Poll

Do You Believe in "God"?

Yes. I Believe in a Supernatural Entity(s).
21 (58.3%)
No. I Don't Believe in a Supernatural Entity(s).
7 (19.4%)
Maybe?
5 (13.9%)
No. Man is "God".
3 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 34

Voting closed: October 30, 2005, 08:44:48 pm

Author Topic: Do You Believe in "God"?  (Read 33651 times)

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #75 on: November 07, 2005, 03:05:57 am »
Quote from: Burning Zeppelin
Quote from: Radical_Dreamer
Take a look at one of those books. Humans are the children of God, ot so the belief goes.

No, as it goes we believe the past books were all corrupted and the whole text basically changed

Radical_Dreamer is right. That we are "Children of God" is an ancient Jewish belief which has survived into modern times, and was variously flirted with by Christianity and Islam over the generations as well.

CyberSarkany

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« Reply #76 on: November 07, 2005, 09:38:18 am »
My priest always says something like "You are all equal children of god, and u should treat each other as an equal".

Dain

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« Reply #77 on: November 07, 2005, 08:53:05 pm »
Quote from: GrayLensman
I only believe in things which have a rational basis.


Take a peak at Descartes' book of Meditations, especially the fifth Meditation (his ontological argument).  

Rationality doesn't necessarily exclude the possibility of there being a God (or higher being, or whatever).

GrayLensman

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« Reply #78 on: November 07, 2005, 09:18:35 pm »
Quote from: Dain
Quote from: GrayLensman
I only believe in things which have a rational basis.


Take a peak at Descartes' book of Meditations, especially the fifth Meditation (his ontological argument).  

Rationality doesn't necessarily exclude the possibility of there being a God (or higher being, or whatever).


Perhaps I should have said: I only believe in things which have a scientific basis, or I'll believe it when I see it.

Burning Zeppelin

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« Reply #79 on: November 08, 2005, 08:18:30 am »
Of course God has not scientific basis, it transcends time and space!

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #80 on: November 08, 2005, 08:50:29 am »
Consider this:

Religious doctrines the world over, faced with the lack of phyiscal evidence for the existence of their One True Deity, boldly claim that, because science makes no provision for the supernatural, therefore God cannot be expressed by any scientific measure. However, to the extent the human body and mind are as physical, measurable, and natural as everything else in the universe--which is to say, in total--then this "ineffable God" theory would preclude our ability to comprehend by any means this wonderful God who defies all comprehension. So if there is a God, then by this line of thought the universe has no means whatsoever to detect the existence of God, or express its nature, and likewise we humans in particular have no means to become aware of God, or interact with it, which is another way of saying that God has no observable interaction with the universe, and therefore either cannot or does not interact with any part of it, at all--including us!--which is as good as saying that, in fact, there is no God after all! It's a nasty little concrete wall between God and the universe...and, if you're religious, it's a very unpleasant consequence to all this malarky talk that God inherently transcends physical description.

You can't sneak past logic. You can't bypass science. If God exists, and we are able to become aware of God, yet are ourselves physical creatures governed by the consistencies of the universe, then the means of our becoming aware of God would necessarily entail God manifesting itself in such a way as would be detectable by some physical aspect of our being. To argue otherwise is to suggest that it would take something nonexistent, something beyond our humanity, to become aware of God.

That's where the religious folks start talking about the "soul," which they say defies all corporeal existence and cannot be measured, quantified, or so much as captured on a brain scan machine. It's the ultimate cop-out: When reality proves you wrong, just invoke the powers of faith and start talking about that ethereal, immortal soul goo which is intangible to all the tendrils of our "mundane" world. Hey...if it doesn't exist and isn't real, then those damned secular humanists can't possibly disprove it, yes?

Sadly, that sophomoric gobbledygook constitutes a complete chain of thought on the issue for all too many religions.

Sentenal

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« Reply #81 on: November 08, 2005, 09:09:55 am »
God has manifested in our universe before.  See Jesus Christ.

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #82 on: November 08, 2005, 09:21:24 am »
Quote from: Sentenal
God has manifested in our universe before.  See Jesus Christ.

I was daydreaming this morning...about this very thing. We went back in time to check out this Jesus' character's story, and, seeing it for the mundane reality it was rather than the divine myth it has since become, we went further back in time to extract this guy from the annals of history when he was still a boy. Speaking in the native tongues, we came to an amicable understanding and flew him up in our time machine.

Most of the daydream, of course, was much more interesting: We went BACK!! To the future! to see if the world had turned out for the better. But that is neither here nor there. The moral of this tale:

Jesus: Good story. Okay teachings. Bad religion. I am unpersuaded by the claim of his divine nature.

Mystik3eb

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« Reply #83 on: November 08, 2005, 01:06:02 pm »
Jesus is also hypocritical. I always tried to ignore that when I believed, or say as an excuse: "there's a purpose I don't understand," or even: "it's been corrupted, so maybe he isn't." My opinion nowadays tends to agree with this one:

Quote
I've been reading some of the bible, see. As it turns out, Jesus is not the guy I thought he was. My respect for him has plummetted.

I've only read half of Luke -- after which I couldn't stomach any more -- so I may be missing some important things. However, from what I've seen, the whole "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you", "do not judge", etc. is, like, one thing he said once. The majority of the time, Jesus is busy doing one of the following:

    1) Showing off.
    2) Telling people how great he is.
    3) Judging people.
    4) Warning people how fucked they're going to be if they don't do what he says.[/list:u]

    Seriously, all these miracles he supposedly performed? Curing the sick, resurrecting people, commanding the weather, etc.? It all stinks of a popularity campaign. If Jesus wanted to cure people for the sake of curing people, then why didn't he just cure everyone in one move? Why does he allow disease to exist? No no, he cures people to show off and make people follow him.

    And for someone who tells others not to judge, Jesus sure does a hell of a lot of judging. He's constantly telling people how much they suck, both to their faces and to others.

    And, of course, there's the old "You will go to hell if you don't believe in me.". It turns out Jesus really does make this threat. Yes, apparently a "benevolent" god has put us in a world containing no evidence of his existence other than some 2000-year-old stories, and yet if you are skeptical of him, he will send you to eternal suffering.

    Real benevolent, yes. I really feel loved by this asshole of a god.

    I appologize to those of you who are Christian, but this is ridiculous.


I understand the belief that Jesus is God, and is the person, of all people, to judge, and his warnings about damnation and hellfire could be taken as legit truth. I understand that people can and will believe that Jesus is above the law that he set, being God. However, on the whole, I agree with this guy I quoted.

GrayLensman

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« Reply #84 on: November 08, 2005, 01:52:32 pm »
Quote from: Burning Zeppelin
Of course God has not scientific basis, it transcends time and space!


There is are invisible tiny pink flying unicorns hiding behind your head.  I have a very profound feeling that they are there.  No you can't see, hear, smell, touch or taste them because invisible tiny pink flying unicorns are completely undetectable in every way.  How can I know invisible tiny pink flying unicorns really exist, you ask?  You don't have to take my word for it; it's all written down in this book.  Really, it's true, no kidding!

Quote from: Sentenal
God has manifested in our universe before. See Jesus Christ.


Given the historical evidence, I'm willing to accept that Jesus was a real person.  I am a bit more skeptical of the idea he was the son of god.

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #85 on: November 08, 2005, 02:04:43 pm »
Pink flying unicorns? Careful, Gray. Someone's bound to take you literally, and then, in two thousand years or so...

Sentenal

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« Reply #86 on: November 08, 2005, 02:35:36 pm »
Mystik, that guy you quoted has a huge lack of understanding of theology and christianity.

SilentMartyr

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« Reply #87 on: November 08, 2005, 03:27:38 pm »
Quote from: GrayLensman
Quote from: Burning Zeppelin
Of course God has not scientific basis, it transcends time and space!


There is are invisible tiny pink flying unicorns hiding behind your head.  I have a very profound feeling that they are there.  No you can't see, hear, smell, touch or taste them because invisible tiny pink flying unicorns are completely undetectable in every way.  How can I know invisible tiny pink flying unicorns really exist, you ask?  You don't have to take my word for it; it's all written down in this book.  Really, it's true, no kidding!

Quote from: Sentenal
God has manifested in our universe before. See Jesus Christ.


Given the historical evidence, I'm willing to accept that Jesus was a real person.  I am a bit more skeptical of the idea he was the son of god.


You theories intrigue me, I would like to sign up for your newsletter.

Burning Zeppelin

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« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2005, 05:23:54 am »
Quote from: Lord J esq
Pink flying unicorns? Careful, Gray. Someone's bound to take you literally, and then, in two thousand years or so...

I must say this. I can't resist. I'm sorry. LOL!!!!!!!1!!11!!eleven

First of all, we as humans can not comprehend much. Tell me, do you believe in the big bang? What was before it? Huh? (For the record I believe in big bang as well) Second of all, the fact that God is God. The universe does not have to stay the same for him (Him for the record of habits) while having to change for everyone else. What i should of said is that God can at any time transcend all physics. Third of all, the guy you talked about Mystik was, quote, IDIOT! Wow, Jesus was condemning people. If Jesus is portrayed as God in such books, he would be telling people that "damnit, if you dont listen to me youll die a horrible death and go to a flaming hell!" Also, people in those days had to be wowed by greatness and miracles and Godliness. Maybe God put disease here for a reason, so why would he take it away and go "Ok fine, maybe i was a tad to harsh. Ill just remove all pain and bad stuff from this world and allow you to live on heaven on earth, so my creations can have a nice time, and so that arrogance within humans and hatred among them can be allowed, but at least you wont be sick! So my creation, shall i make you a cup of tea?"

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2005, 03:44:50 pm »
Quote from: Burning Zeppelin
Maybe God put disease here for a reason, so why would he take it away and go "Ok fine, maybe i was a tad to harsh. Ill just remove all pain and bad stuff from this world and allow you to live on heaven on earth, so my creations can have a nice time, and so that arrogance within humans and hatred among them can be allowed, but at least you wont be sick!

So...it's our fault for being who God created us to be. And, therefore, we deserve the ills in the world around us. These are the cards we are dealt upon being born into this world as humans. But we don't have the authority to take responsibility for our nature and choose our own destiny. Instead, we have to pay obeisance to God for all eternity to have even the chance of a better existence.

It's like God is playing poker with our money and our cards, losing as badly as possible, on purpose. Does God have it in for us? Like one of those despicable sports team managers?

God: I shall create...a basketball team!
Angel: Very good, Almighty God!
God: It shall be the very worst team there is! They shall always lose, and I shall have them play for me until the end of time. But each day I will write game plans so horrible they cannot win, and I will make them the laughing stock of the galaxies.
Angel: Won't that dispirit them, O God?
God: No! They shall love me for it, and worship me forever, upon threat of eternal damnation in the hellfire. I shall make them play every game according to my will, and my will is that they be the worst basketball team in the universe, forever.
Angel: What if they try to improve upon your game plans so that they might win on the court?
God: Then I shall be most displeased, and I shall frown, and I shall dip them into the hellfire, and their damnation shall be everlasting. Yea, for it is not their destiny to win. It is their destiny to be the miserable little losers I will them to be! And if they question my will, or defy me, I shall dip them into the hellfire tenfold.
Angel: Yet, O Great God, I cannot help but think--
God: Yes. I am so great, and I will command them to tell me how great I am...several times each day! And then I will afflict them with injuries and bad tempers, in my mercy, and they shall adore me for having created them according to my will. And when their God-given pain clouds their judgment, and the tempers that I gave them arise against me, I shall dip them into the hellfire until their entrails broil in their own juices.
Angel: But God! What if you were to create a winning basketball team? Would your players not be happy and satisfied?
God: I wish to create a team of losers, losers who will lose so badly, yet worship me so deeply, for all eternity. This is my will!
Angel: Amen.

Quote from: Burning Zeppelin
So my creation, shall i make you a cup of tea?"

If only God were so benign! As it is, I don't think I'd trust God's tea.