Author Topic: *sigh*  (Read 2163 times)

Jutty

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Re: *sigh*
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2008, 03:25:28 am »
Honestly, I feel that we're still viewed as nothing but objects. I know we can't change everywhere, but if I'm a theater teacher and my friend's a theater teacher and he gets more money even though his kids get worse grades, I'm gonna kill something! I hate the fact that most guys think of us as weird gossiping creatures with boobs. I hate that we're seen as things that make sandwiches and clean up everything! I hate that WE have to raise the kids all on our own! Hey, guess what? It's your kid, too! Help out once in a while!

... heheheh... I'm having rage issues right now.

I like to watch The O.C. and gossip..... but I like football and raw meat too ;) Anyway my brother pays child support on his kid when she was the one that was unfaithful. His child doesn't have his last name and he only gets to see him about twice a month even tho he desperately wants to. The women he pays child support to does everything possible to try to make his life worse. At least women are favored in custody battles.

Daniel Krispin

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Re: *sigh*
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2008, 03:42:40 am »
We actually had quite the heated debate in Latin about the role of the woman. Many people seem to feel that everything was just peachy keen in Rome. Ha. If I were in Rome, I would run the hell away.

Nonetheless, it was freer than my societies before and after. At least in Rome women could own and manage property, and the dowry was in fact kept in their possession and they were allowed to use it at their discretion. Pray, if you were to run from Rome, where to would you run? To Egypt? To Parthia? Gaul? I'm not sure these would treat you much better. Indeed, in all the ancient world, few cultures were freer in this regard. Perhaps the Scythians, or Massagetai, which employed their women as warriors; maybe the Minoans, though we know little about them; likely the Egyptians. Beyond that, I'm not familiar with any culture which was more gender equitable than Rome. At any rate Greece certainly wasn't.

By the way, since you were discussing it in Latin class, read some Sulplicia. She's the only Roman poetess from around the golden age of Roman poetry.

Anyway, I don't think the majority of guys see women like that. I'm sure some do, and it lends an unforunately tained impression, but I cannot imagine it is even the majority. After all, judging by things one might hear and see, it could in similar fashion be said that women view men as little more as a means to earn money, etc. etc. Just remember that for every woman that feels men don't respect them, there are men that suffer the same. Of course, the lot of women has traditionally been worse, yet if we are speaking not of societal placement but the pure interaction between the sexes, I'd be willing to say that the objectification can be a charge applied to both sexes equally.

If I did not know any better, teaflower, I would be inclined from my experience to claim in similar fashion that women see only muscles and vigour in men (even as you say men look chiefly to breasts and so), and that whatever lies beyond those surface qualities are disregarded. That they are seen only as the 'defenders' and that it is favoured that they be stupider rather than more intelligent. Yet my reason tells me that such an assertion is most certainly in error, and that oftentimes a view from one perspective can hardly give an accurate account. I think that in all likelihood that that frustration is equally distributed amongst the sexes, with variation only in specific complaint.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 03:45:02 am by Daniel Krispin »

teaflower

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Re: *sigh*
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2008, 10:43:11 am »
What I want in a guy is someone I can have an intellectual discussion with. Or someone who's just too awesome for words. That's why I like my friend Parker the Autistic Genius and Jay the Ultra-Really-Tall-Kinda-Scary-Junior-with-Rage-Issues. I know I would be better off in Rome than anywhere else, but I think I would run away into the future. I know guys pay child support, but maybe I'm biased because of my own family. Remember, my father still owes me $110~ and still blames it on me and my brother doesn't have to do anything if he doesn't want to yet my sister and my mother and I do.

We'll probably read actual poems in Latin III or IV.

Daniel Krispin

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Re: *sigh*
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2008, 04:07:48 pm »
Well, teaflower, I honestly doubt you'd come across Sulpicia even then. She's rather obscure, I think, and there aren't many poems that she wrote (only six), and seeing as they were found as a chapter in the works of Tibullus, some think that she didn't exist, and it's just his experimenting. I'd reject that view... her style is entirely different than Tibullus. Far less polished, and even in Latin sounds more like a young girl talking, rather than an adult poet (after all, judging by the way she's talking, and the customs in Rome, she's probably something like 14.) Anyway, she seems like someone who isn't yet all that deft with the use of language, and so makes things needlessly complex... interesting, to be sure, but all the same makes it a challenge to translate. I've not happened upon her till now, and I'm in a mixed 400/500 level class, which is essentially graduate level. So the chances of you being shown Sulpicia in class are essentially zero.

If you do any poems, they'll be excerpts from Vergil, Ovid, and perhaps Catallus and Horace. These are all excellent poets (though, I must admit, have a certain dislike for Vergil on the grounds that he is very highly lauded, and yet his Aeneid is, for all its excellent Latin writing, Augustan propoganda written in the mode of Homer fanfiction!) and a tad easier. Nonetheless, even these, even in a first year university Latin course, would only be looked at in simplistic and cursory terms. When you get to the tougher writers... well, you'd have to wait for a long time to get to those... or you can always glance at her yourself. Hey, you're not having to do it for class, so find yourself a translation, find yourself the Latin, and compare the two. Rather than having to struggle through translating yourself, you can learn why and how things were done in the poetry, which can be very beneficial!

For example, this is one of hers (a translation I found on this site: http://www.geocities.com/romanelegy/sulpicia.htm) It's not a bad translation:

My hateful birthday’s come, which must be spent in gloom
   in the boring countryside -- without Cerinthus!
What’s nicer than the city?  What girl would want some cabin,
   and the chilly river of Aretium’s fields?
Now do stay put, Messalla; you try too hard to please me:
   trips, my uncle, are not always welcome.
My heart and soul will stay behind, although I’m gone,
   since you won’t let me act as I would wish.

The Latin for this runs:

Inuisus natalis adest, qui rure molesto
et sine Cerintho tristis agendus erit.
Dulcius urbe quid est? an villa sit apta puellae
atque Arretino frigidus amnis agro?
iam, nimium Messalla mei studiose, quiescas:
non tempestivae saepe, propinque, viae.
hic animum sensusque meos abducta relinquo,
arbitrio quamvis non sinis esse meo.

See what you can make out of that. And when you get good enough at Latin, you can try writing your own elegy! I've managed a translation of a full sonnet of mine into proper Latin verse, but it takes a very, very long time, even when you've got a good grasp of what you're doing. Nonetheless, it can be ever so fun. Latinum gaudium est!

teaflower

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Re: *sigh*
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2008, 05:48:18 pm »
Has anyone mentioned that you're too awesome for words, Daniel? Because you are.

Jutty

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Re: *sigh*
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2008, 10:12:01 pm »
This basically sums up how much I respect women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqXi8WmQ_WM lol no seriously tho it's hilarious.

Daniel Krispin

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Re: *sigh*
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2008, 03:39:09 am »
Has anyone mentioned that you're too awesome for words, Daniel? Because you are.

Hm, nope. Usually it's just frustrated sighs as I have a tendency to talk a tad too much about things that excite me, in particular antiquity.

rushingwind

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Re: *sigh*
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2008, 07:50:26 pm »
Thank you, Lord J esq.  Your words mean a lot.


This basically sums up how much I respect women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqXi8WmQ_WM lol no seriously tho it's hilarious.

O_o 

I don't find that funny.  At all.

I have a sense of humor, but that is downright offensive. 

teaflower

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Re: *sigh*
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2008, 07:48:15 pm »
Great. Now I need to wipe my history. My mom's against me seeing this sort of thing (I'm the good child), so wipey wipey, Mr. Compie!

justin3009

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Re: *sigh*
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2008, 09:09:47 pm »
Quote
This basically sums up how much I respect women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqXi8WmQ_WM lol no seriously tho it's hilarious.
- Er...Idiotic videos like that I just do not find funny.  They're to the point of stupidity where it's just not funny.