version does it say that God moved Earth away from the star Kelob?  In my experiance, I don't remmber that ever being said in the bible.

[Exodus]

However, we are not Adam and Eve, are we? Why even let us exist at all?

As Cartman once said:

"FUCK JESUS! I WANT MY PLATINUM ALBUM! GOD DAMMIT SON OF A BITCH!"

[Sentenal]

However, we are not Adam and Eve, are we? Why even let us exist at all?

As Cartman once said:

"FUCK JESUS! I WANT MY PLATINUM ALBUM! GOD DAMMIT SON OF A BITCH!"

No, but you carry their genes, if even remotely.

[Exodus]

So you're suggesting I be held responsible for something my great aunt Malany did?

[Sentenal]

Listen, this is a simple consept.

If you have a good relationship with the Father, then you go to heaven.  If not, you are unable, and the Father is unable to save you.  Humans initially started with a good relationship, but they damned themselves.  Going to hell isn't punishment being dealt out by God.  Its "punishment" that humans have brought on themselves.

And on another note, have you ever done one thing in your entire life that would be considered a sin?  If you don't believe in original sin, this works in the same way.

[Exodus]

Listen, this is a simple consept.

If you have a good relationship with the Father, then you go to heaven.  If not, you are unable, and the Father is unable to save you.  Humans initially started with a good relationship, but they damned themselves.  Going to hell isn't punishment being dealt out by God.  Its "punishment" that humans have brought on themselves.

And on another note, have you ever done one thing in your entire life that would be considered a sin?  If you don't believe in original sin, this works in the same way.

Humanity damned itself because of a poor choice by two people?

Super-duper forgiving God.

Simple concept my ass, really.

[Mystik3eb]

Where exactly in the NKJ Version does it say that God moved Earth away from the star Kelob?  In my experiance, I don't remmber that ever being said in the bible.

Mmk, I don't think that belief is actually in either the old testament OR the pearl of great price...I think that's later revelation given to one of the modern-day LDS prophets...*shrug* I'm unaware of the specifics on this one, or even the entire correctness on my part of the interpretation of this belief. It's not talked about almost ever, though, it's not part of the standard teachings. It's one of those things they get talking about when you go in-depth into the teachings.

So you're suggesting I be held responsible for something my great aunt Malany did?

I'm under the impression that typical Christians believe so, or at least that the answer is simple insomuch that we were born to imperfect beings, diminished under the eyes of God because of their act. The Mormons have the Articles of Faith, one of which states "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression", and the reason we are in the state we are is because we had to be, because Adam and Eve had to do what they did, or we would never be born.

Makes a lot of sense, huh? =p Actually it's not too confusing if you really study up on it and think about it, but...yeah.