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Chrono Trigger DS Analysis / Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« on: January 09, 2009, 03:32:19 pm »
At least 'twas a theory posted around here. It's even mentioned in the Encyclopedia, if I remember correctly.
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General Discussion / Re: Do they even work for Square any more?
« on: January 05, 2009, 06:50:41 pm »
Uhm, I don't think so. Practically all of the Cross' staff is working at Square or is actually freelancer (and thus can be recruited again). If you only think about it, more of the half of FFXI's staff is the original Cross' staff...
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General Discussion / Re: O.o
« on: January 05, 2009, 06:33:15 pm »
For me, it's Alexi Laiho. Herman Li, along with his Dragonforce companions, seems more fond on drinking and doing stupid things than playing some shit of music.
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=2PtsLFiob0o (watch around 0:45)
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=QqD6Ze8D5wg (I... Don't have words for this video o_O)
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=2PtsLFiob0o (watch around 0:45)
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=QqD6Ze8D5wg (I... Don't have words for this video o_O)
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General Discussion / Re: Do they even work for Square any more?
« on: January 05, 2009, 06:02:45 pm »
As far as I know, Kato is now a freelancer scenario writer and still occasionally works with Square (currently, he's writing three more expansions for Final Fantasy XI). Mitsuda too has become a freelancer, but he's more into alternative things like the "Kirite" project with Kato himself.
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Chrono Trigger DS Analysis / Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« on: January 05, 2009, 05:31:20 pm »But they are not saying that the Crono who fights the DD is the same that fought Lavos. Isn't that simple to understand?
That. And, moreover, whoever is the Crono we're talking about, he can fight BOTH Lavos AND Dream Devourer, meaning that BOTH are alive.
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: What ever happend to Melchior? Potentional spoilers!
« on: January 05, 2009, 05:18:40 pm »
Melchior surely died of alcohol overdose after Crono and Marle's wedding. And the mastermind behind that is no one other than Lucca, who exchanged the content of Melchior's bottle from wine to pure, 96-degree alcohol.
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Chrono Trigger DS European Release Date
« on: January 05, 2009, 01:24:48 pm »I bet a billion Monopoly dollars that the EUR version won't have the italian language. Not that I care particularly, but if a game here is released in English it won't have even 1/10 of the glory it deserves (just like what happened to The World Ends With You).
Incidentally, what language would be best for a EUR release of a game to get the most glory, if not English, in your opinion?
I, ehm, kinda forgot a word o.O I intended "if a game here is released ONLY in English it won't have even 1/10 of the glory it deserves". In Italy games like Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Ring of Fates and The World Ends With You had near-zero sales because they were only in English.
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Chrono Trigger DS Analysis / Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« on: January 04, 2009, 10:35:39 am »
Well, it's a bit too easy to explain something using the phrase "it's a gameplay feature". One could say that, in reality, Crono and co. never battled Lavos, and that the final battle it's only a gameplay feature (it's a nonsense, just to show how that phrase could theoretically explain every situation in the game). And, plus, there's absolutely no evidence that the DD is defeated after Lavos. One can finish the three Vortexes and then go battle Lavos in 1999 AD, which means that the alien parasite is alive and well. The game's developers could make the Time's Eclipse accessible only in a New Game +, like what they did with Ozzie & Co. in Chrono Cross: we all know that the extra events in a New Game +, such as the alternate endings, are considered non-canon. If they made that one can load back the file in which they defeated Lavos and still play both the Lavos' and DD's battles, there is a significance (at least in my humble opinion).
Schala could as well have erased the memories of everyone, thus eliminating the need of a more elaborate theory on who really is the Magus in Time's Eclipse. We know from the final dialogue in Cross that she has the power to do that. But such a dialogue is absent from the afterbattle with the DD in Trigger DS (i.e. she doesn't say a word about that), and moreover we don't even know if Schala actually erased Eclipse Magus' memories (it seems to me that he erased them himself). But, more importantly, Schala doesn't have something that we learned (from a certain blue-dressed attorney) is crucial in doing something "evil" such as erasing everyone's memories: motive. Why the Zeal princess had to make Crono and co. forget about the Dream Devourer is still understandable (she says that even their power isn't enough to save her, and basically tells them not to try anymore to stop the DD), but why the hell she makes them forget about the DVs and Dalton? If she wishes their death, she could have killed them by herself. She won't gain anything from the Rise of Porre anyway.
Schala could as well have erased the memories of everyone, thus eliminating the need of a more elaborate theory on who really is the Magus in Time's Eclipse. We know from the final dialogue in Cross that she has the power to do that. But such a dialogue is absent from the afterbattle with the DD in Trigger DS (i.e. she doesn't say a word about that), and moreover we don't even know if Schala actually erased Eclipse Magus' memories (it seems to me that he erased them himself). But, more importantly, Schala doesn't have something that we learned (from a certain blue-dressed attorney) is crucial in doing something "evil" such as erasing everyone's memories: motive. Why the Zeal princess had to make Crono and co. forget about the Dream Devourer is still understandable (she says that even their power isn't enough to save her, and basically tells them not to try anymore to stop the DD), but why the hell she makes them forget about the DVs and Dalton? If she wishes their death, she could have killed them by herself. She won't gain anything from the Rise of Porre anyway.
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Chrono Trigger DS European Release Date
« on: January 03, 2009, 08:57:59 pm »
I bet a billion Monopoly dollars that the EUR version won't have the italian language. Not that I care particularly, but if a game here is released in English it won't have even 1/10 of the glory it deserves (just like what happened to The World Ends With You).
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Chrono Trigger DS Analysis / Re: Chrono Trigger DS Analysis HQ (Spoiler Spoiler, of course)
« on: January 03, 2009, 03:50:13 pm »
Personally, I agree with what Eske said a couple of pages ago about the identity of Eclipse Magus. I can't quote it because I don't retrieve the original post xD
In a schematic view:
1) Crono and his happy crew (including* a Magus that we'll call "Party Magus") go and defeat Lavos. The player gets the happy ending, Crono marries Marle, Lucca discovers Kid, Frog gets his human form back, etc etc etc, and Party Magus goes back to 12000 BC in order to search for Schala. The player unlocks the Dimensional Vortexes.
*note: we don't really have to think about nothing if we don't have saved Magus on North Peak. The canon says that Magus is alive and well at the end of Chrono Trigger, and that he undoubtfully joined Crono's party. Since here we're discussing the canon, we can safely assume that Magus IS in the party.
Let's think about it. Why do these Vortexes open? We only know that the DVs are, somehow, connected with the Time's Eclipse (or the Darkness Beyond Time, as you wish to call it). Maybe the three clones REALLY are the Ghost Children, or something like that. But let's stick to some known facts: when the DVs open, SURELY Lavos is already in the DBT assimilating Schala and forming the Dream Devourer. Since we already know that the DBT is a place, well, away from every timeline and every dimension, we can safely assume that once Lavos is defeated in one savegame we can find the Dream Devourer in every dimension- i.e. in EVERY other savegame originated from that one. The DVs may be a gameplay-only requirement. So, we can theorize that if someone else (that isn't Crono's party) want to access the Time's Eclipse, that someone doesn't have to pass through the three DVs.
Another thing: apart from defeating the Dream Devourer, the only way to truly finish the game is defeating Lavos. So, another thing we can theorize is that once Lavos/Dream Devourer is beaten, Crono and friends are "off duty" and never do a battle again (maybe for the exception of the Guardia battle that determines the Rise of Porre). What I'm saying here is this: if we defeat Lavos in a savegame, and then we load back that same savegame, we must think that THAT IS ANOTHER DIMENSION, and that party is another party with another Crono, another Lucca etc. Our "view" of every dimension basically finishes when we defeat Lavos. This thing is fundamental. We can proceed =D
2) Party Magus, while searching for Schala, learns that she's being held captive by Lavos in the DBT and somehow finds a way to get to this place. So, Party Magus enters the DBT (or Time's Eclipse).
~MEANWHILE~
3) Our happy player loads back the savegame in which he defeated Lavos, thus watching another dimension. He finishes the three DVs and goes to the Time's Eclipse.
Guess who's there? Eclipse Magus! But, if you've followed my line, we know that this Eclipse Magus is really our "old" Party Magus! Then, the battle rages: Eclipse/Old Party Magus gets his sorry ass beaten, the alternate-dimension-Crono's party wins but they somehow get their sorry ass equally beaten. Schala teleports all the people out of the Time's Eclipse, probably erasing the memories of Old Party Magus (I don't understand if his memories are erased by himself, actually). She doesn't erase the memories of the alternate-dimension-party: in fact, they were sent to the right time, and when (after some years) Porre+Dalton arrives, the party beats the crap out of them and Guardia reigns.
The history which we witnessed in Chrono Cross (where Porre wins over Guardia, etc.) is simply the history of the Original dimension (those events listed at number 1). Original-dimension-party didn't go to the Dimensional Vortexes at all, thus they didn't know about Dalton and Porre's attack, and thus here's how the Fall of Guardia happened. I think it's a good way to explain the new things in Trigger DS and accept them into canon without having to redo all the theories about the Fall of Guardia and such.
Uhm, well... I think a sort of mini-map can be of help.
In a schematic view:
1) Crono and his happy crew (including* a Magus that we'll call "Party Magus") go and defeat Lavos. The player gets the happy ending, Crono marries Marle, Lucca discovers Kid, Frog gets his human form back, etc etc etc, and Party Magus goes back to 12000 BC in order to search for Schala. The player unlocks the Dimensional Vortexes.
*note: we don't really have to think about nothing if we don't have saved Magus on North Peak. The canon says that Magus is alive and well at the end of Chrono Trigger, and that he undoubtfully joined Crono's party. Since here we're discussing the canon, we can safely assume that Magus IS in the party.
Let's think about it. Why do these Vortexes open? We only know that the DVs are, somehow, connected with the Time's Eclipse (or the Darkness Beyond Time, as you wish to call it). Maybe the three clones REALLY are the Ghost Children, or something like that. But let's stick to some known facts: when the DVs open, SURELY Lavos is already in the DBT assimilating Schala and forming the Dream Devourer. Since we already know that the DBT is a place, well, away from every timeline and every dimension, we can safely assume that once Lavos is defeated in one savegame we can find the Dream Devourer in every dimension- i.e. in EVERY other savegame originated from that one. The DVs may be a gameplay-only requirement. So, we can theorize that if someone else (that isn't Crono's party) want to access the Time's Eclipse, that someone doesn't have to pass through the three DVs.
Another thing: apart from defeating the Dream Devourer, the only way to truly finish the game is defeating Lavos. So, another thing we can theorize is that once Lavos/Dream Devourer is beaten, Crono and friends are "off duty" and never do a battle again (maybe for the exception of the Guardia battle that determines the Rise of Porre). What I'm saying here is this: if we defeat Lavos in a savegame, and then we load back that same savegame, we must think that THAT IS ANOTHER DIMENSION, and that party is another party with another Crono, another Lucca etc. Our "view" of every dimension basically finishes when we defeat Lavos. This thing is fundamental. We can proceed =D
2) Party Magus, while searching for Schala, learns that she's being held captive by Lavos in the DBT and somehow finds a way to get to this place. So, Party Magus enters the DBT (or Time's Eclipse).
~MEANWHILE~
3) Our happy player loads back the savegame in which he defeated Lavos, thus watching another dimension. He finishes the three DVs and goes to the Time's Eclipse.
Guess who's there? Eclipse Magus! But, if you've followed my line, we know that this Eclipse Magus is really our "old" Party Magus! Then, the battle rages: Eclipse/Old Party Magus gets his sorry ass beaten, the alternate-dimension-Crono's party wins but they somehow get their sorry ass equally beaten. Schala teleports all the people out of the Time's Eclipse, probably erasing the memories of Old Party Magus (I don't understand if his memories are erased by himself, actually). She doesn't erase the memories of the alternate-dimension-party: in fact, they were sent to the right time, and when (after some years) Porre+Dalton arrives, the party beats the crap out of them and Guardia reigns.
The history which we witnessed in Chrono Cross (where Porre wins over Guardia, etc.) is simply the history of the Original dimension (those events listed at number 1). Original-dimension-party didn't go to the Dimensional Vortexes at all, thus they didn't know about Dalton and Porre's attack, and thus here's how the Fall of Guardia happened. I think it's a good way to explain the new things in Trigger DS and accept them into canon without having to redo all the theories about the Fall of Guardia and such.
Uhm, well... I think a sort of mini-map can be of help.
Code: [Select]
Original Dimension, Savegame 1
Porre strikes; party
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------> doesn't know a thing, ---> Chrono Cross Events
| | | | Guardia falls
Crono and party Moonlight Parade The party continues to |
defeat Lavos; events; Party Magus live an happy life, |
Lavos goes to DBT sets back to 12000 BC save for Party Magus |
and forms the to save Schala; which learns that Schala |
Dream Devourer player gets access is kept at Lavos' stake |
to the Dimensional in Time's Eclipse |
Vortexes |
|
|
Party Magus finds a way to the
Time's Eclipse and go there
|
+---------------------------------------------------+
|
Time's Eclipse, Savegame 1*|
|
---------------------------+---------> Dream Devourer events
|
+----------------------------------------------------+
|
Alternate Dimension, Savegame 1* Alternate Crono's party go to the Time's Eclipse
|
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+--+--> Porre strikes, but the heroes knew and win
| | | |
Instead of defeating They encounter Dalton Gaspar senses something Party is teleported
Lavos, this alternate which tells his dreams at 1999 AD; the way to by Schala out of
Crono's party goes of conquering Guardia Time's Eclipse is open DBT
to the DVs with Porre's army
*note: Savegame 1 is the Original savegame, Savegame 1* means that the player has saved after the credits roll (so, he basically added the DVs to
the Original Savegame).
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Which boss did you have the most difficulty defeating?
« on: January 02, 2009, 10:18:58 pm »
Well, Trigger is a rather easy game... I only losed once, to the Golem Sisters. They're actually pretty annoying.
Cross is way different. Many bosses posed a threat, IMHO: Garai, Dario, Dark Serge, etc. But I think it's also due to CC's "level up" system: finishing an "important" boss battle like the aforementioned with one or two dead party members counted as a defeat to me, since the incapacitated guys did not receive any stat bonus, and I always loaded back the game and rebattled the boss. The one and only boss in CC which COMPLETELY destroyed me (i.e. all three party members dead) was Miguel and his stupid face that made him look like a moron =P
Cross is way different. Many bosses posed a threat, IMHO: Garai, Dario, Dark Serge, etc. But I think it's also due to CC's "level up" system: finishing an "important" boss battle like the aforementioned with one or two dead party members counted as a defeat to me, since the incapacitated guys did not receive any stat bonus, and I always loaded back the game and rebattled the boss. The one and only boss in CC which COMPLETELY destroyed me (i.e. all three party members dead) was Miguel and his stupid face that made him look like a moron =P
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Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Re: Salve a tutti!
« on: January 02, 2009, 10:06:10 pm »Also, your English isn't horrible at all.
Well, take that phrase as a lame excuse for every time I misspell a word or two in my posts =P
Thanks to everyone for the "welcome"s!
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Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Salve a tutti!
« on: January 02, 2009, 09:32:24 pm »
...you thought I was going to write all the topic in Italian, right? xD
(No? Oh well, it doesn't matter.
)
I'm Neku and, as you already probably guessed, I'm Italian. I'm a sort of newcomer into the Chrono series... I finished the SNES version of Trigger about a decade ago, without much enjoyment: I played CT only because they were all like "OH MY GOD CRONO TRIGGAH IS DA BEST GAME EVAH", but at the time I was like only 10yo and I couldn't understand anything of the game xD A few months ago I purchased the JAP version of Chrono Trigger DS and... Well, let's just say that a love was born XD I have finished both Trigger and Cross a couple times in these months. I'm totally drawn into the billions and billions [/exaggeration] of theories that these two game require to fully understand them :Q___ Mix that with a quick Google search and there's how Chrono Compendium became my #1 bookmark! Now I've decided to register, instead of lurking without a name in the shadows XD Well, 'nuff said... 'Till next time (or post? Who knows xD)!
PS: Oh, and sorry for my horrible English...
(No? Oh well, it doesn't matter.
)I'm Neku and, as you already probably guessed, I'm Italian. I'm a sort of newcomer into the Chrono series... I finished the SNES version of Trigger about a decade ago, without much enjoyment: I played CT only because they were all like "OH MY GOD CRONO TRIGGAH IS DA BEST GAME EVAH", but at the time I was like only 10yo and I couldn't understand anything of the game xD A few months ago I purchased the JAP version of Chrono Trigger DS and... Well, let's just say that a love was born XD I have finished both Trigger and Cross a couple times in these months. I'm totally drawn into the billions and billions [/exaggeration] of theories that these two game require to fully understand them :Q___ Mix that with a quick Google search and there's how Chrono Compendium became my #1 bookmark! Now I've decided to register, instead of lurking without a name in the shadows XD Well, 'nuff said... 'Till next time (or post? Who knows xD)!
PS: Oh, and sorry for my horrible English...
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