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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: TTI/TB/TE Reformation Idea Collection
« on: September 25, 2009, 08:42:52 pm »
Upon review of TTI - it seems to be consistent with elastic time, so the only reasons that I see for considering Time Reintegration are
1) To help resolve the Marle Paradox, whose grandfather-paradox in-game explanation is clearly inconsistent with TTI.
2) To avoid time-traveling Robo and Doan showing up in a 2300 where they have no past. I do not think they would be time-bastarded out of existence, nor would their happy versions vanish, should they exist. Elastic time largely removes the need for the Time Bastard theory, and I don't have a problem with a few duplicates wandering around indefinitely if it takes a temporal change on a massive scale to create them.
My previous post covers my feelings about 1), and 2) does not seem to be such a terrible case that it violates Theme is Supreme the same way that, say, Robo being brutally shunted to the DBT does.
PS - The guard in 600AD does indeed appear to possess memories relating to both timelines, exactly as Time Reintegration would suggest. However, considering the extremely minor impact of this character, and the large number of other cases where we should expect to witness similar effects, I have to think this is another developer oversight - or, possibly, that the guard is dyslexic and was thinking of the hallway on the far side of the castle that is a mirror image of the one where he is standing.
1) To help resolve the Marle Paradox, whose grandfather-paradox in-game explanation is clearly inconsistent with TTI.
2) To avoid time-traveling Robo and Doan showing up in a 2300 where they have no past. I do not think they would be time-bastarded out of existence, nor would their happy versions vanish, should they exist. Elastic time largely removes the need for the Time Bastard theory, and I don't have a problem with a few duplicates wandering around indefinitely if it takes a temporal change on a massive scale to create them.
My previous post covers my feelings about 1), and 2) does not seem to be such a terrible case that it violates Theme is Supreme the same way that, say, Robo being brutally shunted to the DBT does.
PS - The guard in 600AD does indeed appear to possess memories relating to both timelines, exactly as Time Reintegration would suggest. However, considering the extremely minor impact of this character, and the large number of other cases where we should expect to witness similar effects, I have to think this is another developer oversight - or, possibly, that the guard is dyslexic and was thinking of the hallway on the far side of the castle that is a mirror image of the one where he is standing.
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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: TTI/TB/TE Reformation Idea Collection
« on: September 25, 2009, 07:04:42 pm »
Hello all, I thought this would be as good a time as any to jump in after lurking for about 2 years. 
Thought: I enjoyed your elastic-time hypothesis quite a bit, and I'd love to see some of the other Gurus weigh in. I especially the central tenant of Theme is Supreme - it seems to me that this is what I have been missing in a lot of Compendium theories over the years. Time Indexing also seems to work quite well.
I guess it would not be a proper post without a rebuttal, however, so here goes:
1)I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the way you let Crono and Lucca retain their memories of Marle after her disappearance in the Marle Paradox. (and indeed the whole Time Reintegration idea) Conservation of information is a very important quantum phenomenon, but I am skeptical about its relevance to the CT universe and time travel in specific. Your Reintegration concept would seem to imply that, at the point of her disappearance, Lucca and Crono should gain memories of lives where Marle never existed in addition to the ones that they currently posses. In these memories, both Crono and Lucca would need a new reason to separately travel back in time to 600AD, as well as a new method of doing so, lacking Marle's pendant. This sounds like a tall order for elastic time, given the 400 year gap it has to work with. (not to mention that neither Crono or Lucca ever mention this 'alternate beginning')
To quote Zeality, from http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,6596.60.html
I wouldn't sweat the Marle Paradox too much for your elastic time theory: there is a decent case for developer oversight. If Entity theories don't bother you, elastic time is perfectly consistent with an outside intervention removing Marle in order to engineer Leene's rescue and prevent a Temporal Distortion Wave.
2) I've gotta say, having duplicate memories appear in peoples heads as a result of time travel seems to be a bit heavy-handed, primarily because it gives special status to sentient memory over, for example, information written in a book. (although it is great in that it allows for character continuity, ie. Robo in the future, and Theme IS supreme...) I also understand we need to invoke TTI or SOMETHING to replace it, or we end up with causality loops: Team Crono cannot learn about Lavos in 2300AD and decide to defeat him if a Time Distortion Wave starting in 1999AD has sent that future to the DBT. I have an idea or two, but I should go review TTI first.
Cheers!
Thought: I enjoyed your elastic-time hypothesis quite a bit, and I'd love to see some of the other Gurus weigh in. I especially the central tenant of Theme is Supreme - it seems to me that this is what I have been missing in a lot of Compendium theories over the years. Time Indexing also seems to work quite well.
I guess it would not be a proper post without a rebuttal, however, so here goes:
1)I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the way you let Crono and Lucca retain their memories of Marle after her disappearance in the Marle Paradox. (and indeed the whole Time Reintegration idea) Conservation of information is a very important quantum phenomenon, but I am skeptical about its relevance to the CT universe and time travel in specific. Your Reintegration concept would seem to imply that, at the point of her disappearance, Lucca and Crono should gain memories of lives where Marle never existed in addition to the ones that they currently posses. In these memories, both Crono and Lucca would need a new reason to separately travel back in time to 600AD, as well as a new method of doing so, lacking Marle's pendant. This sounds like a tall order for elastic time, given the 400 year gap it has to work with. (not to mention that neither Crono or Lucca ever mention this 'alternate beginning')
To quote Zeality, from http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,6596.60.html
Quote
We know that Yuji Horii made that scenario, and we also know that Yuji Horii likes causal loops and the grandfather paradox. This means that it's a total developer oversight, because Kato's the one in charge, and Kato wrote the other parts of the series that supported TTI and TB.and
Quote
But the Marle Paradox is still in the Plot Inconsistencies page, because we still recognize that the Entity solution doesn't work -- and that's because it's a developer oversight thanks to Yuji Horii's ideas about time fiction.
I wouldn't sweat the Marle Paradox too much for your elastic time theory: there is a decent case for developer oversight. If Entity theories don't bother you, elastic time is perfectly consistent with an outside intervention removing Marle in order to engineer Leene's rescue and prevent a Temporal Distortion Wave.
2) I've gotta say, having duplicate memories appear in peoples heads as a result of time travel seems to be a bit heavy-handed, primarily because it gives special status to sentient memory over, for example, information written in a book. (although it is great in that it allows for character continuity, ie. Robo in the future, and Theme IS supreme...) I also understand we need to invoke TTI or SOMETHING to replace it, or we end up with causality loops: Team Crono cannot learn about Lavos in 2300AD and decide to defeat him if a Time Distortion Wave starting in 1999AD has sent that future to the DBT. I have an idea or two, but I should go review TTI first.
Cheers!
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