Author Topic: Land Rights Debate  (Read 3177 times)

Burning Zeppelin

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Land Rights Debate
« on: September 26, 2005, 08:47:47 am »
Quote from: BlueThunder
Barney and Michel Jackson scare me because they are both child molesters :shock: I'm not lyingREALLY

STOP CHANGING TEXT SIZE!
Anyways...
1.Pain
2.God
3.Financial and Social Death
4.Death

Pain has always frightened me. Not pain like, ow, i fell over, but things like being stapped with a blunt object till it enters my skin, and falling of a giant building. Why the building? People go, oh yeah, but you die flying, but when you hit the ground no matter how quick, you will feel emmence pain. And while falling, especially if you are commiting suicide, you either might change your mind, or you will become so anxious and nervous, that your mind would die. And about the death part, even if you die of old age, it might be painful (muslims believe that if you are bad and you die, it would be like you soul is cotton wool drenched in water, and stuck in barbed wire, and when the angel of death arrives, it will be like him pulling it out slowly  :shock: ) and the prospect of entering the unknown also frightens me

Quote from: Legend of the Past
Quote from: Sentenal
Quote from: Legend of the Past
I just hate Arabs. :\


Well, with you being an Israeli (I think), they probably hate you too.


Don't worry, they do,

Quote from: Sentenal
Don't worry, you gots my support :)


May God be with you.


I dont fully support you Legend, but i dont go against you either. Innocent people must be left out of war, but sadly this has become conflict, or when civilians must fight as well (my sis did hsc modern history) they arent doing it in gods name, the PALESTINIANS (its not all Arabs you know), because they want it for the land, and its not an added bonus. let me tell you something oh fair listeners:

Jihad must be provoked. You cant go in and say, hey, you are defiling gods name, you must die. You cant also kill civilians, use bombs, destroy natural resources, kill women and children, or take hostages. God WILL punish them. But at an extent, pushing aside religion, who is right? The Israelis had it as there promised land, but the Palestinians also had it for a long amount of time, and defended it from many sides like Egyptians. This reminds me of Ireland. Im still going for the IRA though, the damn protestants were oppressing them. Im from Bangladesh, and supposedely 3 MILLION were killed, but i dont hate the pakistanis, except General Mu..sharof? But i hate most world leaders.

Lets go back on topic

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2005, 09:58:06 am »
Quote from: Burning Zeppelin
This reminds me of Ireland. Im still going for the IRA though, the damn protestants were oppressing them.

This is one corner of the world where reason and common ground may finally be giving way to peace. The head watchdog of the IRA disarmament process is set to announce today that the IRA disarmament is substantially complete, thus bringing to a close, at least officially, a very bloody chapter in that country's history. In all these parts of the world where you read about two sides locked in an eternal struggle, it's so nice to see that, here in Ireland, these centuries of enmity are now passing into a realm of peace. And even though the enmity shall linger on, true and permanent peace is a good move toward the finish line.

Burning Zeppelin

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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2005, 06:06:06 am »
Huzzah

BlueThunder

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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2005, 09:33:34 pm »
What is Huzzah

Kazuki

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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2005, 09:39:04 pm »
It's a word that's a synonym for "hurrah."

Sentenal

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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2005, 09:46:46 pm »
Zepplin, don't turn this topic into a debate over Israel.

nightmare975

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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2005, 11:24:47 pm »
Quote from: Kazuki
It's a word that's a synonym for "hurrah."


They say it on Pirates of the Carribian(Misspelled?). When the British win against the dead pirates they shout "Huzzah!".

Burning Zeppelin

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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2005, 12:35:07 am »
Quote from: Sentenal
Zepplin, don't turn this topic into a debate over Israel.

This is not a debate upon Israel SPECIFICALLY. It includes Ireland...and other conflict (not war, they're different) nations. Plus, what debate?

Sentenal

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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2005, 12:39:25 am »
The part about "I don't fully support you" almost made me kick my debate mode into gear, and I'd rather not do that.

Burning Zeppelin

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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2005, 07:34:58 am »
Quote from: Sentenal
The part about "I don't fully support you" almost made me kick my debate mode into gear, and I'd rather not do that.

You must have some sort of short attention span. I said "I do not fully support you, but i dont go against you either" In other words, im on a neutral state, because i do not have emotions throwing me around everywhere. If i was arab, i would side with palestinians, if i was israeli, i would go for israel. But see, "i do not fully support you" means i do not NOT like arabs, and i do not go against you means i do no NOT like israelis

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2005, 09:33:08 am »
Quote from: Burning Zeppelin
Quote from: Sentenal
The part about "I don't fully support you" almost made me kick my debate mode into gear, and I'd rather not do that.

You must have some sort of short attention span. I said "I do not fully support you, but i dont go against you either" In other words, im on a neutral state, because i do not have emotions throwing me around everywhere. If i was arab, i would side with palestinians, if i was israeli, i would go for israel. But see, "i do not fully support you" means i do not NOT like arabs, and i do not go against you means i do no NOT like israelis

Israel is a very controversial subject in the United States, nor is it one that matches party lines. It tends to provoke people into heated debate much more easily than most other topics. So forgive Sentenal for having a heartfelt opinion on the subject; I can understand where he's coming from. I feel pretty strongly on the matter myself. And aye, he did misread what you wrote...but it's an easy mistake to make on this subject. Now that the record is set straight, all is right with the Compendium once again.

The controversy offers a very interesting glimpse into American culture, precisely because it has so little to do with the liberal/conservative spectrum that defines most controversial topics.

Support for Israel is the majority position in the United States. But although some groups overlap, the reasons for support are greatly diverse:

* The Jewish population--which is even larger than Israel's Jewish population--supports Israel overwhelmingly, from rich secular liberal Jews like Jon Stewart, to conservative fanatical ultraorthodox Jews like my half-brother Scott, to William Fucking Shatner himself, Lord of the Geeks. (O Shatner, we salute You! May you live long and prosper, and continue to make music that could never possibly be taken seriously!)

* The Christian extremists in this country tend to support Israel because of the pretend "Judeo-Christian alliance," which they have made with the Jewish community in order to advance the fight against Islam, which they really, really hate. These guys are doing the ol' "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" trick.

* The mainstream Christian establishment therefore also supports Israel, because they buy into the Judeo-Christian message their leaders preach. Sure, most of them will still tell you that Jews are going to Hell, but as far as worldy alliances go, Jews rock!

* Many flag-waving, "freedom-loving" Americans support Israel because it is the only first-world democracy in the Middle East, and, some would argue, the only functional country in the Middle East. This makes Israel a natural ally of America.

* Conservative knee-jerkers support Israel because Islamic terrorists are always trying to blow it up, discredit it on the world stage, and blow it up. Thus, so the reasoning goes, if the terrorists hate Israel, then, ipso facto, the knee-jerkers love it!

* The U.S. government supports Israel because the pro-Israel lobby is extremely strong and outspoken, and opposing Israel would therefore be political suicide. The vociferousness of these pro-Israel groups owes itself largely to affluent Jews with social clout, who, after centuries of persecution by almost everyone else on the planet, have gotten very good at playing the game by other people's rules.

* Neoconservatives and xenophobic conservatives support Israel because all our potential adversaries--from Russia, to China, to Europe--are very critical of Israel and hostile toward it economically, and Heaven forbid that these red-meat Americans would be caught dead agreeing with the likes of France.

* Some secular Americans support Israel for what it is--a healthy, prosperous nation living in an unstable region of the world surrounded by enemies. Israel is a nation of civil liberties, human rights, enterprise, and a gritty pragmatism that comes with being such a popular target for bullies.

* And you have to admit, Israel is pretty cool. (i.e., liberal)

Opposition to Israel is the minority position in the United States, but a significant minority. However, there are fewer groups that represent this minority:

* Muslims overwhelmingly oppose Israel, for many of the same reasons that Jews support it. Modern Islam has become extremely anti-Semitic. (They'd have done better to pick on Christianity.)

* The Christian super-extremists oppose Israel because, even though the thought of Islam makes them apoplectic, they can't bring themselves to make an alliance with Jews.

* Many rank-and-file liberals oppose Israel because of its violent relationship with the Palestinians, whom they perceive as victims of an overly aggressive Israeli land-grabbing war machine. This is by far the largest segment in the community of American opposition to Israel.

* Racists, neofascists, anti-Zionists, conspiracy-theorists, and professional anti-Semites hate Jews because, didn't you know, the Jews are responsible for every evil that has befallen the world, from hurricanes and tsunamis all the way down to that time their car ran out of gas on the highway.

* Some American businesses don't do business in Israel under pressure from Muslim governments and Arab businessmen who threaten to remove the Arab market from underneath their feet if they sell their products in Israel.

Reconciliation on the subject of Israel will be long in coming. Even after the Palestinians have a state of their own, world opposition to Israel will continue, because both Islam and Christianity are inherently anti-Semitic, and and until that ceases to be the case--or until Israel and the Jews simply cease to be--then the opposition will thrive, not only on the anti-Semitic level, but on many others as well. Tonight happens to mark the start of Rosh Hashana, the Jewish new year. But unfortunately, some old problems just won't go away.

Legend of the Past

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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2005, 11:42:01 am »
Quote from: Burning Zeppelin

Quote from: Legend of the Past
Quote from: Sentenal
Quote from: Legend of the Past
I just hate Arabs. :\


Well, with you being an Israeli (I think), they probably hate you too.


Don't worry, they do,

Quote from: Sentenal
Don't worry, you gots my support :)


May God be with you.


I dont fully support you Legend, but i dont go against you either. Innocent people must be left out of war, but sadly this has become conflict, or when civilians must fight as well (my sis did hsc modern history) they arent doing it in gods name, the PALESTINIANS (its not all Arabs you know), because they want it for the land, and its not an added bonus. let me tell you something oh fair listeners:

Jihad must be provoked. You cant go in and say, hey, you are defiling gods name, you must die. You cant also kill civilians, use bombs, destroy natural resources, kill women and children, or take hostages. God WILL punish them. But at an extent, pushing aside religion, who is right? The Israelis had it as there promised land, but the Palestinians also had it for a long amount of time, and defended it from many sides like Egyptians. This reminds me of Ireland. Im still going for the IRA though, the damn protestants were oppressing them. Im from Bangladesh, and supposedely 3 MILLION were killed, but i dont hate the pakistanis, except General Mu..sharof? But i hate most world leaders.


You wanna hear my side of the matter? My BIASED yet TRUE side of the matter?

Did you grow up seeing bloody corpses on the sidewalk while you were watching the damn news? Did you see that kind of stuff almost three times a week? Did you have to listen to how people cried over their dead husbands, sons, brothers, father, uncles or friends? Because the very point in this entire example is that I HAVE!

Living under fear that everytime you go out of the house you could very well be blown to bits isn't very symphatic. Having your mom WEEP FOR YOUR FATE everytime she dosen't know where you are isn't very comfortable, either. Living in Israel really stinks sometimes, but I don't care, because I'm a Jew and a Israeli and I don't give a damn about the Arabs or the Palestinians. Trust me, having Sharon give our land to them was bad enough. While you probably just had it mentioned in the news, we had to see families dragged by soldiers, and then seeing those soldiers crying because they did exactly what German soldiers did fifty five years ago.

I really don't give a friggin damn about them or their religion. They kill my people, my brothers? Fine. Three years from now I'm enlisting to the army, and I'll shoot them all down the moment I get the chance.

Just remember you can never ever change an Israeli's mind about this, because just like an incredible poet once wrote:

אין לי ארץ אחרת, גם אם אדמתי בוערת...

nightmare975

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« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2005, 03:35:51 pm »
Quote from: Legend of the Past
Did you grow up seeing bloody corpses on the sidewalk while you were watching the damn news? Did you see that kind of stuff almost three times a week? Did you have to listen to how people cried over their dead husbands, sons, brothers, father, uncles or friends? Because the very point in this entire example is that I HAVE!


Wow, I don't know what to say. I feel sorry, but I don't how to say it...

Quote from: a famous poet
אין לי ארץ אחרת, גם אם אדמתי בוערת...


What does that say exactly?

Burning Zeppelin

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« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2005, 12:51:30 am »
Dude, I'm not trying to stop your views. Im trying to introduce a second opinion on the forums. It sure is horrible seeing dead people on the street, and Sharon is actually trying to stop it, by giving land BACK to the Palestinians. Whether or no you believe it is your land or not, people deserve some land, not a peice of stip. Palestine is actually, geographically not a country, with only the west bank and Gaza w/e. I do not see why sharing can not be in place. I live in a multicultural country (no matter how racist it is) so i dont understand the concept of patriotism much, but i do know that this war is much over Jeruselam, and Juresulam is a place for all religions. This place is a much Jewish as it is Mu
slim or Christian, yet the turmoil that is going on there
Quote
123 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 686 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.
1,065 Israelis and 3,706 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000.
7,462 Israelis and 29,186 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000.
Chart showing that the United States gives over 26 times more assistance to Israel than to Palestinian development organizations.      

The U.S. gives $15,139,178 per day to the Israeli government and military and $232,290 per day to Palestinian NGO’s.
Israel has been targeted by at least 65 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by none.
No Israelis are being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 8,279 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel.
Demolitions of Israeli and Palestinian Homes

0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 4,170 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since September 29, 2000.
   Chart showing that 2202 Palestinian homes have been destroyed, compared to one Israeli home.
Israeli and Palestinian Unemployment Rates
Chart depicting the fact that the Palestinian unemployment is around 4 times the Israeli unemployment rate.    

The Israeli unemployment rate is 10.4%, while the Palestinian unemployment is estimated at 37-67%.
New Settlements Built (March 2001 - July 2003)

60+ new Jewish-only settlements have been built on confiscated Palestinian land between March 2001 and July 11, 2003. There have been 0 cases of Palestinians confiscating Israeli land and building settlements.

i dont know if http://www.ifamericansknew.org/ is biased or not, but seeing is how it is an organisation and not a geocities site. But i agree that any death is horrible, and it should all end now. Stupid arab miltants are provoking the war to the point in which it kill thousands, but seeing as how they probably arent losing manu soldiers, they dont care. They are the masters of propaganda, and the Palestinians seem to not be able to think for themselves. Therefore, why, as a developed country, should Isrealis do the same. Sharon, no matter how assholed you think he is, is trying to stop violence, whether or not its for his evil plans. The new Palestinian government is working hard also, but this has not a war anymore between to goverments, this is a conflict between two cultures and its people. The militants arent government, they are just fantics who believe that the sinful should die. Maybe that is why the commit suicide, because they are sinful, and they should die. If they do any explosions during the next month or so, they will definetely be painfully punishd by god, because it is Ramadan, they time for utter peice and self restraint. Commiting suicide in this month (it is a sin anytime though) is like spitting on his Book and massacring thousands of muslims. Damn, these people take hostages which is unislamic. but this conflict has changed far from a religious attack, and is now a battle to see who will crack first, who is the most powerful, and who will take control of the middle east. Plus, Yasser Arafat did win a nobel peace prize.

Take this no way as an insult to the Israeli people. They are a beautifully cultured people, and I truly feel sorry for you that you lost people that you may know, or even if you didnt, it horrible seeing your folk dead. But you must realize that you arent the only victims, that the Palestinians are also victims, and so are people wanting to go to the holy city of Jeruselam.

EDITL: I also realize that your people have been in wars for centuries, milleniums even, and i guess you wont take it anymore, due to your rise in power. But, just wondering, do you still hold grudges against Germany?
Plus, you must realise that many small minded muslims still believe Jews are sinning gods way. In the past it is said they sinned by worshiping idols, lying and mocking moses, and mocking god, but obviousy no more. so i dont know why they still believe so :roll:
in other words, i agree with lord :)
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Also, another of my fears is Good Charlotte or the Pussycat Dolls winning awards or best artist or what no[/quote] :roll:

SolidSnake_8608

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« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2005, 02:47:01 pm »
Don't mess with Isreal man, it's been proven in history that any country that messes with God's people don' succeed very well afterwards, besides, no isreali(sp?) has ever done any wrong to me, and a lot of Jewish people are nice, in fact, i've never met one that wasn't. Being a Catholic male, i know what it's like to see my religion pushed upon others, and i can honestly say, i don't agree with it.  I've never seen a Jewish person go around trying to get other people to join their beliefs. and it's really a shame all the crap that they have been through, when they finally get the land that was rightfully theirs in the first place back, they start getting bombed and junk like that.  Do to all the garbage (trying to keep it clean here) that has happened to them over the course of history, i'd almost say that they deserve to do whatever the hell they want to.  It's a little different to be living somewhere like America, where you can take for granite all the freedom we have. We don't have to worry really about going to the mall or getting on a bus and getting blown up by some cry baby who can't accept another race or their beliefs.  So to Palestine, i say, go on believing the words of a crazy drunk who basically just made some shit up and all your crazy asses believed him because, well, you suck, and you want a reason to kill. Bastards.  And no damn terrorist ever, EVER, better let me catch them doing some stupid shit like 9-11 ever again, cause i'll go nuts and freakin' end up in prison for all the crap that they have done supposedly in the name of the Lord.  I'm fairly confident that God didn't want some crazy ass wholes going aroung flying planes into buildings or blowing themselves up and in the process, killing innocent women and children.  Sorry if i've offended any one, but after seeing an American soldier get his head cut off with a freakin' butter knife, i'm pretty bitter towards anyone who thinks that going crazy because of some "prophet" (who he himself was a little nuts) said so would get you into heaven, and that idea is just ludacris. And i don't dislike all muslim people, just those who feel it's their job to tell me that i'm wrong, and i'm going to hell, that God's job dammit, if i'm an infedel, or the jewish people or even the Catholics are wrong about God, then let the Lord tell me on judgement day, but not some bastards who train to kill innocent people by climbing across monkey bars.