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1
Chrono Trigger DS Analysis / Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« on: March 20, 2009, 03:23:55 pm »
Here is the impression I got of the new ending.
The dimensional vortex and the new ending are only accessible if you've already beaten Lavos. However, they do not take place after you beat Lavos. Instead you have the option of either facing him, or the Dream Devourer. As such, I think we have to consider this an alternate time line to the canon one. This alternate timeline is identical to the canon one, up until the ocean palace is destroyed, then it branches off. Where as the canon timeline continues with the party facing and defeating Lavos at the end of time, the alternate one has the party explore the dimensional vortex and ultimately face the dream devourer.
This clears up the plot ramifications of the new game content. For one, the canon party never stops Dalton because they never saw him in the vortex. The canon party new nothing of the dream devourer because they killed Lavos and went on with their merry little lives.
It would also make sense that Magus in the Dream Devourer sequence is canon Magus, after he leaves and before the current events in Chrono Cross. Upon discovering the Dream Devourer, Lucca and Robo and the guru impliment Project Kid (my recollection of how this happens is vague), where as Magus goes off on his own to kick its butt. And fails.
The dimensional vortex and the new ending are only accessible if you've already beaten Lavos. However, they do not take place after you beat Lavos. Instead you have the option of either facing him, or the Dream Devourer. As such, I think we have to consider this an alternate time line to the canon one. This alternate timeline is identical to the canon one, up until the ocean palace is destroyed, then it branches off. Where as the canon timeline continues with the party facing and defeating Lavos at the end of time, the alternate one has the party explore the dimensional vortex and ultimately face the dream devourer.
This clears up the plot ramifications of the new game content. For one, the canon party never stops Dalton because they never saw him in the vortex. The canon party new nothing of the dream devourer because they killed Lavos and went on with their merry little lives.
It would also make sense that Magus in the Dream Devourer sequence is canon Magus, after he leaves and before the current events in Chrono Cross. Upon discovering the Dream Devourer, Lucca and Robo and the guru impliment Project Kid (my recollection of how this happens is vague), where as Magus goes off on his own to kick its butt. And fails.
2
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Doppelgangers in the Black Omen
« on: January 03, 2006, 03:48:11 pm »
The time devourer is made up of Schalla and Lavos. Lavos may be male or female or both or neither, we dont know. Schalla is quite obviously female.
You keep saying that because the time devourer is female, Lavos was cause Lavos is dominent. However, the time devourer is NOT female, atleast not in the typical sence.
In fact, the Lavos portion looks like its either male, female, both or neither as Lavos was and the Schalla portion is female, simply because schalla was. Schalla merged with Lavos, and I highly doubt she'd keep lose her female appearence completely in the merger and grow male bits simply because of what Lavos's base gender may or may not be.
I'm pretty certain that the Schalla portion has nothing to do with who's dominent, it has to do with the fact that it was a female body that merged with Lavos.
You keep saying that because the time devourer is female, Lavos was cause Lavos is dominent. However, the time devourer is NOT female, atleast not in the typical sence.
In fact, the Lavos portion looks like its either male, female, both or neither as Lavos was and the Schalla portion is female, simply because schalla was. Schalla merged with Lavos, and I highly doubt she'd keep lose her female appearence completely in the merger and grow male bits simply because of what Lavos's base gender may or may not be.
I'm pretty certain that the Schalla portion has nothing to do with who's dominent, it has to do with the fact that it was a female body that merged with Lavos.
3
History, Locations, and Artifacts / Who does Arris Dome belong to?
« on: December 30, 2005, 05:32:10 am »
You will note that in chronotrigger when you ask people of the ruined future about Truce, they've never heard of the place.
Politically speaking, (as opposed to geografically) we don't see any evidence tying the domes of the future to the nation of Guardia, and I think this is important because it allows for either Porre or Guardia to be dominent in 1005 without changing the future. I think its safe to assume that whatever nation is dominent in 1005 will likely suffer some cataclysmic events in the thousand three hundred years before the future we glimpse comes about.
Politically speaking, (as opposed to geografically) we don't see any evidence tying the domes of the future to the nation of Guardia, and I think this is important because it allows for either Porre or Guardia to be dominent in 1005 without changing the future. I think its safe to assume that whatever nation is dominent in 1005 will likely suffer some cataclysmic events in the thousand three hundred years before the future we glimpse comes about.
4
Chrono Trigger Modification / CT modding hardships (exits and music)
« on: December 28, 2005, 09:27:35 pm »
Ahh, I missed that part of the FAQ. I missed that on the first exit because I was replacing an exit already in use. Thanks.
Also, thanks for the music info. I'm not sure if it'll help me yet, but it definately gives me something to look at.
Also, thanks for the music info. I'm not sure if it'll help me yet, but it definately gives me something to look at.
5
Chrono Trigger Modification / CT modding hardships (exits and music)
« on: December 28, 2005, 04:14:35 pm »
So, using TF 2.00, I've created a new building directly below the Zenan bridge. To pass through from Guardia to Porre, you have to enter the building and purchase a visitors visa (well, thats the plan. It's only partially implimented so you can walk through without talking to the visa NPC). The problem I'm having is that the overworld exit to the building works just fine from guardias side, but I can't seem to get the one on Porre's side to work at all. Is there a problem with having two exits next to each other?
Myother question is one I'm sure has been asked many times but I can't seem to find mentioned anywhere. Is there any way to replace an song with an imported SPC, and if so, how would it be done and what are the limitations to consider (filesize, etc)?
EDIT: Because it never hurts to be more specific.
The music I would like to import comes from Radical Dreamers. I remember reading that FF6 music tends to be compatible with chronotrigger, is RD music? And if not, is there a way to go about (yuck) manually editing CT music?
Myother question is one I'm sure has been asked many times but I can't seem to find mentioned anywhere. Is there any way to replace an song with an imported SPC, and if so, how would it be done and what are the limitations to consider (filesize, etc)?
EDIT: Because it never hurts to be more specific.
The music I would like to import comes from Radical Dreamers. I remember reading that FF6 music tends to be compatible with chronotrigger, is RD music? And if not, is there a way to go about (yuck) manually editing CT music?
6
Time, Space, and Dimensions / That stupid grandfather paradox
« on: December 26, 2005, 08:50:30 pm »
Er, yeah. Marle. Teaches me not to post while half asleep, heh.
7
Time, Space, and Dimensions / That stupid grandfather paradox
« on: December 26, 2005, 05:40:30 am »
So, this is about the first incident of time travel in Chronotrigger, where the impossible grandfathers paradox occures.
I know this has been chased in circles, but I'm of the opinion that the Entity did it is a weak argument, if only because we don't realy know the nature of the Entity (and 'God did it' arguments halt any scientific inquiry, their very nature states that the science of it doesn't matter)
I'm hoping that by opening up discussion again, we can tease a little more out of this incident. Specifically, if we can isolate a the factor that caused her disappearence.
This may seem odd, but I'm curious if it might not have something to do with the pendant and the unorthodox method in which the first gate was opened.
In order to make up for some inconsistancies someone in another thread proposed that Marlie went back in time, replaced the queen, was eventualy discovered as a fraud and the real queen was saved. This would mean that going back to the present, Marlie could still be born and Crono could still see her go back in time. (I think I got that right).
The first gate was opened and possibly created by the pendant reacting with the teleporter. I *assume* that it was created at this point as opposed to simply opened because of the unlikelyness that Lucca just happened to develope a teleporter and place its pads on both sides of a closed, but present, gate. Add to that the pendant coming in contact with it and I think you'll see my point. So I will asume for the sake of this argument that the gate was actually created by the interaction between the pendant and the teleporter, not simply opened.
If that is the case, then this gate is actually unique from the other gates in the game.
Crono appears in the past, and meets with Nadia, who has been there for long enough to establish herself as Queen Leene. Marlie then disappears after coming into close contact with Crono, or possibly, with the pendant he holds (I think. I know they talk for a while, but I seem to remember her disappearence coinciding with when him standing closer to her. Others have speculated that it's actually Lucca's appearence).
I think her disappearence may have something to do with the nature of the first gate. Possibly, it didn't happen to Crono because at that point the gate was actually created and stabilized, instead of being in the process of forming.
After saving Leene, Marlie comes back and talks about where she was. This is (one of) the point where my idea falls apart, because her return coincides with saving Leene (though again, time delayed until Crono is present).
So, all of this definately flawed, but I'm hoping it can atleast spark some new ideas on the subject.
I know this has been chased in circles, but I'm of the opinion that the Entity did it is a weak argument, if only because we don't realy know the nature of the Entity (and 'God did it' arguments halt any scientific inquiry, their very nature states that the science of it doesn't matter)
I'm hoping that by opening up discussion again, we can tease a little more out of this incident. Specifically, if we can isolate a the factor that caused her disappearence.
This may seem odd, but I'm curious if it might not have something to do with the pendant and the unorthodox method in which the first gate was opened.
In order to make up for some inconsistancies someone in another thread proposed that Marlie went back in time, replaced the queen, was eventualy discovered as a fraud and the real queen was saved. This would mean that going back to the present, Marlie could still be born and Crono could still see her go back in time. (I think I got that right).
The first gate was opened and possibly created by the pendant reacting with the teleporter. I *assume* that it was created at this point as opposed to simply opened because of the unlikelyness that Lucca just happened to develope a teleporter and place its pads on both sides of a closed, but present, gate. Add to that the pendant coming in contact with it and I think you'll see my point. So I will asume for the sake of this argument that the gate was actually created by the interaction between the pendant and the teleporter, not simply opened.
If that is the case, then this gate is actually unique from the other gates in the game.
Crono appears in the past, and meets with Nadia, who has been there for long enough to establish herself as Queen Leene. Marlie then disappears after coming into close contact with Crono, or possibly, with the pendant he holds (I think. I know they talk for a while, but I seem to remember her disappearence coinciding with when him standing closer to her. Others have speculated that it's actually Lucca's appearence).
I think her disappearence may have something to do with the nature of the first gate. Possibly, it didn't happen to Crono because at that point the gate was actually created and stabilized, instead of being in the process of forming.
After saving Leene, Marlie comes back and talks about where she was. This is (one of) the point where my idea falls apart, because her return coincides with saving Leene (though again, time delayed until Crono is present).
So, all of this definately flawed, but I'm hoping it can atleast spark some new ideas on the subject.
8
Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Was Lavos Trying to Shaft Itself?!
« on: December 26, 2005, 05:00:06 am »
I have always consitered Lavos to be sentient, however I do have to disagree with this argument.
It seems to me as though this argument discounts entirely the theory of evolution, which requires sentience to spring from insentience. (Note: I'm not trying to start a science vs religion debate here on the validity of evolution. However, it is a reocurring theme in the chrono series.)
Quote
For one thing, insentient beings can't produce sentient offspring. Clearly, for humans to gain intelligence from something like the Frozen Flame would mean that the Frozen Flame is itself sentient, and if the Frozen Flame is sentient, the source from which it came, Lavos, would have to be sentient, too.
It seems to me as though this argument discounts entirely the theory of evolution, which requires sentience to spring from insentience. (Note: I'm not trying to start a science vs religion debate here on the validity of evolution. However, it is a reocurring theme in the chrono series.)
9
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Alternative Theory on the Plot of CC in relation to CT
« on: December 23, 2005, 05:14:35 am »Quote
How would Porre amas an army of magic wielding fighters, when magic users are all but extinct and there is no forseeable way for these people to have potential magic ablities unlocked? And don't throw that outside the flow of time help, because I would find it really hard to believe that Spekkio would travel to 1000 A.D. and unlock an armys worth of magical potential.
That was a slip on my part. When I said magic, I ment element.
As for Luminair is powerful, etc. etc., thats the only reason I brought up the battle system. You cant say it would kill thousands in minutes because we've only seen its affect within the confines of a battle engine.
10
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Alternative Theory on the Plot of CC in relation to CT
« on: December 19, 2005, 06:22:49 am »
Just a quick not on the "How many people can Crono fight at once and survive" bit.
Saying that Crono can fight 20 people himself may be a bit misleading.
First, you have to consider their power relative to Crono's. We can assume that they aren't level 1 townsfolk. They are likely magic weilding, as use of the elements is typically considered the catalyst to Porre's victory.
Then you have to consider, are they all lining up to be fought one at a time? Or are they attacking at once, possibly using short range, long range, or a combination of both kinds of attacks.
While the battle system demonstrated 3 people taking on the power of Lavos and surviving, that is not the equivilent of taking on 20 people. I think 20 decently leveled people in one battle, would be a bit of a challange for Crono. Imagine a normal Chrono Trigger battle, only with 20 decently leveled magic casting enemies instead of two or three, and with one party member instead of three and think about how much of a pain that would be to play through.
The response I expect to get is that the battle mechanics are for gameplay and therefore cannot be seen as a true representation of how a battle would really turn out. That is exactly the point I'm trying to make. We really don't see anything aside from story that we can use to determine his sucess or failure under such curcomstances. And story seems to point heavily in the direction of the latter.
EDIT: Just wanted to point out, I'm not saying that he died. Just that I don't think the idea of Guardia falling despite its high powered defenders is as hard to swallow as it might seem at first.
Saying that Crono can fight 20 people himself may be a bit misleading.
First, you have to consider their power relative to Crono's. We can assume that they aren't level 1 townsfolk. They are likely magic weilding, as use of the elements is typically considered the catalyst to Porre's victory.
Then you have to consider, are they all lining up to be fought one at a time? Or are they attacking at once, possibly using short range, long range, or a combination of both kinds of attacks.
While the battle system demonstrated 3 people taking on the power of Lavos and surviving, that is not the equivilent of taking on 20 people. I think 20 decently leveled people in one battle, would be a bit of a challange for Crono. Imagine a normal Chrono Trigger battle, only with 20 decently leveled magic casting enemies instead of two or three, and with one party member instead of three and think about how much of a pain that would be to play through.
The response I expect to get is that the battle mechanics are for gameplay and therefore cannot be seen as a true representation of how a battle would really turn out. That is exactly the point I'm trying to make. We really don't see anything aside from story that we can use to determine his sucess or failure under such curcomstances. And story seems to point heavily in the direction of the latter.
EDIT: Just wanted to point out, I'm not saying that he died. Just that I don't think the idea of Guardia falling despite its high powered defenders is as hard to swallow as it might seem at first.
11
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Serge/'The Chrono Trigger' and fate (not FATE)
« on: May 21, 2005, 02:55:21 pm »
Why would a race of reptites/dragonians who was very much in touch with their planet summon Lavos to destroy it and themselves to scrap a few humans?
I think it plays out much better if you assume Azala didn't summon him.
I think it plays out much better if you assume Azala didn't summon him.
12
Characters, Plot, and Themes / The "Chrono Trigger"
« on: May 18, 2005, 12:27:36 am »
The Time Egg in CC isn't the primary catylist in the game, Serge is. So in this instance, he's the true chronotrigger, as he is the one that triggers the events, not the time egg.
13
Characters, Plot, and Themes / Serge = Janus Theory
« on: May 17, 2005, 10:04:44 pm »
Christianity and Judaism have a story about how God made man from the dust of the ground. Because of this, "Dust to dust" is a commonly heard at funerals.
Arni village talks about life coming from the sea. It seems to me that "What came from the sea has returned to the sea", or whatever the varian on that was, is simply another form of dust to dust.
Someone said they think serge is Janus. Someone else refuted that. Then it was said he's Janus reincarnated. Someone pointed out that the innate is completely wrong for that. Then it was said that that wouldn't matter if he were reincarnated...
That argument is entirely circular. it states that He's Janus simply because that would be nifty, and that anythig contradcting that in the story doesnt mater because its a reincarnation so he can be very different... but then why should he be consitered Janus? It doesnt work if every point denying the possibility is thrown away but every point affirming it (blue hair and an amulet) is accepted as evidence.
(I'm not attacking anyone here. It just seems like the argument is a bit falacious.)
IF it was Janus reincarnated, its with more than enough differences for him to be an entirely diferent person and therefor, from a practical standpoint, the speculation seems like pointless complication.
Arni village talks about life coming from the sea. It seems to me that "What came from the sea has returned to the sea", or whatever the varian on that was, is simply another form of dust to dust.
Someone said they think serge is Janus. Someone else refuted that. Then it was said he's Janus reincarnated. Someone pointed out that the innate is completely wrong for that. Then it was said that that wouldn't matter if he were reincarnated...
That argument is entirely circular. it states that He's Janus simply because that would be nifty, and that anythig contradcting that in the story doesnt mater because its a reincarnation so he can be very different... but then why should he be consitered Janus? It doesnt work if every point denying the possibility is thrown away but every point affirming it (blue hair and an amulet) is accepted as evidence.
(I'm not attacking anyone here. It just seems like the argument is a bit falacious.)
IF it was Janus reincarnated, its with more than enough differences for him to be an entirely diferent person and therefor, from a practical standpoint, the speculation seems like pointless complication.
14
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Questions I'm still a bit fuzzy on
« on: October 16, 2004, 02:45:58 pm »
I had a couple questions that have already been answered I'm sure, but it can be really hard for me to find consise replies in the threads, but I was a little confused about the conclusions reached.. Still they're important questions so I thought I'd put them in the same thread.
1) Lavos (Pocket Demension) -
When it was destroyed was it destroyed from all time? If so, what affect does that have on our past and future timeline? Does time still record his emergences into our timeline?
2) (same as 1) Time Devourer -
When it was destroyed, was it destroyed from all time? If so, what affect does that have on the past timeline?
3) More Time Travelers Immunity/Time Bastard-
Say a man (Traveler A) went back in time 1000 years and changed the past. Afterwhich he returns to his present time, replacing his new self (the one changed by history) on the timeline. Then someone from his distant future (Traveler B) sees that time could have progressed differently if that never happened. Traveler B goes back in time and kills Traveler A while he's still in the past, before he can make the changes. Which version of history will Traveler A (present time) record? Will he revert back to the 'natural' Traveler A, the result of the current timeline's history? Or would he still be replaced by the original Traveler A, even though that one was killed in the past by Traveler B.
Gah, that last one was really hard for me to explain. Anyway, thats all I have. Thanks
1) Lavos (Pocket Demension) -
When it was destroyed was it destroyed from all time? If so, what affect does that have on our past and future timeline? Does time still record his emergences into our timeline?
2) (same as 1) Time Devourer -
When it was destroyed, was it destroyed from all time? If so, what affect does that have on the past timeline?
3) More Time Travelers Immunity/Time Bastard-
Say a man (Traveler A) went back in time 1000 years and changed the past. Afterwhich he returns to his present time, replacing his new self (the one changed by history) on the timeline. Then someone from his distant future (Traveler B) sees that time could have progressed differently if that never happened. Traveler B goes back in time and kills Traveler A while he's still in the past, before he can make the changes. Which version of history will Traveler A (present time) record? Will he revert back to the 'natural' Traveler A, the result of the current timeline's history? Or would he still be replaced by the original Traveler A, even though that one was killed in the past by Traveler B.
Gah, that last one was really hard for me to explain. Anyway, thats all I have. Thanks
15
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Experimenting with the time gates.
« on: October 13, 2004, 02:12:45 am »Quote
consider Robo's perspective watching the Gate at Truce (he got finished planting early): He watches, the gate stays there for 400 years, and is then overwritten by the 1000 AD gate. He goes off and defeats Lavos (who needs Crono?), goes back to 1000 AD, and the gate closes. All gates close at this time-error.
Just an interesting side note. That could explain why Robo is the one that theorizes the existance of an Entity.