Author Topic: Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.  (Read 12623 times)

Mr Bekkler

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Re: Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.
« Reply #90 on: August 25, 2012, 04:28:08 pm »
You could pull the other direction and make Schala more like Kid in that case. And just to be clear, I don't mind her having an accent, but the accent generator system in Cross is one of my least favorite aspects of the game, because its dialogue was written half by a person and half by a computer and most of them turned out annoying to english speakers and much worse for esl audiences.

So you do what you want, it'll be much better no matter what!

Rocky

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Re: Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.
« Reply #91 on: August 26, 2012, 03:17:08 am »
Yes, the accent system is a joke to me.  It sounds ridiculous, and is yet another way in which it tries to be nothing like CT.

I liked that idea of copying the fetch quest later in the game, to prove you're really Serge.  That's pretty ingenious, and I would've enjoyed it.

Yeah, Leena is an extremely bossy brat, and there's nothing substantial between her and Serge, IMO.  However, I personally felt like there was something to the Serge/Kid relationship.  I agree that it didn't make sense to let the player choose to turn her away time and again.  I mean, she's extremely central to the story.  As for the nature of their relationship... Yeah, it's definitely a rocky dynamic, but to me it didn't feel like Kid treated Serge like he was inferior, as it felt with Leena.  It was different, maybe more like they were equals or something, even during the moments of anger.  I guess it's like the occasional TV romances that are filled with bickering and banter, like Sam and Diane on Cheers.  Anyway, I thought their scenes on Water Dragon Isle, by the bed in Guldove (when she's sick), and outside the burning orphanage, etc., showed some meaningful moments between them.  (And digressing back to the start of this post... Yeah, the accent detracts from what's going on a bit too much...)

Lennis

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Re: Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.
« Reply #92 on: August 26, 2012, 07:04:51 pm »
Serge and Kid's best scene, by far, was on Water Dragon Isle.  What's ironic is that you don't get to see that scene unless you choose not to save Kid from poison.  This to me is not a good way to start a relationship...

Kodokami

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Re: Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.
« Reply #93 on: August 26, 2012, 07:22:51 pm »
Any relationship between Serge and Kid is a remnant of Radical Dreamers, I say. It was much more palpable there. The transfer to Chrono Cross--while still trying to retain the feeling--was a disservice to that original love story.

Why all the hate for Leena? Sure, the developers poorly handled that relationship as well, but Another World's Leena isn't the selfish, bossy girlfriend seen in Home World. It is more obvious that she is a caring individual in the other world, so who's to say we just caught a glimpse of Home World's Leena on a bad day? Serge did inadvertently force her to babysit those kids.

~~~
Also, a bit off-topic, but I just noticed this while skimming the script:
Quote from: Leena
   Sure is weird...
   Why am I opening up
   to you like this?
   Well, I guess there's
   no use thinking about
   the past.
   It's not like Serge is
   going to come back...
   Mom always tells me
   I shouldn't dwell on
   a lost loved one...

Her father. Ugh, right in the feels.

alfadorredux

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Re: Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.
« Reply #94 on: August 26, 2012, 07:45:02 pm »
Serge and Kid's best scene, by far, was on Water Dragon Isle.  What's ironic is that you don't get to see that scene unless you choose not to save Kid from poison.  This to me is not a good way to start a relationship...

You can save Kid and still get the campfire scene--you just have to not save Razzly. I've done it a couple of times.

Lennis

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Re: Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.
« Reply #95 on: August 26, 2012, 08:34:52 pm »
Why all the hate for Leena? Sure, the developers poorly handled that relationship as well, but Another World's Leena isn't the selfish, bossy girlfriend seen in Home World. It is more obvious that she is a caring individual in the other world, so who's to say we just caught a glimpse of Home World's Leena on a bad day? Serge did inadvertently force her to babysit those kids.

Don't look at me.  I love Leena.  I just think both versions had wasted potential.  Rewriting her story-arc to correct this injustice is one of my long-term goals, in fact.

You can save Kid and still get the campfire scene--you just have to not save Razzly. I've done it a couple of times.

Oh dear!  I played through Chrono Cross three times this summer and I didn't know you could do that!   :oops:   I'm no fan of having fairies included in the game, but I'd still feel bad about not saving Razzly if I had the chance.

Rocky

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Re: Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.
« Reply #96 on: August 27, 2012, 12:29:54 am »
Yeah, I was fortunate to have seen the Water Dragon Isle scene on my first playthrough back in 2000.  I saved Kid - couldn't have lived with myself if I didn't.  :)  However, I unintentionally skipped the Razzly rescue.  I just didn't even find that area while going through the Marshes, instead happening to go in the direction of the Hydra right off the bat.  I didn't even know, for a long time, that the WDI scene could be missed.  That it can it be is a dumb programming decision.

And I don't actually hate Leena, either.  I suppose it goes back to the issue of face time (with so many characters), and the need for a counter-intuitive choice in order to recruit "Another" her (turning down Kid, with no way of knowing that you'll get another chance for her - not on the first time anyway).  So, the only sure time you'll spend with her ("Home" her) is right at the start, when she orders Serge around and seems a bit superficial with the great importance she places on this Dragon Scale fad.

As I've often said before, the least likable character in Trigger can still be very likable - because you get to learn about and see a lot of all of them.  When your attention is inevitably divided by so many faces in Cross, you might only catch a glimpse of a lot of them, and just one glimpse probably won't be enough to make you care about them.  That's just how it is for me anyway.

Kodokami

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Re: Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.
« Reply #97 on: August 30, 2012, 12:28:17 am »
It's interesting to note that AW's Leena isn't even into the Komodo scale fad; in fact, she calls them disgusting

You can save Kid and still get the campfire scene--you just have to not save Razzly. I've done it a couple of times.
Explains why I always miss it. I like recruiting Razzly.

utunnels

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Re: Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.
« Reply #98 on: August 30, 2012, 01:02:38 am »
It's interesting to note that AW's Leena isn't even into the Komodo scale fad; in fact, she calls them disgusting

Try to show the scale to AW Una and watch the funny the dialogue. It seems the scale is entirely abhorred in AW Arni.

Lennis

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Re: Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.
« Reply #99 on: August 30, 2012, 09:12:11 pm »
Try to show the scale to AW Una and watch the funny the dialogue.

Ha!  Yet another thing I didn't know!   :lol:

Rocky

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Re: Wanted to share how I feel about Chrono Cross, and why.
« Reply #100 on: October 24, 2012, 03:42:13 am »
I had no intention to dig out this topic, but I just came across a fairly short article that echoed my feelings expressed in this topic; so I thought I could avoid unnecessarily starting a new topic.

Here a few quotes from the article:

"People are upset with Chrono Cross because it is a departure, in every single conceivable way, from the beloved journey of Crono, Marle, and Lucca."  (After listing some of the ways, he adds...)  "Oh, right: And all the characters from Chrono Trigger are either confirmed dead, believed to be dead, or just plain missing from the story..."

"What does this scene, which takes place in Lucca’s house from Chrono Trigger, tell us about its sequel as a whole? Everything burns.

"Everything burns. Remember that uplifting quest from the previous game? It only takes one fluke in time’s flow to undo all your efforts."

"There is no scene more telling of the nature of how Chrono Cross operates than the entire Dead Sea sequence... Even Johnny, the futuristic robot that never did any harm, could not be spared. Seriously, the plot of Cross is ruthless when it comes to denying or taking away things, people, or places that the player once held dear."

"But there is honestly no greater sense of loss than when Lynx approaches a lone, fallen bell in the middle of the screen that reads 1000 AD, Nadia’s Bell, May our prayers for peace ring on for eternity."

"Beyond all the artistic integrity of Chrono Trigger, it offered implicit messages of hope through the actions of Crono and his friends. But Chrono Cross is in stark contrast of this notion: Miguel’s point of view, when stripped down, is very explicit, in your face philosophy that amounts to nihilism at best... Everything burns. And according to Miguel, we are all Prisoners of Fate."

"Chrono Cross is truly the darkness to counter Chrono Trigger’s light... Chrono Trigger ended on an ultimately happy note…but because of the way Chrono Cross ends, the player is more likely to take away its darkest moments than its resolution that offers a peek at light once again."

"Essentially, Chrono Cross embodies hopelessness."

The full article can be found here: http://operationrainfall.com/analyzing-the-chrono-games/2/

(I certainly don't agree with his theory on Miguel's identity, but I agreed with the rest.)

He admits, near the beginning, that Chrono Cross is a fine game in its own rights - a sentiment that I, too, can yield to.  Rather, the clear point of the article is that Chrono Cross was pretty much the opposite of Chrono Trigger.  So if Chrono Trigger is my all-time favorite game, and I especially love the positive spirit exuded by the group of friends, then wouldn't it only be logical that I would find Chrono Cross very unenjoyable, since its core theme is just the opposite of that?

I know I already expressed nearly the same thing.  I just stumbled upon this while searching for Chrono Cross pics, and wanted to share it, since it was in line with what I'd already said.

Oh, and he ended by attaching a YouTube video - the Chrono track from the Symphonic Fantasies concert/CD.  He said that from 9:13 - 12:30, they fittingly melded "Prisoners of Fate" with "To Far Away Times."  What better contrast of hopelessness and hopefulness could there be, eh?