Author Topic: Masmune Deals more Damage ....to only Magus?  (Read 6234 times)

Chrono'99

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Masmune Deals more Damage ....to only Magus?
« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2005, 06:17:00 am »
Quote from: Zaperking
And 1) Why would the enmity still be of Garai's when we destroyed his soul and let him rest in peace >.>

Well, just try to explain the contrary then: why does Garai's ghost appear?

Also, in which world did the party fight Garai at Isle of the Damned? I don't remember... if it was in Another, it would explain why Garai's ghost still appears when the party fights Dario in Home.

Zaperking

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Masmune Deals more Damage ....to only Magus?
« Reply #46 on: October 08, 2005, 07:36:50 am »
I already explained. They reuse models. I mean, Karsh's younger self looks like Steena. Garai's ghost is the same as when he faught Radius in sparring. Think about >.>

Besides, Even if that ghost was Garai, i only think it was in his image, not actually the spirit of Garai, just a body used to intimidate the enemy more.

Chrono'99

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Masmune Deals more Damage ....to only Magus?
« Reply #47 on: October 08, 2005, 09:29:08 am »
Karsh's younger self looks kinda like Steena, but it's just the character design, it's clearly not Steena's sprite (well, Steena's polygons or whatever). In the Radius flashback, they did reuse Garai's model, but it is Garai anyway, the very same person (though he should be younger, and less pale and tall).

Now, in the scenes with Dario, why would they use Garai's model if it's not supposed to be Garai? I mean, who would this ghost be then? Certainly not Dario's shadow, since Dario has already 2 models they could use (young and adult model).

Zaperking

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Masmune Deals more Damage ....to only Magus?
« Reply #48 on: October 08, 2005, 10:49:06 am »
It could just be a representation of all the enmity. Heck, Lynx didn't go insane from touching the Masamune.

Note: Why can Lynx control the Masamune? Maybe because he has no soul?

nightmare975

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Masmune Deals more Damage ....to only Magus?
« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2005, 12:29:57 pm »
Quote from: Zaperking
Note: Why can Lynx control the Masamune? Maybe because he has no soul?


I think FATE was helping him do it.

Zenning

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Masmune Deals more Damage ....to only Magus?
« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2005, 01:55:15 pm »
Quote from: Chrono'99
Also, in which world did the party fight Garai at Isle of the Damned? I don't remember... if it was in Another, it would explain why Garai's ghost still appears when the party fights Dario in Home.

You might want to read this if you haven't:

Let me summarize the order of events surrounding the Masamune:

Masamune, one way or another, is filled with enmity, and ends up in El Nido.

It's first found at Divine Dragon Falls (Home World), by Garai and Radius.

Radius becomes possessed by the enmity of the sword, and kills Garai, letting lose his secret inhibition of being jealous of the man for always being a better swordsman than he.

Garai is buried on the Isle of the Damned (Home World) before it was infested with monsters. (We know this is Home World's course of events, because Garai's grave is only on the Isle of the Damned in Home World).

Chances are, Garai's vengeance attracted demons and made it the nesting ground of demons that it is today. The Masamune teleports to the Isle of the Damned to take advantage of its previous victim's enmity (Garai's enmity).

Eventually, Karsh and Dario make an expedition to the Isle of the Damned (Another World), and Dario finds the sword, and is possessed by Garai's enmity (we see the ghost of a giant man in armor wielding two swords, clearly Garai, behind Dario); Garai's enmity crossed dimensions from Home World's Damned Isle to Another World's Damned Isle. Karsh kills Dario in effort to protect himself. (This sequence of events happened in Another World, when the Dragoons didn't go to the Dead Sea/Sea of Eden; we know this because they're still alive, while we see them frozen in the Dead Sea of Home World).

The Masamune is further filled with the enmity of another victim: Dario.

However, Dario is still alive in Home World, because Karsh went to the Dead Sea with the other dragoons, didn't kill Dario, and Dario ended up on the forgotten island.

However, Dario's enmity crosses the dimensions from Another World to Home World, and again, the Masamune appears before one of its previous victims to smite some people, and thus obtain further enmity from their fallen bodies. Again, we see the ghost of the armored giant with two swords (Garai) appear behind Dario.

Of course, eventually we defeat Dario, and the sword is freed from enmity. (Though, if you ask me, defeating the wielder of the cursed Masamune would only further fill the sword with resentment, for being defeated).

...

Zaper, I can't believe that you don't think the ghost is Garai. The ghost clearly resembles Garai just as he looks when we fought him. Who else would the ghost be, and why else would it appear, if it wasn't Garai's ghost?

Your "character model re-use" theory simply flies in the face of all evidence. Yeah, they re-used Garai's character model because it was supposed to be Garai, not because they thought it would look cool to have it appear again in conjunction with the Masamune.

Zaperking

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Masmune Deals more Damage ....to only Magus?
« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2005, 09:40:19 pm »
Well, Maybe if someone said it was Garai like Radius or another party member, then I would. Otherwise, you've got a wild ass guess. The enmity pretty much said it wanted to kill all. WTF. That sounds more like every enmity of everyone who ever died by it >.> Not just a single person, besides the point - How can a ghost have so much power that it can traverse dimension? You're making it seem as powerful as the Dragon God, in which case it's not.

nightmare975

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Masmune Deals more Damage ....to only Magus?
« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2005, 11:28:42 pm »
Quote from: Zaperking
Well, Maybe if someone said it was Garai like Radius or another party member, then I would. Otherwise, you've got a wild ass guess. The enmity pretty much said it wanted to kill all. WTF. That sounds more like every enmity of everyone who ever died by it >.> Not just a single person, besides the point - How can a ghost have so much power that it can traverse dimension? You're making it seem as powerful as the Dragon God, in which case it's not.


Hate can spread everywhere.

AuraTwilight

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Masmune Deals more Damage ....to only Magus?
« Reply #53 on: October 09, 2005, 01:28:24 pm »
Hate is usually the most powerful force in fiction, trumped only by Love.

in A Wrinkle In Time, the X are extradimensional beings that have no names, and thusly have no love. They go around unraveling existence until they are named and loved. Then they vanish.

In Earthbound, Giygas turns out to be a psionic manifestation of all the hate in the universe, not an alien. He is only defeated by prayer.

In Escaflowne the movie, when Escaflowne is corrupted by hatred, The world is only spared by the power of love, and then the Escaflowne is revived in it's true Dragon Form.

in Time Beats for a Moment, Deus declares that Hate is the only true unifying emotion, as no one pretends to hate. Then when the Shroud has enveloped the planet, Skella tells him that he is wrong, and says that love is the true unifying emotion because the bonds of true love cannot be imitated.

and finally, Chrono Cross's ending, in my interpretation, is another example. When Schala is consumed by hate, she's isolated in the DBT on a self-destructive cycle. When she is freed by Serge (Whom she loves) She finds herself in the real world, searching forever and a day for the one who directed Serge's actions. :D I think it's cute.

nightmare975

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Masmune Deals more Damage ....to only Magus?
« Reply #54 on: October 09, 2005, 06:02:49 pm »
The Masamune is a sword created by Lavos' energy! The sword could have always been evil, we just never assumed it.

Zaperking

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Masmune Deals more Damage ....to only Magus?
« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2005, 06:04:54 pm »
Radical Dreamers says that Melchior created the Masamune as a demonic sword already, but that the power was like consealed. And then the Einlanzer was created to counter it, be it Dragonian or Melchior himself.

Exodus

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Masmune Deals more Damage ....to only Magus?
« Reply #56 on: October 17, 2005, 01:41:27 pm »
Quote from: Zenning

And then there's the theory that, the sword, being made of the red stone produced by Lavos, is thus connected to Lavos, and thus the vengeance is that of Lavos for being sent to the darkness beyond time.


...

Lavos does not produce Dreamstone.

Chrono'99

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Masmune Deals more Damage ....to only Magus?
« Reply #57 on: October 17, 2005, 01:49:59 pm »
Quote from: Exodus
Quote from: Zenning

And then there's the theory that, the sword, being made of the red stone produced by Lavos, is thus connected to Lavos, and thus the vengeance is that of Lavos for being sent to the darkness beyond time.


...

Lavos does not produce Dreamstone.

He probably means that the actual Masamune knightsword was produced by Lavos (by the Mammon Machine's link). It was "just" a Red Knife before that.

Exodus

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Masmune Deals more Damage ....to only Magus?
« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2005, 02:35:38 pm »
In my defense, he does state "the red stone produced by lavos," and there is only one red stone in Trigger- Dreamstone.

GrayLensman

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Masmune Deals more Damage ....to only Magus?
« Reply #59 on: October 17, 2005, 05:09:47 pm »
Quote from: Zaperking
Radical Dreamers says that Melchior created the Masamune as a demonic sword already, but that the power was like consealed. And then the Einlanzer was created to counter it, be it Dragonian or Melchior himself.


These are all the references to the Masamune.

Quote
We rush over towards the sword. Looking down at it, Magil starts to speak.
"This may be what we're looking for. By the looks of it, this sword could be
the fabled holy Einlanzer, or perhaps the demonic Masamune..."
"Wow Magil, you know about the Masamune?"


Quote
"If you must search that room, be sure you have the Einlanzer with you
before you do."
"Eye-what?" Kid asks.
"It is a holy white sword, created long ago by ancient sages along with its
demonic brother, the Masamune.


In Radical Dreamers, the Einlanzer and Masamune were both made in Zeal.