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Messages - Philosopher1701

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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Serge - Assassin of Time
« on: August 07, 2009, 06:01:36 pm »
I created a similar thread a very long time ago, and I want to revive the discussion. How does Serge's existence lead to Home World's destruction? Why is the Dead Sea so screwed up ( a full-blown time freeze), and how does it relate to Serge? Ultimately, why is Serge so important? Belthasar essentially created him, but could he have chosen someone else? Why did it have to be Serge?

What exactly are the Dimensional Vortices? I assume that they were created because of the Dream Devourer's existence, but how would that be?

How did Dalton end up inside the 1000 AD dimensional vortex?

Why is the Dream Devourer larger than the Time Devourer?

Is Serge somehow connected to Magus now? I had an old theory that Serge was actually a reincarnation of Janus, and Magus mentions something about some aspect of himself surviving and creating a greater meaning for his situation. Guile never realizes who he really is, so I'm not sure if Magus was necessarily referring to himself.

Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Lavos - The Humanoid Alien
« on: March 22, 2009, 03:43:20 am »
It seems that the central core of Lavos is a humanoid being.

What does this mean? And is it possible that the shell is just a "spaceship", and that the actual Lavos is the alien inside the "ship"?

This thread is quite old, but I wanted to revive the discussion. I'm interested in what people have to say about my comparison between Xenogears and the Chrono series.

And I just wanted to add one other note to my analysis: Belthasar has a new rival when it comes to grand schemes - Wilhelm from Xenosaga, a series developed by members of the Chrono team.  :D

Hey guys, it's been a long time since I've been here, and I've come back because of the upcoming Chrono Trigger DS release!

So I'm curious: What exactly are Chrono Crisis and CT: Crimson Echoes? It seems that they are completely new games developed by fans. Can someone offer an explanation?

And I disagree with the Chrono series being about overcoming God. It might be, but it's only a side-effect, a secondary theme.

Maybe I was going a little far there.  :)

But the story does have humanistic themes. That whole biblical allegory interpretation, while interesting (and Xenogears had many Judeo-Christian references), doesn't hold up very well when you see some of the more obvious themes.

I didn't really understand this in the article. Chronopolis never existed in Home World's timeline, so why would it exist in place of the Sea of Eden? There wasn't a Time Crash in Home World.

I know this has been addressed in the past, but I'm curious to know if any other theories have been formulated besides the "Armageddon-Branch" Theory.

I forgot to mention another similarity. The Frozen Flame is similar to the Monolith from 2001: A Space Odyssey. Both influenced human evolution. The Zohar from Xenogears is monolith-shaped, and Perfect Works (the official guide to the Xenogears universe) says the eye of the Zohar has existed since the origin of the universe, and suggests that it may have created life itself. The Frozen Flame and the Zohar somewhat resemble the Monolith's function and mystery. Notice the name of the company the Chrono/Xenogears team formed after they left Squaresoft: Monolith Soft. Given the nature of Xenogears and their flagship series Xenosaga, I believe the company's name was inspired by the Zohar's similarity to the Monolith of 2001: A Space Odyssey.

*Lost Storyline from Ultimania - Described by the Compendium*

The story above may not be the plot as originally intended for Chrono Cross. Signs point to another overaching storyline that involved Serge binding with the Time Devourer itself; in this scenario, Serge, if he did not defeat the Time Devourer with the Chrono Cross, would ultimately bind with it and cause the Devourer to mature, granting him the power to consume space-time. Chrono Cross Ultimania mainly supports this notion, claiming that the Arbiter of the Frozen Flame must mediate between his fellow lifeforms and Lavos, or else he will inevitably bind with the creature and spell destruction for other humans. Ultimania also postulates that Schala was an Arbiter of the Frozen Flame while it existed in Zeal, and that is how she came to bind with Lavos. Apparently, the Time Devourer needed enough power before it could reach maturity, and Serge would have been the final piece in the puzzle. Quotes in the game also seem to hint at this possibility; three come to mind specifically. A demi-human in Marbule states that "anyone who touches that Flame will become a different being." Lynx, at Viper Manor, warns Serge that "there shall be a deep enmity between you and the world" once destruction occurs. Lastly, Belthasar notes that the Arbiter will gain "extraodinary binding with the new seed of destruction, the Devourer of Time." However, this storyline is not directly stated or implied in Chrono Cross, and neither has series creator Masato Kato confirmed it himself. For the time being, it remains speculation made by the Ultimania authors. Considering that in the same book, they contradict other canon (such as stating the Prometheus Circuit is not Robo, when Masato Kato noted that the circuit is Robo), the veracity of Ultimania is arguable.

Spoilers for Xenogears

Okay, this is why I think the interpretation of the story is correct. For those who have played Xenogears, you should have noticed many similarities to the plots of Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross. I think all three games were developed by the same team, and Masato Kato even wrote the script for Xenogears. In Xenogears, there is a being named Deus, who is very similar to Lavos. Both landed on a planet and "created" humans and used human evolution to their advantage. What I'm about to explain fits more appropriately with the Time Devourer, though. According to Ultimania, the TD needs to bind with Schala and Serge to complete it's development. Only then would it become a complete Time Devourer. The TD already has Schala, it just needs Serge since he is the Arbiter of the Frozen Flame. He became the Arbiter when he made contact with it, and he's been granted special powers directly from Lavos. Serge is the final piece the TD needs to devour all space-time. Also, Kid was created when Schala heard the cries of Serge across time. Kid was a part of Schala, and her purpose was to guide Serge in his quest to destroy the TD and liberate Schala. And when Lavos landed on the planet, the Frozen Flame was separated from it. This is a magical object that is considered to be the ultimate treasure, and is vital to the TD's development.

Now for Xenogears. Fei/Abel is known as the Contact because he made contact with the Zohar, an engine that contained the Wave Existence. The WE was essentially God, thus the Zohar contained a god-like power. The Zohar is similar to the Frozen Flame. It is the most powerful object in our universe. The WE wished to break free of its confinement, so when Abel made contact with the Zohar, the WE granted its power to Abel, and since Abel was a child and desired his mother, the WE created Elly to be Abel's mother-figure and placed its will into her. With the WE's will, Elly's purpose was to guide Abel and all of his incarnations in his quest to destroy Deus and liberate the WE. Now, Deus needs the best humans possible to complete its restoration process. Humans are "parts" for Deus. However, it also needs the Contact (Fei) and the Antitype (Elly), to regain the power of the WE, which is contained within the Zohar and is the source of its power. The Zohar and other vital parts of Deus were separated from it when it fell onto the planet, and it must retrieve these parts. Deus binds with Elly, the will of the WE. To complete its resurrection, it needs to bind with the Contact (Fei). The Contact contains the power of the WE, making the Contact something like a god. If the Contact is binded with Deus, Deus will evolve into its full potential and leave the planet to fulfill it true mission (which isn't important here, and is a mystery anyway).

Both Serge and Fei, as Arbiter and Contact, destroy the Time Devourer/Deus with the guidance of Kid/Elly (the will of Schala/Wave Existence) and liberate Schala/Wave Existence. Schala was a part of the Time Devourer, and the Wave Existence was a part of Deus, and both sought to liberate themselves from their captors. Both had help too. Belthasar orchestrated Schala's liberation. Karellen orchestrated the Wave Existence's liberation. Yet, they had very different agendas. Belthasar's ideals were noble. Karellen's ideals were misguided.

And one more interesting similarity. The Contact and Antitype were destined to reincarnate until Deus was destroyed. Every time they meet though, they don't realize who they are and don't recognize each other. In the ambiguous ending of Chrono Cross, it is suggested that Serge and Schala will reincarnate in different time periods until they find each other, yet they may not recognize each other.

Then there is the theme of overcoming God. It's more obvious in Xenogears, but the Chrono series depicts Lavos as a god that humans must reject. The triumph of humanism over theism.

So this is why I think the Lost Storyline of Chrono Cross is the true interpretation. What are your thoughts on this subject?

What were Chrono Trigger's plot holes?

General Discussion / Re: Xenosaga: Episode I - Der Wille zur Macht
« on: June 28, 2006, 02:59:08 pm »
Ahh, Xenosaga I.  Still the best game I ever watched.

Although, if it was the presentation you liked the most, Philosopher1701, prepare to experience a Xenogears disc 2 level of disappointment.  Pretty much all the aspects that made Ep1 awesome were watered down or changed entirety for Ep2.  Shion and KOS-MOS obtain a level of OOC-ness that not even fan fiction would dare to reach, MOMO's cuteness is decreased by 75% which just hurt as she was my favorite character (thankfully though, her numerous panty shots have been removed.  I mean really, I counted 50 of them in the first game before I quite counting, being quite disgusted with myself), and Jin and Caanan are damn near irrelevant (save for two scenes), but they’re constantly hanging around.  Fortunately Jr, Ziggy, and chaos are still true to form.  Battle system is completely different, faster in some ways, painfully slow in others.  But hey, at least there are combo attacks.  I take issue with the fact that my "all girl team of death" (Shion, MOMO and KOS-MOS) party is seriously crippled due to the new system limiting Shion and MOMO's power.  They still have their strengths, to be sure, but its just not the same.

The plot does thicken considerably though, and it remains one of the best RPG plots of this generation.

Well, though gameplay on disc 2 of Xenogears was almost non-existent, I was very satisfied with the story.

So, as long as Episode II still does justice to the overall Xenosaga story, I should be fine. I'm one of those people who care more about story than anything else, so if Episode II lacks something, hopefully it won't be story.

P.S. - Completely irrelevant, but I just wanted to point out that my favorite character is chaos.  :D

General Discussion / Xenosaga: Episode I - Der Wille zur Macht
« on: June 26, 2006, 09:05:24 pm »
I finished XS: Episode I yesterday.

What a wonderful game (or movie?). What else should I have expected from the guys behind the Chrono series and Xenogears (which is my favorite game of all time). The presentation was incredible, the best I've ever seen in a video game, with Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater being the only rival.

I enjoyed the experience so much that I'm going to go out and buy XS: Episode II - Jenseits von Gut und Bose later today. I can't wait!

« on: April 25, 2006, 06:00:08 pm »
I may be able to go. My cousin will be having a high school graduation party, and we're going to use that to convince our parents to let us hang out in a different state.  8)

And it isn't just Mr. Mitsuda:

*From Play Sympony's Official Site*

- Nobuo Uematsu (FINAL FANTASY [R])
- Yasunori Mitsuda (CHRONO TRIGGER [TM] / CHRONO CROSS [TM])
- Yuzo Koshiro (SONIC THE HEDGEHOG [R])
- Akira Yamaoka (SILENT HILL [R])
- Marty O'Donnell (HALO [TM])
- Takenobu Mitsuyoshi (SHENMUE [TM])
- Jason Hayes (WORLD OF WARCRAFT [R])

- Arnie Roth (Conductor and Music Director of PLAY!)
- Rony Barrak (Percussionist)

and others.

Edit: It's official. I'm going.

I've bought my ticket. The Meet and Greet event was sold out though, which was a major disappointment because I would have loved to have met Nobuo Uematsu and Yasunori Mitsuda. At least I'll get to see the concert, and possibly get a few pictures of the man himself (Mr. Mitsuda). :)

General Discussion / PLAY! Concert Tour - Yasunori Mitsuda in Chicago
« on: March 15, 2006, 09:42:33 pm »

I wish I could go...... But it's on a school day, and in a different state.  :(

If anyone can go, please do! And bring a camera or something.

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