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61
General Discussion / Re: my rant/beef against religion and antheism
« on: January 24, 2010, 03:39:27 pm »So I was having an intelligent debate on youtube the other day. Yes I said intelligent. Predictably enough, the fellow decided to get moronic on me. We were discussing satanism of all things. The person said they were a satanist but that they don't believe in satan. That in and of itself is a contradiction. He pulled the Anton LaVey crap on me, which I knew he would. For those that don't know there are many forms of satanism:
theistic: belief in the actual deity of Lucifer
LaVeyan: worship of the self, does not belief in ANY deities, ie atheist (or so they say)
To be a christian you must worship christ, to be muslim you must worship allah. to be a satanist you don't have to worship satan........where's the logic at? truth be told these LaVeyan "'Satanists'" are a bunch of fags (and I'm saying this in shock value at the risk of sounding like an ignorant raving madman/8th grader/immature loser). They say they worship the self, promote the individual. Yet they still do all the silly stereotypical satanic stuff. Hell, they go even further than that, these dumbasses have inverse catholic masses, satanic weddings and even satanic holydays. In this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pwAOSwHuTQ) LaVey can be seen dressed in what appears to be a Halloween costume,chanting the name of random mythological beasts. Wait, I thought this was supposed to be a no nonsense religion of self worship? Is it just me, or is the guy doin it for the shock appeal? Indeed.
Yes I see what you mean! Christians worship Christ! Muslims worship Allah! Buddhists worship....Buddha? Oh wait they don't necessarily, do they? Okay Taoists worship...Tao? No again! Narrow definitions of what religion are supposed to be are amusing, but they're not generally accepted. The figure of Buddha in Buddhism is not actually worshipped, and some Buddhists don't even set much store in Siddhartha Gautama (there's a Zen Koan that says if you meet Buddha, then you kill him). Buddha is thus a concept, a symbol of their philosophy. Such it is with Satan in Satanism.
It's a good thing there are no Atheist holidays, yes?
Many religions reject the natural world and reason in favor of an afterlife and faith. Atheism rejects the irrationalities of faith. Satanism is kind of a mid point between these. They embrace the earthly, mundane world, but also the fantastic elements of religions. Rituals, mythological symbols. These are built into human nature, and Satanism seeks to embrace and use them rather than to throw them out. There's nothing really illogical or stupid about this. Then you'll ask, "Well why use Satan, isn't that just for shock?" I'd say no. Thanks to the work of John Milton, the Christian Devil has become a heroic, romantic figure. The Gnostics before that viewed the Serpent (traditionally associated with the Devil) as giving the gift of knowledge to humanity (painting God as the bad guy in this instance). Outside of Abrahamic myth, devilish characters often play beneficial roles for humanity. Prometheus is an obvious choice. "Satan" is just the most recognizable form in the West of an age old archetype that they view as the personification of their philosophy.
There's nothing really wrong with Satanism other than the seemingly natural and widespread prejudice against it.
62
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Want a new Chrono game?
« on: January 24, 2010, 04:15:33 am »
I would expect FF sites to maybe get to this point. I can hear all the mad theories about how VII and X take place on the same planet/world/universe. Still, I think sites like this are pretty rare.
Another thing: Chrono Cross, when it was released, sold something like 1.5 million copies. Granted this is not the seller that the FF titles are. But isn't that motivation enough for another sequel? Do they really have to resell both games before they're motivated? Granted the FF series eclipsed these sales (making a killing with FF VIII and IX). But look at other series. They've continued the Mana series. Don't get me wrong, I like the Mana series and everything. I loved Secret of Mana. But Chrono Cross outsold Legend of Mana which was also released in 1999/2000.
These are all numbers gleaned from Wiki, so I may be horribly wrong in my perception. But from purely a numbers point of view, Cross did way better and would be far more logical for another game. Not only did it sell more, it got what seems to be unanimously better reviews. The only possible factor would be the rumored "politics" of getting the Chrono team together, but even that doesn't seem so hard with so many of the main people working either with Square or just closely to them.
Another thing: Chrono Cross, when it was released, sold something like 1.5 million copies. Granted this is not the seller that the FF titles are. But isn't that motivation enough for another sequel? Do they really have to resell both games before they're motivated? Granted the FF series eclipsed these sales (making a killing with FF VIII and IX). But look at other series. They've continued the Mana series. Don't get me wrong, I like the Mana series and everything. I loved Secret of Mana. But Chrono Cross outsold Legend of Mana which was also released in 1999/2000.
These are all numbers gleaned from Wiki, so I may be horribly wrong in my perception. But from purely a numbers point of view, Cross did way better and would be far more logical for another game. Not only did it sell more, it got what seems to be unanimously better reviews. The only possible factor would be the rumored "politics" of getting the Chrono team together, but even that doesn't seem so hard with so many of the main people working either with Square or just closely to them.
63
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Want a new Chrono game?
« on: January 22, 2010, 02:05:37 am »
I know this thread is a tad older, but recently I sent an email to the North American one and Japan. They replied the form that was put up earlier from the North American office. Yahoo sent me a failure notice on the Japan email. Of course my next step is to get around to writing letters (or in the case of the Japanese office, printing one out).
It's obvious that Square pays attention to the fans. What baffles me is that they aren't more willing to make the games. Obviously there might be logistical problems of getting the creators together. But, honestly, I've never seen another fan community like this. Perhaps I'm not looking in the right places online. But I've never seen this much devoted to a video game. The Mario Bros don't get this kind of analysis and half crazed, frothing at the mouth collection of theory and they've made ten million games starring them (granted that's a different company, but the principle is the same). They say "buy more" in the Wikipedia article for Chrono Break, but curiously Wiki also says that Chrono Trigger DS has sold about seven hundred thousand copies (as of December 2008). Joystiq says that as of May 31st that the game stands at seven hundred and ninety thousand copies, which puts it not far behind some of it's better selling DS games like Dragon Quest V which is somewhere over a million.
The stupid thing is, there are probably people who aren't exactly die hard fans who go "Oh they're just reselling Chrono Trigger; I'll go play that on my Playstation" who would still go out and buy a brand new Chrono game if it suddenly appeared.
I just don't get it. I don't even play very many new video games anymore, but I would play any Chrono game that ever comes out. I mean I pretty much ignore the Final Fantasy series these days, nothing ever quite living up to VII. But I'd buy Chrono in a heartbeat.
It's obvious that Square pays attention to the fans. What baffles me is that they aren't more willing to make the games. Obviously there might be logistical problems of getting the creators together. But, honestly, I've never seen another fan community like this. Perhaps I'm not looking in the right places online. But I've never seen this much devoted to a video game. The Mario Bros don't get this kind of analysis and half crazed, frothing at the mouth collection of theory and they've made ten million games starring them (granted that's a different company, but the principle is the same). They say "buy more" in the Wikipedia article for Chrono Break, but curiously Wiki also says that Chrono Trigger DS has sold about seven hundred thousand copies (as of December 2008). Joystiq says that as of May 31st that the game stands at seven hundred and ninety thousand copies, which puts it not far behind some of it's better selling DS games like Dragon Quest V which is somewhere over a million.
The stupid thing is, there are probably people who aren't exactly die hard fans who go "Oh they're just reselling Chrono Trigger; I'll go play that on my Playstation" who would still go out and buy a brand new Chrono game if it suddenly appeared.
I just don't get it. I don't even play very many new video games anymore, but I would play any Chrono game that ever comes out. I mean I pretty much ignore the Final Fantasy series these days, nothing ever quite living up to VII. But I'd buy Chrono in a heartbeat.
64
Magic, Elements, and Technology / Re: Kato's intelligence on Black Magic
« on: January 19, 2010, 03:53:25 am »
I realize that this is months late, but....
Tushantin, you say that the pentagram when turned "upside down" becomes demonic in nature. Why? I assume that you are referring to the point down pentagram which is a prejudice that is all the rage since Elphias Levi, but as far as I've been able to find, the Pythagoreans who are probably the earliest verifiable initiatory organization to use the pentagram originally drew it point down.
As far as I can tell, in the Greek systems the "fifth element" was Aether, which is most assuredly not Light. I'm not as familiar with Kabbalistic traditions, so I can't comment on them. The closest reference to a Light element (outside of Wiccan systems which I'm always wary about) is the "Heaven" element in the Japanese understanding of the elements. But even that is more related to Aether than anything else. "Light" would seem a poor interpretation of this. Of course you could also interpret this fifth as "Void", which you connect with Shadow.
"Shadow" in Chrono Trigger is most assuredly an actual element. As the dear Encyclopedia says, "Due to its unique nature, Shadow is somewhat composed of the other elements combined. It can be made from only Fire and Water (as in Antipode), or from all three other elements." A kind of master element, which I think has been discussed elsewhere.
Incidentally, I think I agree with what you said about Dalton and the Golems.
Tushantin, you say that the pentagram when turned "upside down" becomes demonic in nature. Why? I assume that you are referring to the point down pentagram which is a prejudice that is all the rage since Elphias Levi, but as far as I've been able to find, the Pythagoreans who are probably the earliest verifiable initiatory organization to use the pentagram originally drew it point down.
As far as I can tell, in the Greek systems the "fifth element" was Aether, which is most assuredly not Light. I'm not as familiar with Kabbalistic traditions, so I can't comment on them. The closest reference to a Light element (outside of Wiccan systems which I'm always wary about) is the "Heaven" element in the Japanese understanding of the elements. But even that is more related to Aether than anything else. "Light" would seem a poor interpretation of this. Of course you could also interpret this fifth as "Void", which you connect with Shadow.
"Shadow" in Chrono Trigger is most assuredly an actual element. As the dear Encyclopedia says, "Due to its unique nature, Shadow is somewhat composed of the other elements combined. It can be made from only Fire and Water (as in Antipode), or from all three other elements." A kind of master element, which I think has been discussed elsewhere.
Incidentally, I think I agree with what you said about Dalton and the Golems.
65
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Did Magus miss his big chance on Death Peak?
« on: December 14, 2009, 02:12:57 am »
Now, I'm not too well read up on the current Time theories, so if I'm wrong or crazy then I apologize.
Wasn't it Schala who sends everybody (including Magus) OUT of the Ocean Palace when Lavos decided to blow Zeal up? If so, wouldn't pulling Schala out of the time stream be kind of like everybody in 600 giving up the search for Queen Leene because they found this younger, spunky look-alike wandering around the canyon?
Magus, finding himself back in Zeal, didn't seem to have a lot of reservations about messing with the timeline. To be fair however, he didn't change much, letting events progress in a similar fashion so that he might confront Lavos (who would have generated the same Gates sending young Janus and the three Gurus traveling through time). So he may have been somewhat conscious of the problems presented in affecting the way events have already played out. If he's aware of the possibility of invalidating his own existence, he may have known better than to try and save Schala then when this might have happened.
Wasn't it Schala who sends everybody (including Magus) OUT of the Ocean Palace when Lavos decided to blow Zeal up? If so, wouldn't pulling Schala out of the time stream be kind of like everybody in 600 giving up the search for Queen Leene because they found this younger, spunky look-alike wandering around the canyon?
Magus, finding himself back in Zeal, didn't seem to have a lot of reservations about messing with the timeline. To be fair however, he didn't change much, letting events progress in a similar fashion so that he might confront Lavos (who would have generated the same Gates sending young Janus and the three Gurus traveling through time). So he may have been somewhat conscious of the problems presented in affecting the way events have already played out. If he's aware of the possibility of invalidating his own existence, he may have known better than to try and save Schala then when this might have happened.
66
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: A note on Miguel...
« on: October 16, 2009, 02:33:48 am »
Heck, we could say that Crono is really Connor MacLeod, because they are both powerful warriors and both use a katana (and both have seen events separated by hundreds of years), if that is all it takes to have a valid theory.
I like this theory the best.
The only thing this thread has managed to accomplish is suggest a plausible reason for Crono's disappearance other than death. I like the idea of Crono having a child and hiding away. It would make sense if there were anything like evidence for it. It at least provides an interesting plot idea if they ever do decide to bring Crono back into the series (ahem, revive the SERIES) without having some lame thing like "Oh he's dead."
And seriously? Magic just stopping? Not working anymore? Where is ANY evidence for that at all?
Overall, this thread is just insane.
67
Reality, Real-World Connections, and the Supernatural / Re: Harle and Harley
« on: July 26, 2008, 04:01:17 am »you know i thought of that to, but i guess the creators would have to be watching Batman?
Shouldn't everybody be watching Batman?
68
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Marle's Disappearence.
« on: July 26, 2008, 03:49:05 am »
Hmmm....still not sure how to explain that.....Leene was still alive.
Thats the problem with determining mechanics of a plot that potentially has holes.
If nothing is predetermined, necessarily, then Marle's presence didn't necessarily destroy Leene (invalidating her own existence and Time with it). Similarly, as has been brought up, when Ayla leaves her time, she's missing for billions of years possibly invalidating a lot of people and events.
Not assuming that everything is predetermined (the mechanics of the Chronoverse, the fact that the plot occurs at all, argues strongly against that), could it be that instead the presence and movements of a person through time and in time streams have a "logical" impact? Meaning that, while Leene was still technically alive, Marle's presence made her likely to die, thus invalidating Marle's existence. This would not affect 600 AD immediately, but in 1000 AD, things would naturally change and thus Marle wouldn't exist. Even though Leene was still "alive" in 600, history was already changed according to a perspective from 1000 to incorporate the problem. Of course, again, this would create the so called "infinity loop" until corrected by Crono.
Something that has always bugged me is the obvious existence of subjective time streams. Meaning that, while the Kingdom of Zeal is something from the past and the Kingdom of Guardia is a future occurence, from Crono's perspective, Zeal is in his own personal "future." How do we account for the fact that people travel to the "past" in their own personal future?
Thats the problem with determining mechanics of a plot that potentially has holes.
If nothing is predetermined, necessarily, then Marle's presence didn't necessarily destroy Leene (invalidating her own existence and Time with it). Similarly, as has been brought up, when Ayla leaves her time, she's missing for billions of years possibly invalidating a lot of people and events.
Not assuming that everything is predetermined (the mechanics of the Chronoverse, the fact that the plot occurs at all, argues strongly against that), could it be that instead the presence and movements of a person through time and in time streams have a "logical" impact? Meaning that, while Leene was still technically alive, Marle's presence made her likely to die, thus invalidating Marle's existence. This would not affect 600 AD immediately, but in 1000 AD, things would naturally change and thus Marle wouldn't exist. Even though Leene was still "alive" in 600, history was already changed according to a perspective from 1000 to incorporate the problem. Of course, again, this would create the so called "infinity loop" until corrected by Crono.
Something that has always bugged me is the obvious existence of subjective time streams. Meaning that, while the Kingdom of Zeal is something from the past and the Kingdom of Guardia is a future occurence, from Crono's perspective, Zeal is in his own personal "future." How do we account for the fact that people travel to the "past" in their own personal future?
69
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Marle's Disappearence.
« on: July 21, 2008, 01:25:05 pm »
Maybe not there necessarily. If I had to guess, "severe phenomena" would begin to occur in 1000 AD, but would eventually spread outward. I could be wrong. I understand almost nothing about physics, how time actually works, or anything else for that matter, but it was just a thought I had.
70
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Marle's Disappearence.
« on: July 21, 2008, 01:10:39 pm »
Insane.....what do you mean?
Maybe it wasn't clear.
Maybe Marle's disappearance was Time beginning to unravel.
Makes me think of Donnie Darko.
Maybe it wasn't clear.
Maybe Marle's disappearance was Time beginning to unravel.
Makes me think of Donnie Darko.
71
Chrono Trigger: Prophet's Guile / Re: Where can I download this game?
« on: July 13, 2008, 04:07:02 pm »
I just have problem after problem with technical things but....what do I use to patch Prophet's Guile with Chrono Trigger?
72
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Marle's Disappearence.
« on: July 12, 2008, 01:58:05 pm »
While everybody is debating the idea of just how Marle may have disappeared without her disappearance affecting Crono, could it be that her vanishing act was in fact the beginning of time unraveling from the stress of an "infinity loop?" Placed in a context of "actually happening", the idea seems totally logical.
Rather than time shifting constantly between Crono and Marle meeting, going to 600 AD, and then the process reversing itself, would time rather just simply begin giving out? Like a dam with a crack in it. The crack, its weakest point, being Marle. Thus she disappears. If events had been allowed to progress, the rest of the world would have followed, steadily weakening and distorting or disappearing. But Crono, Lucca, and Frog interrupted the inconsistency and reversed the problem.
Just a thought on the subject.
Rather than time shifting constantly between Crono and Marle meeting, going to 600 AD, and then the process reversing itself, would time rather just simply begin giving out? Like a dam with a crack in it. The crack, its weakest point, being Marle. Thus she disappears. If events had been allowed to progress, the rest of the world would have followed, steadily weakening and distorting or disappearing. But Crono, Lucca, and Frog interrupted the inconsistency and reversed the problem.
Just a thought on the subject.
73
History, Locations, and Artifacts / Re: Porre and Guardia: An Exhaustive and Exhausting Analysis
« on: July 12, 2008, 12:37:43 pm »
Guardia is the only place that the Masamune could have really ended up. Granted Frog didn't live in Truce, but he was on such great terms with the royal line (from all ages apparently) that Guardia is the only place he could logically trust it. At the very least, it would sit for some four hundred years until Crono comes into the picture and could safeguard it.
I know that Lucca at least was very aware of the significance of time traveling and what might happen if one interfered. But I don't think that, if the "outside influence" was Belthazar that it would have been as straightforward as him telling them to back away or them simply backing away. Motivations are harder to gauge. If they realized that their interference with time had somehow caused Porre's rise and Guardia's fall, what would they have done? Sat back?
That never seemed Crono and Co's style.
There has to be more behind it. Just like the Telepod and the escape from the Chancellor lead to the discovery of Lavos and a larger adventure, so the Rise of Porre naturally must have lead to some bigger threat. Direct conflict with this mysterious traveler.
Honestly, I don't see Belthezar as being so All Knowing as being able to determine where the Masamune had to be in order for it to block Serge and thus make Serge seek out the Einlanzer. You could attempt to extend things further and suggest that in some insane, half crazed extradimensional way that the old Guru was the Entity and caused Chrono Trigger. Granted he had a lot of foreknowledge.
But the Rise of Porre does not seem so essential to the plot of Chrono Cross and the defeat of the Time Devourer. The Acacia Dragoons are important, certainly. General Viper. Chronopolis, Fate, and Lynx. But Porre? I don't know. Not enough for Belthezar to concern himself specifically.
I know that Lucca at least was very aware of the significance of time traveling and what might happen if one interfered. But I don't think that, if the "outside influence" was Belthazar that it would have been as straightforward as him telling them to back away or them simply backing away. Motivations are harder to gauge. If they realized that their interference with time had somehow caused Porre's rise and Guardia's fall, what would they have done? Sat back?
That never seemed Crono and Co's style.
There has to be more behind it. Just like the Telepod and the escape from the Chancellor lead to the discovery of Lavos and a larger adventure, so the Rise of Porre naturally must have lead to some bigger threat. Direct conflict with this mysterious traveler.
Honestly, I don't see Belthezar as being so All Knowing as being able to determine where the Masamune had to be in order for it to block Serge and thus make Serge seek out the Einlanzer. You could attempt to extend things further and suggest that in some insane, half crazed extradimensional way that the old Guru was the Entity and caused Chrono Trigger. Granted he had a lot of foreknowledge.
But the Rise of Porre does not seem so essential to the plot of Chrono Cross and the defeat of the Time Devourer. The Acacia Dragoons are important, certainly. General Viper. Chronopolis, Fate, and Lynx. But Porre? I don't know. Not enough for Belthezar to concern himself specifically.
74
Site Updates / Re: Chrono Trigger DS updates
« on: July 06, 2008, 04:50:45 pm »
Maybe someone whose more intelligent than me can help. But I did the low quality download, but I can't seem to get any video from it. I run it through Windows Player and the weird graphicy thing runs. All sound and no picture? HELP!
75
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Chrono Sinners
« on: December 16, 2007, 06:51:49 pm »
Crono: Gluttony
Crono reminds me of Goku from DBZ. They both like a good time, both like to fight. And they both are essentially good. However they both eat like pigs.
Crono, first, drank Ayla into the prehistoric ground. He may have eaten an old man's lunch. If you're successful, you can fill a table with empty "soda" cans at the fair. He freeloads at the castle quite a bit. In the future he "sponges" off Marle's dad, which probably includes more food freeloading. They try to get back in good graces with the king, and so they try to give him jerky. After he dies, he is revived with an Egg.
Magus: Wrath
I'm sure Magus wakes up everyday "If a demonic outer space tick smites you on one cheek, smash him on the other." And we can't forget his most badass line ever. "I abolish all those who block my way, without exception."
Marle: Sloth
She's royalty. She shirks duty in order and her life as a princess to go to the fair. I don't blame her for it. But it makes her guilty of Sloth!
Ayla: Lust
I seem to recall her saying she'd go for anybody as long as they're strong. No doubt, strong loving to ensue.
Frog: Envy
I debated making him Wrath, but there's a decided sad note in how he lives. Cut off from human society. He envied Cyrus. His envy was indulged somewhat when he got the Masamune. Notice, thats the brightest point personality wise in the game for him aside from the Hero's Grave Quest.
Lucca: Pride
No need to explain that one really.
Robo: Greed
Robo is probably the hardest to hit. But I say Greed. He's greedy for friends and purpose.
The hard part about all of this is thinking of them all as sins, or bad things. The characters may be guilty of said things but they're not exactly malevolent (well, not all of them).
Crono reminds me of Goku from DBZ. They both like a good time, both like to fight. And they both are essentially good. However they both eat like pigs.
Crono, first, drank Ayla into the prehistoric ground. He may have eaten an old man's lunch. If you're successful, you can fill a table with empty "soda" cans at the fair. He freeloads at the castle quite a bit. In the future he "sponges" off Marle's dad, which probably includes more food freeloading. They try to get back in good graces with the king, and so they try to give him jerky. After he dies, he is revived with an Egg.
Magus: Wrath
I'm sure Magus wakes up everyday "If a demonic outer space tick smites you on one cheek, smash him on the other." And we can't forget his most badass line ever. "I abolish all those who block my way, without exception."
Marle: Sloth
She's royalty. She shirks duty in order and her life as a princess to go to the fair. I don't blame her for it. But it makes her guilty of Sloth!
Ayla: Lust
I seem to recall her saying she'd go for anybody as long as they're strong. No doubt, strong loving to ensue.
Frog: Envy
I debated making him Wrath, but there's a decided sad note in how he lives. Cut off from human society. He envied Cyrus. His envy was indulged somewhat when he got the Masamune. Notice, thats the brightest point personality wise in the game for him aside from the Hero's Grave Quest.
Lucca: Pride
No need to explain that one really.
Robo: Greed
Robo is probably the hardest to hit. But I say Greed. He's greedy for friends and purpose.
The hard part about all of this is thinking of them all as sins, or bad things. The characters may be guilty of said things but they're not exactly malevolent (well, not all of them).