Where did the Mystics come from?

[ZealKnight]

But entire purpose of this is that humans evolved. Because we do not see a physical or intellectual development, the magical development is used to explain such evolution. However, you are supposing an unlikely evolutionary pattern (Lavos influence = develop magic in humans, non-lavos influence = develop magic in a totally separate species).

Well I wouldn't use those as tools enough for their intelligence. I was actually referring to the Gun, which confused me as I was playing. But more importantly, even if they could have evolved on their own it wouldn't change my point. The humans receive magic from Lavos, and if the Mystics were created by humans from magic, where would they come from? If Lavos fell in the Reptite dimension and the Reptites received magic from the FF, that would explain it, If the Mystics evolved on their own that would explain. Human evolution has no relevance, unless what you are trying to say is that humans eventually got magic but much much later on their own and created the Mystics, but were still wiped out. I find that very highly, extremely impossible.

Maybe looking back my entire argument is probably, the Mystic's existence does not rely on humans getting magic.

I always use to think it had something to do with magic, maybe they were born from magic? But they are in the Non-Lavos dimension.

And if you are referring to my Sun Stone comment that was mainly saying that humans or reptites used the Sun Stone's Magic to create/somehow bring about the Mystics.

Mystic existence cannot rely on human, more specifically Lavos gained human magic.

[Chrono'99]

I think evolution of the Mystics from the Sun Stone is a very decent theory. The earliest era we see Mystics in is 12,000 B.C., and since we know Zeal used the Sun Stone before the Mammon Machine, the former could be the tool they used to "create" Mystics or evolve them from other creatures. Zeal didn't exist in the Lost Sanctum timeline, but the Sun Stone probably did since it existed before 65 million B.C. (the Sun Keep exists in Prehistory). So the Mystics could still have been created in that timeline in different circumstances.

[art_garfunkel]

The simplest answer I can give is "We just don't know." Theres plenty of decent theories that could be made, but there is just a information blank on where they came from. Personally, I find it easier to believe that they had always been there, and had evolved naturally, and by the time of Ozzie, they had reached a pinnacle of their civilization; becoming powerful and numerous enough to challenge humans for dominance on Zenan.

[placidchap]

they were life forms that fell off of Lavos during its descent, like the creatures that fell off the monster in Cloverfield.

[chrono eric]

Another laughable comparison between R/L and Chronoverse.

Lower mammals to humans in 65m years = normal evolution (R/L)
Less intelligent humanoids to modern R/L equivalent humanoids in 65m years = fast evolution. (CH)

Yes, exactly. It's so laughable that I always just assumed that Ayla and co. were somehow transported back in time to 65 M BC. After all, Kino appeared at Mystic Mountain, why couldn't the rest of the humans alive then have come from some later time period earlier on?

[Thought]

Why would the Sun Stone cause the mystics to evolve? Its never even hinted at that the Sun Stone has that sort of power.

Only the Frozen Flame, Lavos, and Dreamstone are attributed with that kind of power.

Course, there could be a lot of Dreamstone about, allowing mystics and humans to evolve separately.

[ZealKnight]

I thought the Dreamstone's only attribute was the ability to absorb magic. Second it is like the Frozen Flame without Lavos, the old source of magic. AND AS YOU SAID THE ONLY EVIDENCE OF EVOLUTION FROM THE FROZEN FLAME IS MAGIC! Sucks when I pin you against yourself, huh?

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

ZealKnight, you're really aggressive when it comes to analysis.

The thing is...  Dreamstone isn't as simple of "absorbing power".  Obviously it is capable (as seen with being used against Magus and lowering his magic defense, as well as being used to destroy the Mammon Machine), but it also seems capable of storing and projecting power.  For instance, Marle's pendant is only capable of opening the sealed doors once it has absorbed power from the Mammon Machine.  Then again, I'm not completely sure if Marle's/Schala's pendant is forged from Dreamstone.  Also, the Dreamstone is crucial to the very existence of the Dream Species, particularly Masa and Mune.

[Thought]

Depends on how you want to take this quote:

  It all began aeons ago, when man's
   ancestors picked up a shard of a
   strange red rock...
  
   Its power, which was beyond human
   comprehension, cultivated dreams...
   In turn, love and hate were born...
  
   Only time will see how it all ends.

As that is a line from CT, in which the Frozen Flame didn't exist/wasn't mentioned, it probably was intended to refer to Dreamstone. Hence, that is where the assumed evolutionary capabilities of Dreamstone are referenced. Though I don't recall anything saying Dreamstone absorbs magic. It does absorb Lavos' power, but the game is a bit vague on the differences. If the pendant, for example, only abosrbed generic magic, why couldn't Crono & Co have used their own magic to charge it or open a door? There seems to be a subtle difference between the two.

As for the Frozen Flame, assuming it caused evolution in humans (the CC script is vague; might be the FF, might be Lavos, if it is even valid to separate the two), it is that it produced the ability, in humans, to use magic. The how isn't made clear. However, we do know that it produces a particular and rare source of energy: anti-annihilation energy. I likewise don't recall anyone attributing such power to the Sun Stone.

Boo, it is implied that the Pendant is made from Dreamstone:

   Schala's pendant was made from the
   same red rock as the Mammon
   Machine.

[utunnels]

That's funny, it was made from "RED" rock...

[ZealKnight]

ZealKnight, you're really aggressive when it comes to analysis.

The thing is...  Dreamstone isn't as simple of "absorbing power".  Obviously it is capable (as seen with being used against Magus and lowering his magic defense, as well as being used to destroy the Mammon Machine), but it also seems capable of storing and projecting power. Also, the Dreamstone is crucial to the very existence of the Dream Species, particularly Masa and Mune.

Not really, just comes off that way. Deep down I'm questioning every word.

Turnip doesn't rely on Dream Stone. Then again that guy needs to sleep in order for him to exist. Perhaps it absorbed Melchior's dream, so that it could sleep for him. Don't forget the Masamune/Red Knife is still a blade. It absorbs Magus's magic which weakens him and cuts him.

As for the Frozen Flame, assuming it caused evolution in humans (the CC script is vague; might be the FF, might be Lavos, if it is even valid to separate the two), it is that it produced the ability, in humans, to use magic.

Yeah, what I said. The evolution in humans doesn't matter, all that matters is that they gained magic from it.

The how isn't made clear.

Lets be honest, does that really matter. At all. I think about this a lot. Does it matter "how" people absorb magic? I mean think about, humans don't normally have the power to absorb anything, but still many examples of it happening. Kefka, Sephiroth, Kuja, Humans in Chrono Series, and Exdeath are all examples of beings that absorb magic or any source of power in Jap RPGs. I'm thinking it's a Jap legend/religious thing. Like a real world influence. Just an idea. But I don't think how they absorb magic matters. It's that they did.

However, we do know that it produces a particular and rare source of energy: anti-annihilation energy. I likewise don't recall anyone attributing such power to the Sun Stone.

Do you have any real idea what anti-annihilation energy is? All we know is that the Sun Stone was used as the old source of magic, then the FF replaced it, because it produces it's own magic and does not rely on the Sun or any other source. They harnessed it's magic. Now I don't know if perhaps Zealians were not using magic themselves until the Frozen Flame, but I would assume so. Or maybe what I inferred wasn't what they implied.

[Thought]

uTunnel, are you implying that Dreamstone may in fact be the Frozen Flame? The emphasis on color seems odd, so I'm not entire sure what you meant.

Zealknight, you are right; it doesn't really matter. The issue is a simple one. The Sun Stone is never stated as being anything but a fancy battery for solar power. To claim that it can do more is fine, but evidence is required.

[utunnels]

Hmm, no.
I mean, the pendant is blue...
Although, the Masamune is not red in CT either.

[chrono eric]

And besides, Dreamstone existed before Lavos fell. Although it does seem odd that if the Frozen Flame was a part of the Mammon Machine, then Dreamstone seems to react with it.

[ZealKnight]

Zealknight, you are right; it doesn't really matter. The issue is a simple one. The Sun Stone is never stated as being anything but a fancy battery for solar power. To claim that it can do more is fine, but evidence is required.

I'm not really claiming that. I know there is little knowledge of it, just speculation. You know to give something to those people who want to believe they are born from magic.

Hmm, no.
I mean, the pendant is blue...
Although, the Masamune is not red neither in CT.

I'm sorry I'm not an English Teacher but that is really bothering me. Please fix that grammar. And it is red as the RED Knife. When it absorbed power from the Frozen Flame, which I believe is in the Mammon Machine, it transformed into a more durable and powerful form. Just like when the Pendent absorbed magic it became a different form, but then again it is more likely that it is because of the dream creatures, which give it a dream form?