Author Topic: Should I play FF7?  (Read 20444 times)

Solidstar

  • Guardian (+100)
  • *
  • Posts: 148
    • View Profile
    • http://www.geocities.com/solid_star_16
Should I play FF7?
« Reply #135 on: October 03, 2005, 08:06:13 pm »
No, Kefka was subject to the first experiments with infusing people with magic... which Cid said he never was the same afterwards.

As for Sephiroth... he was an honorable warrior... until the Nibelheim (spelling) incident.  Why... the Shinra Mansion.   In it, he learned a horrible truth, his origin.  Some say that ignorance is bliss... I'd agree.
Did you ever get the Zack flashback Zealty?  It adds a little more of what happens to Cloud and where some of his memories come from.

Sentenal

  • Errare Explorer (+1500)
  • *
  • Posts: 1948
    • View Profile
Should I play FF7?
« Reply #136 on: October 03, 2005, 09:24:41 pm »
Quote
No, Kefka was subject to the first experiments with infusing people with magic... which Cid said he never was the same afterwards.


Where the hell did it say that?

ZeaLitY

  • Entity
  • End of Timer (+10000)
  • *
  • Posts: 10795
  • Spring Breeze Dancin'
    • View Profile
    • My Compendium Staff Profile
Should I play FF7?
« Reply #137 on: October 03, 2005, 09:33:21 pm »
Well, Kefka just seemed to show up and go HAHA. Sephiroth never really was much for theatrics. That's the line I'm drawing, in case my point was fuzzy.

Sentenal

  • Errare Explorer (+1500)
  • *
  • Posts: 1948
    • View Profile
Should I play FF7?
« Reply #138 on: October 03, 2005, 09:38:43 pm »
Kefka could have just been really happy.

Hadriel

  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1044
    • View Profile
Should I play FF7?
« Reply #139 on: October 03, 2005, 10:23:19 pm »
I think it gave Kefka's backstory in some corollary product full of information that should have been explained in the game.

Sephiroth and Kefka were both nuts.  Except that Sephiroth wasn't a transvestite male hooker sideshow reject with a gay laugh.  He was a BAD ASS MOTHER FUCKER who did all the dirty work himself.  Kefka just moved a couple of statues around while laughing maniacally about random shit that nobody ever made any sense out of.  He should have been doing stand-up, not trying to conquer the world.

That would have made a hell of a Chappelle's Show episode...too bad the latter went nuts or something and walked out on his contract.

cupn00dles

  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1031
  • Beneath this mask there is more than flesh.
    • View Profile
Should I play FF7?
« Reply #140 on: October 04, 2005, 01:12:18 am »
For who wants to learn more about the Nibelheim episode and the Zack/Cloud/Sephiroth relationship I'd recommend downloading the FFVII - Last Order OVA, it's a very cool OVA, worth seeing even if you just wanna se something fun XD

V_Translanka

  • Interim Global Moderator
  • Arbiter (+8000)
  • *
  • Posts: 8340
  • Destroyer of Worlds
    • View Profile
    • http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/v_translanka/
Should I play FF7?
« Reply #141 on: October 04, 2005, 02:10:44 am »
An NPC in Vector tells you that Kefka was the first Magik Knight (Magitek if you must) or whatever and well, that's why he's nuts, cause the process wasn't refined...and, well, as we know, it wasn't a sound process even in the end...Only through Espers' Magirock could you truly obtain the powers that the Espers had within themselves.

Quote from: Hadriel
Except that Sephiroth wasn't a transvestite male hooker sideshow reject with a gay laugh.


Besides the laugh part you coulda fooled me...>_>

Plus, what did Sephiroth really do anyways? Not a lot it seems...It was mostly Jenova...>_> At least Kefka wasn't being controlled...He killed quite a lot of people prior and after 'just moving a few statues around' (which just happened to rearrange the face of the planet btw)...

Hadriel

  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1044
    • View Profile
Should I play FF7?
« Reply #142 on: October 04, 2005, 04:44:34 am »
It wasn't Jenova.  You can attribute moral responsibility for Sephiroth's actions to Jenova to a degree, but Sephiroth was the one that actually carried out the plans.  There's no way around that.  Not only that, it's not like Jenova was possessing him or something; he cooperated with her willingly.

Sephiroth did quite a lot in terms of his power.  He fully expected to not only handily survive the meteor, which appeared to be the size of Texas or larger, but actually absorb all of its energy and the Lifestream, to boot.  This is a much larger energy release than the Chixulub impact that Chrono Trigger attributes to Lavos.  That one was "only" about 100 teratons; the nickel-iron asteroid involved in that was only 5-10 km in diameter.  An asteroid the size of Texas would do exponentially more damage, at around 900 km in diameter.  To give an idea of scale, that would basically equate to taking six to ten complete Death Star II superstructures, binding them together with uber-superglue, and smashing them all into a planet (the six to ten figure is used because most of what isn't taken up by the reactor is hollow).  Your characters can't equip materia that powerful until the end of the game when you get the Master Materias, and even then, basically anything but King Arthur's spectral crew would be helpless to stop the incoming meteor.  Kefka couldn't have done that in a million years.  Kefka used the statues to rearrange the face of the world, not his own power.  Even after becoming ruler of the world, the best he could do was blow up a town every once in a while.  Not only that, he almost certainly had a higher death toll than Kefka beforehand; he did bust into the Shinra Building, decimate most or all of the guards and other personnel, and kill President Shinra.  Considering that Shinra basically is the government, that's no small feat.

Burning Zeppelin

  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3137
    • View Profile
    • Delicate Cutters
Should I play FF7?
« Reply #143 on: October 04, 2005, 04:59:14 am »
Out of all the gay transvestite baddies, Kuja is the best. He defeated and controlled Bahamut. And he has THE saddest and most deep storyline, and he has no soul, and is a literal bastard, so the term "souless bastard" actually is true. Lets see Sephiroth and :laughs: Kuja beat him!

V_Translanka

  • Interim Global Moderator
  • Arbiter (+8000)
  • *
  • Posts: 8340
  • Destroyer of Worlds
    • View Profile
    • http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/v_translanka/
Should I play FF7?
« Reply #144 on: October 04, 2005, 06:17:25 am »
Quote from: Hadriel
It wasn't Jenova. You can attribute moral responsibility for Sephiroth's actions to Jenova to a degree, but Sephiroth was the one that actually carried out the plans. There's no way around that. Not only that, it's not like Jenova was possessing him or something; he cooperated with her willingly.


I've heard hundreds of fanboys argue both that Jenova does indeed control him or not...Personally, I think this confusion is one of the major factors of the game that makes me not like it...Not even the kids who like the game can agree wtf Sephiroth did or didn't do...:roll:

Quote from: Hadriel
He fully expected to not only handily survive the meteor, which appeared to be the size of Texas or larger, but actually absorb all of its energy and the Lifestream, to boot.


Yes, I recall a lot of expecting and not a lotta doing.

Kefka poisoned Doma, killing not only all of it's people (Cyan's wife & child!), but the Empirial soldiers held prisoner inside! He also (in no particular order) knifed Leo in the back, enslaved Terra, betrayed and killed his own Emperor, and probably had his hand in the Empirial attack on Rachel's town (sounds very Kefka to me anyways). Then he goes and ufcks w/the Magical balance of the world and creates a literal World of Ruin where all hope is even more limited then it was before! His goal is simple in its complexities: the pure and absolute destruction of hope itself.

He's one twisted sonofabitch.

Silvercry

  • Enlightened One (+200)
  • *
  • Posts: 241
    • View Profile
    • The Great Silvercry's Blog
Should I play FF7?
« Reply #145 on: October 04, 2005, 11:15:34 am »
Well said, V_Translanka.  You don't often find people that actually get Kefka.  And I'll go one further by saying this: He actually won.

Even if it was just for one year, Kefka did one thing that Sephiroth didn't: he actually succeeded in his goals.  Most of his goals in fact.  So Sephy burned down a town.  Kefka poisoned one.  Yeah, he killed President Shinra.  Kefka took out the Emperor.  Sephiroth finished off the Cetra race with Aeris's murder.  Kefka wiped out the entire Esper race in an afternoon.  Still, genocide is genocide, so I'll count that as being equal.

Sephiroth summoned Meteor.  Kefka re-arranged the Goddess Statues, the source off all magic.  One gets a face full of Omnislash for his troubles, the other becomes a demi-god; the living personification of despair and hopelessness for an entire year before they are finally taken out.  Can you guess which is which?

Now, I'm not saying Sephiroth isn't a force to feared and respected.  Of course he is.  As a general rule in a game from Square, anyone who can wield a sword called Masamune demands respect (except for Dario.  That was one cheap-ass battle...).  Of the two, however, Kefka is clearly the better villain.  Nuttier than a fruitcake, as gay as the sunshine club, takes make-up and wardrobe lessons from ICP, but when you absolutely, positively have to destroy the very essence hope in one scene or less, accept no substitutes.

Solidstar

  • Guardian (+100)
  • *
  • Posts: 148
    • View Profile
    • http://www.geocities.com/solid_star_16
Should I play FF7?
« Reply #146 on: October 04, 2005, 12:10:24 pm »
Well said, Kefka is more twisted than a pretzel.  Sephiroth may be twisted, but not that twisted.

ZeaLitY

  • Entity
  • End of Timer (+10000)
  • *
  • Posts: 10795
  • Spring Breeze Dancin'
    • View Profile
    • My Compendium Staff Profile
Should I play FF7?
« Reply #147 on: October 04, 2005, 12:10:37 pm »
Right. The reason I like Sephiroth, and I like most actualized characters in series or games, is because he's consumed with anger -- but he's completely motivated and knows EXACTLY what he's doing. He's self-serving, but he's completely conscious and aware of everything. The anger, directed at anything and everything, and his calculating control and discipline form a lethal, active combination.

Hadriel

  • Dimension Crosser (+1000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1044
    • View Profile
Should I play FF7?
« Reply #148 on: October 04, 2005, 07:40:18 pm »
Quote from: V_Translanka
Yes, I recall a lot of expecting and not a lotta doing.


Doesn't matter.  The math works.

Quote from: V_Translanka
Kefka poisoned Doma, killing not only all of it's people (Cyan's wife & child!), but the Imperial soldiers held prisoner inside! He also (in no particular order) knifed Leo in the back, enslaved Terra, betrayed and killed his own Emperor, and probably had his hand in the Imperial attack on Rachel's town (sounds very Kefka to me anyways). Then he goes and ufcks w/the Magical balance of the world and creates a literal World of Ruin where all hope is even more limited then it was before! His goal is simple in its complexities: the pure and absolute destruction of hope itself.


Meh, I could've done all that.  Well, at least the stuff that didn't involve magic.  

And can you HONESTLY say that it was harder to kill the Emperor than to kill President Shinra?  I mean, seriously.  Even entertaining that notion should automatically render one's argument invalid, for one simple reason: Shinra had guns, and lots of them.  If Kefka had been working for Shinra and tried that shit, he would've had 50 SOLDIERs on him in two seconds firing enough AKs to leave him looking like Swiss cheese before grinding up his body and reprocessing his molecules into confetti.

The point is that Kefka did almost none of his notable deeds under his own power.  Everything Sephiroth did or expected to do, he did on his own.  Besides, if Kefka was such a badass, he would have just blown up the rest of the world after he stole the Goddess Statues' powers.  Not only that, they apparently weren't true goddesses, as you can hurt and defeat them.

Personally, I will always hold that Sephiroth is the better villain, because he's much more engaging to me as a character.  There isn't really any debate over who possesses more raw power, though.  I do take power into account when I judge the quality of a villain.

Sentenal

  • Errare Explorer (+1500)
  • *
  • Posts: 1948
    • View Profile
Should I play FF7?
« Reply #149 on: October 04, 2005, 08:04:02 pm »
Quote
An NPC in Vector tells you that Kefka was the first Magik Knight (Magitek if you must) or whatever and well, that's why he's nuts, cause the process wasn't refined...and, well, as we know, it wasn't a sound process even in the end...Only through Espers' Magirock could you truly obtain the powers that the Espers had within themselves.


I've played through FF6 3 or 4 times, and none of the NPCs in Vector EVER told me that.